Starwaster

[1.8.1] Deadly Reentry v7.7.4 The Maat Edition, Nov 6th, 2019

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1 hour ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Yes, the cockpit with pretty poor thermal properties^^

Yes, it is a modded techtree (Probes before Crew) and stock scaling.
The only update I can find is located in the Hypersonic Flight node, is that the one you're talkin about? The part itself also says that an update will be available at some point. Unfortunately, this bug prevents me to see the actual node name in the part description but the #autoloc key fits to the hypersonic flight node.

Even though the cockpit is not space rated, I was kinda surprised that it will heat up at this altitude while flying <1500m/s...there is not much atmosphere left up there. (But I also don't know much about the physics of a reentry/air compression in flight)

But since you don't seem to be surprised, I guess this is how it should work?

This is how it should work given that stock Kerbin has a typical reentry speed 3x lower than real life reentry speeds. So the equations have a lot of scalars and factors that are several times higher than they would be when simulating a planet the size of Earth. In some respects, RSS has easier thermodynamics.... IMO. Certainly easier ascents.

And, yes, the upgrade is the hypersonic one. As long as that node is available in your modded tree then you'll be able to access it.

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This seems to work wonderfully in 1.6.1 I've lost a couple of missions to improper reentry angles...Going to take some re-getting used to.

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18 hours ago, Taki117 said:

This seems to work wonderfully in 1.6.1 I've lost a couple of missions to improper reentry angles...Going to take some re-getting used to.

I, too, am glad that DRE is working well, but I this post made laugh: "Everything is wonderful, two spacecraft have been destroyed!"

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Posted (edited)

Hi @Starwaster , I recently removed deadly reentry from an install, but I can't find the stock heatshields anymore, any idea about it? Also, as I'm so used to this mod, that I can't remember if it actually remove the stock heatshields parts or not, does it?

Thanks

Edit: sorry nvm, Ven'sPart Revamp was the culprit!

 

Edited by kurgut

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2 hours ago, kurgut said:

Hi @Starwaster , I recently removed deadly reentry from an install, but I can't find the stock heatshields anymore, any idea about it? Also, as I'm so used to this mod, that I can't remember if it actually remove the stock heatshields parts or not, does it?

Thanks

Edit: sorry nvm, Ven'sPart Revamp was the culprit!

 

It usually is

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@Starwaster@cybutek

I've been using this with no problems in 1.6.1 for a while, but now all of a sudden I am getting an extra dialogue box on start up that says:

"Incompatible Mods Detected
Some mods may be incompatible with this version of KSP. Features may be broken or disabled. Please check for updates to the listed mods.

These mods are compatible with 1.6.1:
DeadlyReentry"

I've tried removing all URL references to github from the version file, changing the version number for KSP, KSP MIN and KSP MAX to 1.6.1 and also straight up deleting the version file, all to no avail. I get that this dialogue itself is harmless and doesn't affect game play, but it is a separate dialogue from the KSP-AVC issue monitor. I don't want to have to close two separate windows, plus the Memgraph window, every time KSP starts. How do I stop this annoying dialogue from telling me information I already know?
 

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3 hours ago, Errol said:

@Starwaster@cybutek

I've been using this with no problems in 1.6.1 for a while, but now all of a sudden I am getting an extra dialogue box on start up that says:

"Incompatible Mods Detected
Some mods may be incompatible with this version of KSP. Features may be broken or disabled. Please check for updates to the listed mods.

These mods are compatible with 1.6.1:
DeadlyReentry"

I've tried removing all URL references to github from the version file, changing the version number for KSP, KSP MIN and KSP MAX to 1.6.1 and also straight up deleting the version file, all to no avail. I get that this dialogue itself is harmless and doesn't affect game play, but it is a separate dialogue from the KSP-AVC issue monitor. I don't want to have to close two separate windows, plus the Memgraph window, every time KSP starts. How do I stop this annoying dialogue from telling me information I already know?
 

Sounds like it’s the version checker which is common code used by a variety of mods including DRE and all present in a common window. The version checking is hard coded and requires a minor edit and recompile. 

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Posted (edited)

Hi Im new user of this mod. is it still possible even to air break from mon back to kerb without using ton of delta V to slow down  ? I have probe with hear shield and it melts no matter how gently I reenter at speed 3000. 

... .... 

Iv managed to get back from mon but took 5 extra orbits and about 150 extra delta v to slow down during airobreaking.  + I did used engine instead of heat shield as shield melted down more easy than Science.Jr under it.

Not sure if this is realistic but it aint very fun. On the other side when I played unmoded heat shields nearly never melted no matter what and that was  quite boring as well. 

Edited by Kozzy

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2 hours ago, Kozzy said:

Hi Im new user of this mod. is it still possible even to air break from mon back to kerb without using ton of delta V to slow down  ? I have probe with hear shield and it melts no matter how gently I reenter at speed 3000. 

... .... 

Iv managed to get back from mon but took 5 extra orbits and about 150 extra delta v to slow down during airobreaking.  + I did used engine instead of heat shield as shield melted down more easy than Science.Jr under it.

Not sure if this is realistic but it aint very fun. On the other side when I played unmoded heat shields nearly never melted no matter what and that was  quite boring as well. 

Sounds like you're not telling me something important here.... What shield are you using that's melting and how steep is your reentry? If it's too shallow then your shield can cook off before you've slowed down enough. Shallow meaning that your pe is too high up in the atmosphere.

Basically, shallow reentry will result in lower peak heat flux but longer heat load. Steep reentries will have higher peak heat flux but shorter heat load (also higher g-force which can be a problem for crewed missions). If it's too shallow you may not have enough heat shield to last. What it sounds like is it might be too shallow and you need to aim deeper in the atmosphere.

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Im using 1.25 shield with 100 ablative shielding (I think its from some mod) under Science Jr.  at Pe 54K ship breaks and does not even slow down enough to land. Ap was under moon. (I was returning from moon) and speed bit abowe 3000.

I was able to do it with 57K Pe and 4-5 extra orbits. On last orbit shield ablator was gone but Science Jr. was able to hold. 

 

But true is I have not even considered using steeper entry.   Reason for fail was always that ablator cooked very fast so maybe if I enter more quickly it will have no time to burn but It does seems it will burn faster.

:) well mod says its deadly but either im doing it wrong or its bit too much deadly for me. Good work and thanks for the mod btw Im sure you have to be clever person to be able to do programming and understand reentry physics at same time.  

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19 hours ago, Kozzy said:

Im using 1.25 shield with 100 ablative shielding (I think its from some mod) under Science Jr.  at Pe 54K ship breaks and does not even slow down enough to land. Ap was under moon. (I was returning from moon) and speed bit abowe 3000.

I was able to do it with 57K Pe and 4-5 extra orbits. On last orbit shield ablator was gone but Science Jr. was able to hold. 

 

But true is I have not even considered using steeper entry.   Reason for fail was always that ablator cooked very fast so maybe if I enter more quickly it will have no time to burn but It does seems it will burn faster.

:) well mod says its deadly but either im doing it wrong or its bit too much deadly for me. Good work and thanks for the mod btw Im sure you have to be clever person to be able to do programming and understand reentry physics at same time.  

Steep reentry means getting down to the lower atmosphere faster where you'll get more drag. Make it 30 pe and you should have 35-ish of your heat shield left but that depends on where that heat shield came from. It's from some mod you said? WHAT mod?

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not sure how to tell  which  mod is which part from but I made bit more test with stock shield and that one seems to work better it has 200 abl.  Im still not very  confident that  I can return my kerbals or satelites using only airobreaking. I let you know when I play few more returns.

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Posted (edited)

I think i managed to learn now how to reenter I have to use stock heat shields that was one problem second I cant use service bays. Im facing  problems that any service bays like modules breaks during reentry if I go as you suggested with bit stepper angle even that they are behind shields.  Other ship parts wont even start heating and service bays explode few seconds after extended solar panels.  I tried with "service bay 1.25" and mod "universal storage tapered fairing"

But Again it is possibly something im not used to from stock old versions of game and not imbalance my reentry ship is bit longer and Im suspecting that might cause upper bits to heat more 

Edited by Kozzy

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Kozzy said:

I think i managed to learn now how to reenter I have to use stock heat shields that was one problem second I cant use service bays. Im facing  problems that any service bays like modules breaks during reentry if I go as you suggested with bit stepper angle even that they are behind shields.  Other ship parts wont even start heating and service bays explode few seconds after extended solar panels.  I tried with "service bay 1.25" and mod "universal storage tapered fairing"

But Again it is possibly something im not used to from stock old versions of game and not imbalance my reentry ship is bit longer and Im suspecting that might cause upper bits to heat more 

With Deadly Reentry, all unshielded parts are much more susceptible to overheating, and heat shields that are the same size as the parts you are trying to protect are not very good at protecting them. With stock aerodynamics you have to have absolutely zero angle of attack/sideslip or things like the 1.25m science part or service bay will be exposed. Cylindrical parts will have much greater exposure than tapered parts. With FAR installed parts behind the shield can receive heating even with zero angle of attack. (which is normal and realistic behavior. It is unrealistic to expect that a heat shield the same size as the parts behind it can provide adequate protection). The heat shield should be larger than the things it is protecting. (and should have a fairing giving those parts coverage as well)

Edited by Starwaster

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Posted (edited)

thanks for re. Tech tree is not very balanced to take this into consideration I got only same heat shields diameters as my body parts witch is make it bit tricky. I need to save some delta v for return to kerb every time if I cary more stuff than back.

science jr. is able to hold reasonably but service bays burn nearly as fast as solar panels. I keep testing it but I would consider changing service bay temps bit back towards default. (I  dont use FAR).

...

I got service bay right behind heat shield returning from orbit Ap 7mil meters  Pe 50Km ... service bay melts down .... with  Pe 52Km service bay makes it but it would take about 10 orbits to fully land. If i try any stepper dive in than 51Km service service bay explodes. Now since I play carrier I got no bigger heat shields. 

... ok I did try 25 28 30 33 40 Km  Conclusion is there  no chance for service bay to return with 1.25 heat shield  without spending like 300 dV extra. I have not tested yet using extra larger heat shied. But that would make whole ship look ridiculous and not sure if this is where this mod aims. Some other ship structural components are very week as well. 

Im leaning toward opinion  that service bay temperatures are probably too much making them useless. Maybe its realistic  and intended I dont know but its does not goes together with other components  and tech tree.  Its just my impression after couple of tests. 

one more thing service bay should withstand temp.  1450K same size fuel tank should be able  hold only 1000K  according tool tip. yet service bay explodes when I place it behind heat shield and fuel tank is fine on same place. It looks as bad tool tip or bug to me.

 

Edited by Kozzy

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After number of tests. Im 90% positive service bays reaction weels  and similar components are bugged or misconfigured. I made reentry using different components attached right behind stock 1.25 heat shield and everything survives reasonably well  even batteries attached around the science jr but 1.25 service bay that has description that its special  designed to protect components  against heat  blows up. 

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12 hours ago, Kozzy said:

After number of tests. Im 90% positive service bays reaction weels  and similar components are bugged or misconfigured. I made reentry using different components attached right behind stock 1.25 heat shield and everything survives reasonably well  even batteries attached around the science jr but 1.25 service bay that has description that its special  designed to protect components  against heat  blows up. 

No bug. Regardless of Squad's description of the part I don't see any reason to treat it as anything other than a service module. It's just a structural component that can contain other parts.

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For some reason it accumulates more heat than other parts that have even lover temperature tolerance in tool tip and that might make it behave seemingly imbalanced compared to other parts. Maybe has  tiny  larger diameter than shields I dont know.  

Im not kerbal vet. but wasn't idea of this bay to hide components like antennas or goo container  inside it to protect them from reentry ? And if I agree argument that its not realistic for 1.2 parts being protected behind 1.2 shield, than all structural components should explode similar way not just service bays no ? But science jr. or fuel tanks or even pods that have 0 abl. can survive reentry just fine with shields. Service bay melts more easy than batteries or ladders wich are completely sticking outside of the shields. 

It melts nearly as fast as unprotected antennas or solar panels. I find that fishy and hard to believe  its design choice. 

I did unmounted test using only  kerbal eng heat tab and service bay takes bit more heat than other parts in the stock game as well but since its threshold is so high it does not matters but with this mods it makes any similar component like bays useless unless they are 100% protected from reentry heat.  

 

But if answer is its by design I take it as I got no idea what is realistic or not.   Game balance and logic wise I would say that bay should hold at least similar way as science jr. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm running a game with DR and FAR, and doing a reentry with a NearFuture Proteus module and a DR 1.25 heatshield on the bottom, with initial parameters of like 75km apoapsis and a 65km periapsis will end up burning up the pod. The shield still has ablator, but heat seems to bleed through it and exploding the pod, killing the pilot and passenger on a *very* sensitive mission for my space program, but regardless it's not the first time that I'm getting heat seemingly going through the shield (particularly stuff exploding inside the cargo bay between the pod and shield). I'm not getting what I'm doing wrong, should I put a decoupler between shield and pod? Radiators? Is there a recommended configuration with FAR?

EDIT: Just unlocked the module, it has a 1190K max operational temperature, 1020K max skin temperature. I dunno if any of the tech tree mods is to blame for it being below expected parameters for DR?

Edited by Ottomic

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On 4/6/2019 at 10:53 PM, Ottomic said:

I'm running a game with DR and FAR, and doing a reentry with a NearFuture Proteus module and a DR 1.25 heatshield on the bottom, with initial parameters of like 75km apoapsis and a 65km periapsis will end up burning up the pod. The shield still has ablator, but heat seems to bleed through it and exploding the pod, killing the pilot and passenger on a *very* sensitive mission for my space program, but regardless it's not the first time that I'm getting heat seemingly going through the shield (particularly stuff exploding inside the cargo bay between the pod and shield). I'm not getting what I'm doing wrong, should I put a decoupler between shield and pod? Radiators? Is there a recommended configuration with FAR?

EDIT: Just unlocked the module, it has a 1190K max operational temperature, 1020K max skin temperature. I dunno if any of the tech tree mods is to blame for it being below expected parameters for DR?

I don't think your shield is leaking enough heat for that to be the issue. FAR is probably causing convective heating of the pod. It will not be fully occluded like in stock. (and depending on its shape may not be fully occluded even in stock)

That skin max temp means you're probably seeing hull damage when skin temp reaches 867 assuming default parameters (damage starts at 85% of max temp; 1020 x 0.85 = 867). Since DR has no configs for that part then you have to assume defaults are in play.

Also, see recent posts on the subject of cargo bays and small 1.25 heat shields. It sounds like you're describing a similar craft. Something a bit long with with low temperature parts clipping into the reentry wake? Again, don't expect that shield to occlude very well if it's about the same size as the parts you're trying to protect. 

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It's not very clear which parts are modified with DR... only heatshield ??

Besides, is DR changing the behaviour of parts from other mods (nearfuture, USI, etc) ?

Thanks !

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On 4/14/2019 at 5:25 PM, chateaudav said:

It's not very clear which parts are modified with DR... only heatshield ??

Besides, is DR changing the behaviour of parts from other mods (nearfuture, USI, etc) ?

Thanks !

Any part which use the stock heat shield module (ModuleHeatShield) is converted over to the DR version which alters shield characteristics when the shield is depleted.

The inflatable heat shield is changed (thermal characteristics to match real world equivalent, mass reduced and smaller/larger versions added)

Every single part is gone through to make sure it max temp and other thermal characteristics are realistic and not overpowered. This is done through custom patches in the DR config files and during runtime when the game first starts up for those parts which lack specific DR patches. At that time if the max temp exceeds a specified value then it is cut in half. If it still exceeds the value then it is capped at the specified value (1523.15 by default). Heat shields are exempted as are any parts which have leaveTemp = true in their config. (parts designated as Realism Overhaul parts are also exempted)

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On 4/25/2019 at 12:02 PM, Nightside said:

Seems to be working as expected in 1.7 (with minimal testing).

Thanks for all you do @Starwaster!

I would be pretty surprised if it didn't; that's why I took the compatibility restrictions out so that it only warns the player of the version mismatch instead of disabling itself.

I'll try to get some updates out soon; things have been hectic around here since that big storm blew through here and we lost power. Not DURING the storm mind you. We lost power AFTER the storm... and it didn't just go out, it cycled on and off rapidly several times a second. It somehow forced the modem to reset itself to factory defaults which meant it had to be set back up with CenturyLink like a new modem only it wasn't being recognized so they had to send us a new modem. And just today we realized the refrigerator wasn't cooling properly so now we have to get a new refrigerator which is mucho $$$.

(you know... I thought that chicken tasted a little funny last night...)

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1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I would be pretty surprised if it didn't; that's why I took the compatibility restrictions out so that it only warns the player of the version mismatch instead of disabling itself.

I'll try to get some updates out soon; things have been hectic around here since that big storm blew through here and we lost power. Not DURING the storm mind you. We lost power AFTER the storm... and it didn't just go out, it cycled on and off rapidly several times a second. It somehow forced the modem to reset itself to factory defaults which meant it had to be set back up with CenturyLink like a new modem only it wasn't being recognized so they had to send us a new modem. And just today we realized the refrigerator wasn't cooling properly so now we have to get a new refrigerator which is mucho $$$.

(you know... I thought that chicken tasted a little funny last night...)

Time to break out that methane fuel cell.

...oops wrong mod.

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