The greatest (engineering) achievement of mankind

[Seret]

I am not prone to taking false assumptions, though I will gladly resort to a fight in PM.

Now, the population density for NYC is 27K per Sq Mile.

The density for Baghdad is less.

I still don't quite follow your point that you can directly equate population density to civilian casualties in wartime. There are too many variables. What type and intensity of conflict? How mobile are the populations? How much warning of attack? What is the tactical situation?

You'd get far more casualties in a small city that was unexpectedly surrounded and indiscriminately shelled than you would in larger city wih a low-intensity conflict slowly moving towards its outskirts. Blanket statements about complex situations like this are meaningless.

I'm a bit concerned that your willingness to inflict misery on the developing world is based more on jingoism than some kind of elitist desire to spare more "valuable" humans. Would you rather see a major disaster in a poor area of the US (New Orleans again? Detroit?) than in a "valuable" population centre such as Tokyo or Berlin?

[Mr Shifty]

I am not prone to taking false assumptions, though I will gladly resort to a fight in PM.

Now, the population density for NYC is 27K per Sq Mile.

The density for Baghdad is less.

The source I used gave population density for metro area. If we're talking just cities, Baghdad has something like 5 million residents in 79 square miles, which gives a population density of about 63,000/mi².

[Nibb31]

The loss of 10,000 educated and diverse peoples is a greater blow to the human race than the loss of 50,000 uneducated and nondiverse people.

So how do you measure that exactly? Is a Texan redneck more valuable than an Iranian scientist? Is a foreign political leader more valuable than a US factory worker? Is a Christian more valuable than a Muslim or a white worth more than a black? Is a Afghani kid less valuable than an American kid? Is a North Korean teacher less valuable than a NYC trader? Do you look at a sick kid's grades before deciding which one get's a kidney transplant? Can you be sure that one of those uneducated foreigners won't give birth to a future Nobel prize winner or that the starving kid in Africa might grow up to invent the Warp drive?

Who are you to set a scale of values of human life? A human being is a human being. Whenever you kill one, whether he's an innocent child, a terrorist, or a brain surgeon, not only do you cause the same suffering for the person and for his/her loved ones, but you also destroy any contribution that person might have had to make this World a better place.

[LaydeeDem]

I'm going with condoms. Boy would we be many without those...We'd have litterally screwed ourselves over

Alternatively, the ISS.

Ahahaha. Now that you mention it, you're right! Amazing how a really simple piece of rubber saves us from a really complex problem: overpopulation.

As for something more in line with what others are saying, the Saturn V. The SLS and the Shuttle don't have anything on the amazing Saturn V.

This is Skylab (Saturn) next to the ISS (Shuttle):

Imagine where we could have been had we kept funding the Saturn V.

[Camacha]

I am not prone to taking false assumptions, though I will gladly resort to a fight in PM.

Please keep your fights, nuclear or not, out of this topic. It is clear your opinion is not shared by others in this topic and there is a distinct lack of hard facts to go on, so this will not end anywhere good for anyone.

Back to celebrating the engineering and creating spirit of mankind.

[Camacha]

As for something more in line with what others are saying, the Saturn V. The SLS and the Shuttle don't have anything on the amazing Saturn V.

[...]

Imagine where we could have been had we kept funding the Saturn V.

These two comments combined are spot on. Saturn V was not affordable in any long run. It was a sprint, a marathon would have cost a number of arms and a number of legs.

Of course, if the US would refrain from its hobby of fighting wars and proxy wars money would not be an object, as just one year of war/'defense' has cost more than NASA ever spent.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Camacha

[Warhorse]

Of course, if the US would refrain from its hobby of fighting wars and proxy wars money would not be an object, as just one year of war/'defense' has cost more than NASA ever spent.

Of course, if the entire bloody western world would refrain from running for the shelter of Uncle Sam's coattails every time some angry Third World village idiot said "boo", America might be able to give up that hobby. Alternatively, if America could get control of its own entitlement spending, it could easily afford a world-beating military AND a ginormous space program. But I guess those options made too much sense, or something ...

[Camacha]

Let's get this topic on track with some good old fashioned non-patriotic human endeavors. I think the French pulled of some pretty nifty engineering with this one. Maybe not the greatest, but pretty great nonetheless. It is the Millau Viaduct.

[NASAFanboy]

Let's get this topic on track with some good old fashioned non-patriotic human endeavors. I think the French pulled of some pretty nifty engineering with this one. Maybe not the greatest, but pretty great nonetheless. It is the Millau Viaduct.

I like. It's that type of marvel that is so well built, each picture foot looks like concept art for something in 2050.

[Payload]

Ha that bridge reminds me of an episode of Junk Yard Mega Wars. The goal was to build scrapheap airplanes.

The Americans built a copy of the Wright Flyer. Looked cool, flew like crap.

The British built a plywood bi-plane that could have flown anywhere. Indeed it did make several circuits around the field at greater than 200ft.

The French built a beautiful artisan mid wing with metal trim Etc. It barely got off the ground, but it was the best looking airplane by far.

Best episode ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pH09RkvuFw

Edited October 26, 2013 by Payload

[Seret]

I think the French pulled of some pretty nifty engineering with this one.

I've driven over that, tis lovely. Designed by a Brit, built by the French.

[PakledHostage]

Two of the greatest engineering achievements captured in the same video:

And just for fun (kids, don't try this at home!):

Edited October 26, 2013 by PakledHostage
spelling

[RogueMason]

I'm going to have to say Clockwork.

Through a boggling series of extremely precisely and accurately made components, we've been able to do a considerable number of important things:

• Create the first computers and calculators, such as the Difference and Analytical Engines.
  
• Keep a mostly accurate track of the time as it passes.
  
• Develop orreries.
  
• Advance photography through the use of the technology in leaf shutters.
  

Clockwork, to me, is a beautiful technology. Every component had to be manufactured with incredible precision and accuracy so that the devices these components were being made for would work. There is also the fact that we were able to develop this technology many centuries ago; the Greeks made the Antikythera mechanism to calculate astronomical positions, and it apparently worked incredibly well.

However, I also look at clockwork and think there's something incredibly elegant and artful about it, and my favourite applications are definitely pocket watches and orreries. The ticking and clicking of the gears, cogs, and springs, all moving about minding their own business... there's something incredibly relaxing about it, to me.

I doubt that, without clockwork, we would not be where we are today. I'm not sure if anyone agrees, but oh well, it's my opinion

[ecat]

Relative achievement: Bacon.

Hear me out on this one...

One day following a devastating forest fire a small group of starving, half dead early humans were hurriedly making their way across the still smouldering forest remains. On the breeze there suddenly came an aroma none had ever experienced before, pleasant and strong, strong enough for even the poorly developed human sense of smell to detect. The charred forest was deserted of all other wildlife allowing the small group to rapidly locate the area from which the aroma emanated. The remains of an animal lay unspoilt amidst what was once a small clearing, charred but not totally carbonised. Starving as the group were they set about the remains and oh so delicious they were.

The rest of that day was spent searching the embers for other charred but not carbonised remains, especially those of the pig like creature they first discovered. They spent the rest of their lives actively searching for forest fires, learning eventually that a tree branch could be used to carry a flame, that a flaming branch could be used to start a fire wherever they wanted and that a small pile of branches could preserve the flame for days. Till their dying days none ever forgot the taste of that first charred animal, father of fire, mother of cooking, that most wondrous of foods, bacon.

Edited October 28, 2013 by ecat

[Kilmeister]

I'm going to go with Panama Canal too. Moving that much earth and building those massive locks 100 years ago is pretty damn impressive. The new locks are still impressive, but not so much now as we have modern excavation and construction methods. The only real major feat is that they are building the 2nd set of locks without disrupting full functionality of the existing waterway.

Although my opinion may be slightly biased as I grew up in the Panama Canal Zone.

[Accelerando]

As both a relative and absolute example  symbolism. Without the ability to generate references to real-life objects and to relate intangible concepts in terms of abstract symbols, we would not have spoken or written language, numbers, literature, poetry, or mathematics, and without those we would not have the ability to organize complex thoughts into philosophy or pass on the blueprints for any sort of complex machine or gargantuan monolith.

[Brotoro]

"Engineering: The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design, manufacture, and operation of efficient and economical structures, machines, processes, and systems."

I think some of the things listed in this thread are not examples of engineering.

[brienne]

Electricity and petroleum massive use.

What can you do without? Just imagine you don't have any tomorrow morning...

Apollo, Manhattan project,... so complex projects. But greatest achievements of mankind? Maybe.

Nuke bombs avoid WW3, for the moment.