[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

Ah great, a potato video....

ok I get the picture. I'll look at the log file next

Edit:

There's not enough in that log file. It's incomplete. It doesn't even show the loading and compiling of game parts.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Starwaster

[Velken]

Ah great, a potato video....

ok I get the picture. I'll look at the log file next

Edit:

There's not enough in that log file. It's incomplete. It doesn't even show the loading and compiling of game parts.

I'll try again, but it was the only log that I could find.

EDIT:

Link with new log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6o5kpehk8xak3ya/output_log%20now%20is%20correct%20and%20has%20bunch%20of%20stuff.zip?dl=0

Edited April 23, 2015 by Velken

[Starwaster]

I'll try again, but it was the only log that I could find.

EDIT:

Link with new log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6o5kpehk8xak3ya/output_log%20now%20is%20correct%20and%20has%20bunch%20of%20stuff.zip?dl=0

I don't see anything really obvious, no smoking gun. There is a null ref error on the camera when the scene loads up but that shouldn't blow up anything.

Other than that there's not a whole lot of reported errors.

I do see though two references to loading Deadly Reentry; one of them definitely doesn't belong

AssemblyLoader: Loading assembly at L:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\Plugins\DeadlyReentry.dll

Find that one and delete it.

DeadlyReentry v1.2.0.0 / v1.2.0.0

It's apparently a very old version....

I don't know if or how that could blow up your ship but it definitely doesn't belong there. Nothing belongs in the \Kerbal Space Program\Plugins\' folder. That's legacy stuff, used by very old and outdated mods. So delete anything in that folder leaving only the DeadlyReentry in the GameData folder. Then try again. Let me know how it goes.

[Velken]

Thank you.

I'll test it later when I have time.

I have no idea how that got there. (Blame Jebediah :v )

EDIT: Now it is working.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Velken

[Starwaster]

Thank you.

I'll test it later when I have time.

I have no idea how that got there. (Blame Jebediah :v )

Damn you Jeb!

[Svm420]

May be irrelevent after 1.0, but I found a way to fix PP srbs temps the same way you fix the rest of the heat production for engines. I added this line to the

EngineHeatAdjuster.cfg file in DR. Let me know if there are any problems with it. Haven't had any so far!

@MODULE[ProceduralSRB],*
{
@heatPerThrust *= #$/tempMult$
}

[futrtrubl]

May be irrelevent after 1.0, but I found a way to fix PP srbs temps the same way you fix the rest of the heat production for engines. I added this line to the

EngineHeatAdjuster.cfg file in DR. Let me know if there are any problems with it. Haven't had any so far!

@MODULE[ProceduralSRB],*
{
@heatPerThrust *= #$/tempMult$
}

Already fixed in the next version of PP.

[Starwaster]

Status Report Re: KSP 1.0

To summarize what you may (or may not) already know: KSP 1.0 has had a major overhaul in how thermodynamics are handled and Deadly Reentry is having a major overhaul to take advantage of these new systems.

Previous thermodynamics in the game were limited to an extremely simplistic system that handled temperature changes without any concept of heat. (as temperature and heat are two very different things)

The new thermodynamics system takes into account heat flux from four sources.

• Radiant heating (incoming: from solar and background; outgoing: based on part temperature)
  
• Conductive heating (from part to part until temperatures are equalized)
  
• Convective heating (Based on a part's velocity through an atmosphere and somewhat on the atmospheric temperature itself)
  
• Internal heating from other sources such as engines or drills, or any time heat needs to be shunted around where it doesn't fall under the first three categories.
  

That last one is where reentry heating comes from and doesn't really get started until you're supersonic and doesn't get really serious until you're hypersonic. All in all this is a fairly realistic system but is lacking in stock due to two factors:

1. Low velocity at reentry interface (this is an old issue that anyone who has been with DRE for awhile is familiar with: Velocities of incoming craft over Kerbin are approx 2-3 km/s which is low hypersonic and deceleration to subsonic occurs quickly and easily)
   
2. The concept of thermal mass has been introduced. This is a more realistic concept than what we had before: In order to raise temperature by 1 degree, an amount of incoming heat flux is required equal to the part's mass * thermal mass modifier * specific heat constant. (this also includes resource mass)
   

Thermal mass is a good and necessary addition but there's one problem with it: In Real Life, you shouldn't have to overcome the enter thermal mass before the skin is breached. Localized heating occurs swiftly and stays local because heat conduction throughout the entire mass occurs too slowly. If it weren't for this, I'm not even sure Deadly Reentry would still be necessary.

So what I've done is introduce the concept of skin temperature. Radiant and convective heating are now shifted to part's skin temperature. The amount of thermal mass in the skin is 10% of the part by default. (10% might actually be a little too high but lower than that might have been too deadly). These values are subject to change as the system becomes more robust. (specifically I'd like to introduce heating by location in the future but this requires some thought before implementation. The current system I've devised is more in keeping with with stock.

It would have been easier to just do a config based system where part's thermal mass was reduced across the board or convective heating was increased enough to make stock Kerbin reentries lethal, but that would have affected internal heating out of proportion to what it should be to the point of making things too difficult and the introduction of skin temperature is more natural. This way we can restrict part temperature to being internal heat with different consequences for parts based on function. (i.e. parts with fuel tanks might explode at lower temperatures due to their contents boiling off too quickly, or Kerbals dying or being incapacitated because their quarters overheated, etc etc)

The bulk of what needed to be done is already complete but had to be built from the ground up rather than being integrated with existing code. The old DRE code will require wholesale chunks ripped out of it because they're now obsolete. What I currently have could be dubbed 'Deadly Reentry Lite' and aside from some config file work and parts editing (for existing DRE parts).

I expect to do a basic release of this tonight with a more complete version later in the week. (deceleration damage, handling of animated parts like landing gear which is shielded when closed; unshielded when open. Etc etc)

[NathanKell]

Awesome!

[Starwaster]

One caveat though: I'm probably going to ditch the inflatable shield that DRE has always had.

It has an issue with its animation that is even worse in KSP 1.0

In the new aerodynamics / thermodynamics, parts automatically have their drag and radiative area changed when they animate. But it doesn't seem to recognize that inflatable shield has changed unless I quicksave / quickload in flight. (exiting to space center would do it too). It's not a new problem either. FAR didn't like that shield though nobody ever seemed to notice that there was an issue. (same issue really. It wouldn't update the shield's drag on the fly. Had to save/load)

So, unless there's some huge outcry to keep the shield (in which case I'd try to find a workaround using ModuleAnimation2Value) it's time for it to go away.

There are other animated deployable shields out there that work properly with KSP 1.0 instead of sticking with one that 1) won't increase its drag level as it inflates and 2) won't increase it's radiative area as it inflates. (either of those is bad for a reentry. Together is not fun and not survivable)

[ExavierMacbeth]

There are other animated deployable shields out there that work properly with KSP 1.0 instead of sticking with one that 1) won't increase its drag level as it inflates and 2) won't increase it's radiative area as it inflates. (either of those is bad for a reentry. Together is not fun and not survivable)

Do you happen to have any links to those other deployable heat shields? I been out of circulation for all of 0.90 but last time I looked all the mods that added more heat shields were all static plates. The inflatable within DRE directly was the only one I know about to protect my oddball drill rigs I would drop to planets. Mostly because I could never get full coverage with the plates properly. Would hate to lose it without knowing where to find an alternative

[biohazard15]

To quote...

Oh wait, I know what's happening here, it's adding the mass to the parent CoM.

This was deliberate on some parts such as undercarriage to prevent unwanted CoM issues

Just when you think that "fairings" is the biggest 1.0 fail...

I glad that DRE is still worked on.

[Starwaster]

Do you happen to have any links to those other deployable heat shields? I been out of circulation for all of 0.90 but last time I looked all the mods that added more heat shields were all static plates. The inflatable within DRE directly was the only one I know about to protect my oddball drill rigs I would drop to planets. Mostly because I could never get full coverage with the plates properly. Would hate to lose it without knowing where to find an alternative

Check the first post. It's right above the download link I think; says 'links to third party shields' or some such.

I can't speak as to their KSP 1.0 readiness state. If they use ablative at all then they won't ablate at all because they are configured for KSP 0.90 versions of DRE.

On the other hand, if their animations were done properly then KSP will automagically update drag area and radiative area so it's possible they might perform adequately as is. (i.e. they will increase drag and radiate more heat). They still will need tweaking to increase emission values and possibly thermal mass. When I push through the update tonight, there will be patches to make sure those shields function properly in 1.0

[ExavierMacbeth]

Ahh well I was apparently blind. Thanks

[futrtrubl]

Status Report Re: KSP 1.0

Does this mean that parts will need a new field for the max skin temperature or will you just base that on maxTemp? This could be important for hard shelled parts with delicate internals vs. parts with their bits exposed.

So conductive will be internal to internal while radiant and convective will be between the skin and environment? Conduction between skin and internal too I presume.

Do you know if stock models radiant heating to parts that are shielded from the air stream but within view of the plasma shock cone (if such a concept exists in stock)?

[Starwaster]

Does this mean that parts will need a new field for the max skin temperature or will you just base that on maxTemp? This could be important for hard shelled parts with delicate internals vs. parts with their bits exposed.

So conductive will be internal to internal while radiant and convective will be between the skin and environment? Conduction between skin and internal too I presume.

Do you know if stock models radiant heating to parts that are shielded from the air stream but within view of the plasma shock cone (if such a concept exists in stock)?

By default that's based on the part's temperature. Skin is tracked via a PartModule and it will be possible to set things like that independently of part temperature.

That means it will be possible to go through and change part maxTemp values to saner values but the skin would have higher values. For instance, shuttle parts could have their maxTemp set to 933.45 (the melting point of aluminum in Kelvin - all temperatures are now Kelvin) while the skin would have something like 1800 to represent something like shuttle tiles. It would have high emission values so it would radiate more heat.

Since it's supposed to be shuttle tiles it will have a low specific heat capacity. (lowered thermal mass) and it will conduct slowly. The way the system is currently set up, if the skinMaxTemp is exceeded it will just destroy the part, which is in keeping with the current system but I'm going to shift that to a damage based system and as the skin becomes more damaged, it will leak more heat through (higher conductance) and/or other dire consequences. Tonight's version will probably just explode the part.

Uhm yes to skin conducting to internal (skinTemperature to part.temperature)

outgoing radiant energy is attenuated by background radiation and nothing else. (though obviously if it's subject to convective heating, one will offset the other)

Parts can occlude one another from convective heating. That uses a cone based system instead of the raytraced system that DRE used in earlier versions. It's probably quite a bit faster than raytracing. On the other hand it also means that if you separated a part from your ship, you can't ride in its wake like you used to be able to do (you did know you could do that... right?)

[futrtrubl]

said stuff

So so awesome. Does this mean pyrolysis can now be based on skin temperature instead of shock temperature or is the skin still effectively too thick to model that?

_Geek mode_ Also ablation heat rejection can be properly based on enthalpies and heat capacities and mass flow, oh my...

Re: radiation, does background radiation include the effects of reentry?

And no, I did not know I could wake ride... oh well, not a huge loss.

[Starwaster]

So so awesome. Does this mean pyrolysis can now be based on skin temperature instead of shock temperature or is the skin still effectively too thick to model that?

_Geek mode_ Also ablation heat rejection can be properly based on enthalpies and heat capacities and mass flow, oh my...

Re: radiation, does background radiation include the effects of reentry?

And no, I did not know I could wake ride... oh well, not a huge loss.

Ablation rate has been using part temperature in DRE for awhile now. I forget how long.

But yes, now it will use skin temperature.

And yes, reentry increases the background thermal radiation.

[Svm420]

Awesome to hear squad made this mod so much more viable heating wise. can't wait for this to be updated along with RSS.

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

If heat modelling is so much more accurate now, will we need/get radiators for things like space stations and cryogenics (RealFuels)?

[Starwaster]

If heat modelling is so much more accurate now, will we need/get radiators for things like space stations and cryogenics (RealFuels)?

Real Fuels HAD some radiators and some radiator code but it was removed for 1.0 compatibility.

We're talking about replacing it with a more appropriate system that works WITH the current heat model. As to whether it will be in the next update for RF I do not know yet.

And, yes, I would say for cryogenics it will probably be important if you want to keep your fuels in the tanks instead of watching it float by as frozen crystals.

And excess internal heat could be important in other areas that we've talked about, so yeah radiators will be 'a thing'.

[cpx]

Can't wait to try out all those amazing features, thank you for this mod!

[Starwaster]

Currently trying to track down the source of a disgusting amount of heat whenever chutes are deployed. Literally just floating down at a sedate 5m/s from a peak altitude of 2km is enough to raise temperature by almost 1000 K....

[nedlee]

I did like the inflatable shield but yes it was buggy, in .90 it kept automatically inflated and once it blew open inside a cargo bay and tore apart my craft. Anyway, keep up the great work!

[Streetwind]

How do you reckon the skin thing will turn out in non-reentry situations?

Like, putting an ISRU refinery and drill down somewhere. Right now these parts have a giant heat output - they easily overpower an entire spacecraft's ability to radiate heat. In such a situation, if the future version of Deadly Reentry is installed, will the refinery be even more heat congested because the skin as an additional "layer" slows down the heat exchange of the craft with its surroundings? Will it be less congested, because the skin is able to radiate heat much better?

Things like LV-N engines also have issues surviving long burns now (and LV-N burns generally tend to be long). Depending on whether or not Deadly Reentry changes the ability of spacecraft to reject large amounts of internal heat, and whether that change is positive or negative, that could have gameplay balance implications. It could really nerf the LV-N hard, or be a giant boon to refinery stations... what do you think it's gonna be?

If heat modelling is so much more accurate now, will we need/get radiators for things like space stations and cryogenics (RealFuels)?

Near Future Electrical has always shipped radiators for its fission reactors, and they will indeed be fully compatible with the new thermodynamics once the mod updates. They should in fact be active heatsinks, even (though I'm not privy to the implementation details, that's up to Nertea). Who knows, they might offer what you're looking for - though it'll be a few more days until the Near Future suite updates.