[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[NathanKell]

17 hours ago, Guswut said:

@NathanKell, are the orbital colors for the following bodies left unset (all values at 1.0) by design, or are they not configured by design (body name (parent body for reference))?:

• Moon (Earth)
• Dione (Saturn)
• Enceladus (Saturn)
• Iapetus (Saturn)
• Mimas (Saturn)
• Rhea (Saturn)
• Tethys (Saturn)
• Triton (Neptune)

In the case of the Moon, I assume this is the case as the values appeared to be identical to the other bodies, but in the case of the latter I assume they were just not configured by whomever set up these bodies.

I've put together some orbital colors using an estimation of the planets via a screenshot half in the light. I'm not entirely sure how to use GitHub and set up a pull request, so before I go through and figure that out I'd like to see if these changes would be wanted.

Also, does RSS have a DOE (Distant Object Enhancement) file for compatibility? There was one in the RSS-Expansion mod, but I cannot find one in the RealSolarSystem folder.

 

Thanks!

The Saturnian moons were made by someone who cloned the (Earth's) Moon. We've been fixing bits that never got changed from Moon ever since.

The inclinations are also screwed in RSS itself for those non-Titan moons of Saturn.

@ebigunso Use Mechjeb->Launch into plane of target to get the plane right. However, if you want to launch to rendezvous you will need to fly the launch, revert, and then use MJ's launch to rendezvous. The time to orbit and phase angle from start will differ for each LV/payload combo, so there is no one answer.

[ebigunso]

@NathanKell

Thank you. But fully automated launches are not what I'm looking for really. Also I just need to know "roughly" when I should be launching, so I just need to know when my target vehicle comes to a certain angle behind the launch site, when the launch site is below the target orbit. With that "certain angle" varying with target orbit altitude.

If I punch in the numbers for how long the launch takes, target orbit altitude, current target position, and launch site latitude then I should be able to figure out when I should launch right?

If there is some sort of calculator that can do this sort of calculation, that would be nice.

How does real rocket scientists figure out these sort of things anyways?

Edited August 8, 2016 by ebigunso

[Jacke]

7 hours ago, ebigunso said:

@NathanKell

Thank you. But fully automated launches are not what I'm looking for really. Also I just need to know "roughly" when I should be launching, so I just need to know when my target vehicle comes to a certain angle behind the launch site, when the launch site is below the target orbit. With that "certain angle" varying with target orbit altitude.

If I punch in the numbers for how long the launch takes, target orbit altitude, current target position, and launch site latitude then I should be able to figure out when I should launch right?

If there is some sort of calculator that can do this sort of calculation, that would be nice.

How does real rocket scientists figure out these sort of things anyways?

By simulating the 2nd vehicle launch and noting how long it takes to get into orbit and at what phase angle away from the launch site.  Adjust for the position of the target vehicle to determine when to launch.  Done exactly enough, you can do 1st orbit rendezvous and docking, as done on Gemini 11.  Note that Gemini 11 had about a 2-second launch window to get this sort of precision.  I've pulled off 1.5 orbit rendezvous and docking over stock Kerbin.

[Starwaster]

@ebigunso You could take the easy way out like me and launch into a lower orbit in the same plane then hohmanns transfer to the station. 

[ebigunso]

7 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@ebigunso You could take the easy way out like me and launch into a lower orbit in the same plane then hohmanns transfer to the station. 

That would do, but for crewed transfer vehicles I would still need some kind of precision launch so not to run out of life support.

Oh well, I guess I have to do this by hand.

Note how much it takes to go from one orbit plane crossing to the next, then the target's orbital period, get the amount of time for it to get to the desired orbit location from it's current true anomaly for the two windows of launch, then see when a 24h time span would come together with the orbital period multiplied + the initial movement time I got from the step before.

UGHHHHHHH so many steps!!!!!

Why hasn't anyone come up with a calculator for this yet

[Aelfhe1m]

41 minutes ago, ebigunso said:

That would do, but for crewed transfer vehicles I would still need some kind of precision launch so not to run out of life support.

Typically I've not found this to be too much of a concern provided you get the initial plane close enough.

Take for example a space station orbiting Earth at 400 km altitude (comparable to ISS) and a supply vessel launching to an initial chasing orbit of 200 km. The synodic period of the two orbits is approximately 1.4 days so even in the worst case scenario - where you launched into orbit just ahead of the station's position in its orbit - a rendezvous should need no more than 2 days life support (with a generous margin).

Usually it's not too difficult to put the supply vessel within a quarter orbit behind the station which cuts down the time to rendezvous to less than 10 hours. 

[ebigunso]

Interesting. Maybe I'm so concerned about this just because I'm still not too far into manned tech with RP-0.

I'll try playing a bit more to see.

[Guswut]

19 hours ago, NathanKell said:

The Saturnian moons were made by someone who cloned the (Earth's) Moon. We've been fixing bits that never got changed from Moon ever since.

The inclinations are also screwed in RSS itself for those non-Titan moons of Saturn.

Understood. I went ahead and re-ran the data on those moons, as well as Triton.

I updated the orbital data, and tried to make a pull request for the updates. I've never used github before so I doubt I did it correctly.

If I did in fact screw it up, I can toss up the files here, or I can try again if I know what went wrong.

Thanks!

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, ebigunso said:

That would do, but for crewed transfer vehicles I would still need some kind of precision launch so not to run out of life support.

Oh well, I guess I have to do this by hand.

Note how much it takes to go from one orbit plane crossing to the next, then the target's orbital period, get the amount of time for it to get to the desired orbit location from it's current true anomaly for the two windows of launch, then see when a 24h time span would come together with the orbital period multiplied + the initial movement time I got from the step before.

UGHHHHHHH so many steps!!!!!

Why hasn't anyone come up with a calculator for this yet

Because orbital transfer is a complex process with many routes for two arbitrary initial and final orbits.  You get to learn a few rules-of-thumb, do broad delta-V and time estimates, and make sure you have enough reserves to carry out the transfer.  Often, you want to design a sequence of flights to minimize the complexity of orbital transfers, like launching into the plane of a target vessel and arranging the initial orbital of the 2nd active vessel to best and most quickly rendezvous and dock with the target.

Hohmann transfers are the minimum delta-V transfer for most cases of changing major axis and eccentricity, although if the ratio of initial to final major axis is greater than 11.94, there will be bi-elliptical transfers with less delta-V.  But both transfers take a long time and with any sort of life-support or electricity storage requirements, designing for a fast transfer may produce a lower-mass spacecraft.  Changing orbital planes is very delta-V expensive, but is less so at greater distances from the primary.  In BTSM in the stock Kerbin system, I would often launch Mun polar orbiters to get all biomes.  Using Precise Node, I could adjust the initial maneuver node to go directly into a polar pass over Mun.  However, I could often use less delta-V by aiming first for an equatorial pass, then at a high Kerbin altitude when the spacecraft was at a lower speed doing a mid-course correction to go for the polar pass.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Jacke

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, ebigunso said:

Why hasn't anyone come up with a calculator for this yet

Even if someone did, you would have to fly a pretty precise ascent profile. Not just at a particular time and target altitude but a specific turn rate. To put it another way, your down range distance upon reaching your target altitude would also need to be the right distance to put you near your target. 

There's a reason nobody flies rockets manually IRL. 

[Iso-Polaris]

I wonder where are the moons of Uranus

[cubinator]

Hey @NathanKell, is there a way I can get rid of the huge circle of ice around Antarctica, or would it mess up the north pole too? I'd like to know what causes it, and if the settings for the two ice caps can be manipulated separately in order to make an awesome realism mod even more realistic. Thanks!

[Aelfhe1m]

1 hour ago, cubinator said:

Hey @NathanKell, is there a way I can get rid of the huge circle of ice around Antarctica, or would it mess up the north pole too? I'd like to know what causes it, and if the settings for the two ice caps can be manipulated separately in order to make an awesome realism mod even more realistic. Thanks!

Looks about right to me - at least for an October maximal sea ice extent.  NASA diagram, video showing sea ice changes Mar - Sep 2014

[cubinator]

24 minutes ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Looks about right to me - at least for an October maximal sea ice extent.  NASA diagram, video showing sea ice changes Mar - Sep 2014

Sea ice levels appear to be quite variable over the course of a year. I would prefer to have less ice there, especially since it's way too much ice for summer and during winter when it is supposed to be icy I can't see it anyways because it's in constant shadow.

Edited August 9, 2016 by cubinator

[FierySwordswoman]

Is there any current way to add additional solar systems while using this as a base?

-Have the Kerbol system and maybe some other star system mods (if they exist) reachable via interstellar travel?

Edited August 12, 2016 by FierySwordswoman

[antilochus]

Phobos inclination - in-game it's 36 degrees to Martian equator, wikipedia indicates inclination is 1.1 degrees. Not a huge deal, because it's Phobos, and practically higher inclinations are useful for having more landing options on Mars. Just curious if there was any rationale for this.

Edit: same question for Deimos.

Edited August 15, 2016 by antilochus

[Starwaster]

1 minute ago, antilochus said:

Phobos inclination - in-game it's 36 degrees to Martian equator, wikipedia indicates inclination is 1.1 degrees. Not a huge deal, because it's Phobos, and practically higher inclinations are useful for having more landing options on Mars. Just curious if there was any rationale for this.

Edit: same question for Deimos.

It ties into the method used for simulating axial tilt. Due to KSP limitations, we can't give each planet its own custom axial tilt. In fact if you look at Mars you will notice it has no axial tilt. Its equator is in the wrong place

That's the case with all of the other planets, so axial tilt is simulated by  playing with orbital inclinations. Individually, you will find many such cases (all of them really) where the individual inclinations look wrong but are actually simulating axial tilt with Earth as the primary reference point. Compare their relative inclinations to THAT and what the relative tilts would have been and you'll find it makes more sense.

[antilochus]

Got it, thanks! Just want to make sure it wasn't unintentional.

[Spran]

Hi, i have a problem with RSS. When i start up my KSP it runs like normal, loading in all the textures and models etc.

But when it gets to the part where you see the Little solar system rotating, it keeps on loading for ever.

I have tried waiting two hours, but it still isn't done loading. Any solution to this problem?

[raxo2222]

1 minute ago, Spran said:

Hi, i have a problem with RSS. When i start up my KSP it runs like normal, loading in all the textures and models etc.

But when it gets to the part where you see the Little solar system rotating, it keeps on loading for ever.

I have tried waiting two hours, but it still isn't done loading. Any solution to this problem?

Sounds like install went horribly wrong.

Do you have KSP 1.1.3?

Nuke everything to oblivion and reinstall all mods via CKAN

[Spran]

Just now, raxo2222 said:

Sounds like install went horribly wrong.

Do you have KSP 1.1.3?

Nuke everything to oblivion and reinstall all mods via CKAN

Yes, i have the latest version of KSP.

lol okay i will try that

[pap1723]

2 hours ago, Spran said:

Hi, i have a problem with RSS. When i start up my KSP it runs like normal, loading in all the textures and models etc.

But when it gets to the part where you see the Little solar system rotating, it keeps on loading for ever.

I have tried waiting two hours, but it still isn't done loading. Any solution to this problem?

When that happens, it means that you did not install the RSS Textures, or did not install them correctly. 

[Spran]

15 minutes ago, pap1723 said:

When that happens, it means that you did not install the RSS Textures, or did not install them correctly. 

Yeah i found out, because i have had the mod working before. I looked a bit around and i found my textures. Silly me.

[LTL King]

Still end up using infin full to get to orbit and rockets insanely big in RSS. So I want to try 6.4 but can't get it to work.

I have the texture pack korpinicus. What's wrong.

[raxo2222]

1 hour ago, LTL King said:

Still end up using infin full to get to orbit and rockets insanely big in RSS. So I want to try 6.4 but can't get it to work.

I have the texture pack korpinicus. What's wrong.

Get SMURFF mod, it makes parts have real mass, and fuel tanks have real mass ratios.