NathanKell

[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

Recommended Posts

@Jimbodiah: 1/10th gravity RSS wouldn't feel like Kerbin, and 10x gravity Kerbin wouldn't feel like RSS. This approach might get the dV about right, but the thrust would be totally different, and this would make well-adapted rocket designs look and fly differently.

Getting to orbit requires both potential energy ('up') and kinetic energy ('sideways'). Increasing the planet's gravity would require a rocket to have more of both, while increasing the planet's radius (mostly) only requires the rocket to have more 'sideways'. That's why stock rockets (about one part 'up' to two parts 'sideways') are shorter and fatter (more thrust per dV) than the longer sleeker RSS rockets (roughly one part 'up' to five-and-a-half parts 'sideways'). The fatter rocket's base area provides more space to mount the engines needed to lift the propellant. I think a low-gravity RSS would push rocket designs even further in this direction, more like RSS upper stages or real-life sustainer cores from sustainer-and-booster style designs.

The RSS gurus here can probably explain it more elegantly.

I already have more ideas for KSP missions than I'll ever get around to, but if you do try out a lower-gravity RSS, I'd be interested to see what rocket designs work for you.

Edited by CSE
typo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to fly kerbal rockets in RSS or real rockets in stock, just multiply the ISP on all engines by sqrt(scale factor). That should give you approximately correct behaviour. So if you have a stock kerbal X rocket and you multiply all engine ISP's by ~3.15 it'll work just fine in RSS.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@CSE  Thrust and ISP on stock parts will indeed not work for RSS, but the they will do fine up to about 1/2RSS without patching (and being a challenge) while using mods with decent engines like SSTU. Longer tanks mean they will have the needed dV and look more realistic at the same time (no longer short and stubby). Right now I have engine patches for 3.2x, 1/2RSS and RSS, plus used to have one for 6.4x, not to mention the patching needed for Kopernikus, Scatterer, SVE/RVE for all these scales (thankfully made by dedicated modders).

Using a single system where mods like scatterer, EVE/RVE etc could focus on a single system scale would be more fruitful (less people needing to change their scales mod packs on every single update), only needing a small patch for thrust/ISP to match stock parts to a 4x or larger system (gravity). You could even make a mod that scales these automatically when changing the gravity slider if this variable is available.
 
 

3 hours ago, Ralathon said:

So if you have a stock kerbal X rocket and you multiply all engine ISP's by ~3.15 it'll work just fine in RSS.

@Ralathon Actuall the ISP scale I use is 1.7x (thrust 2.0x) which for me is plenty for RSS. This has my SSTU engines behaving realistically on rockets like Delta IV Heavy etc when scaled to look like real world proportions.

But yeah, patching isp/thrust is quite simple, changing all the visual mods to follow scale less so.


My entire RSS patch (Not RO!!! They wiould have a hissy-fit, or worse).

// RSS 
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]:AFTER[SSTU]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @maxThrust *= 2.0

        @atmosphereCurve
        {
            @key[1, ] *= 1.7
	        @key,1[1, ] *= 1.7
	        @key,2[1, ] *= 1.7
        }
    }
}


 

Edited by Jimbodiah
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Wildcat111 i could safely answer for Nathanael that no, it does not work for KSP 1.2 yet.

But is he going to update it soon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That depends on how fast Kopernicus will be updated. RSS itself is a mod that does not really require a ton of updating between KSP versions (assuming that Kopernicus does not change it's config structure) but it really depends on the correct operation of other mods.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all those people who want to play RSS with stock parts, a while ago I built a ModuleManager config that tweaks all stock engines to be in line with a somewhat arbitrarily chosen real world counterpart, tanks to realistic-ish mass ratio and pod/heat shields to afford a usable ballistic coefficient.

All crew modules have been tweaked too based on ISS parts

It probably needs some minor work for 1.2, but it is generated by a spreadsheet so it should take mere minutes.

Keep in mind that some things change drastically, such as some prices, some heat generation parameter (mostly based on energy density/mass) and  monoprop engines being much weaker like IRL.

I was planning to publish it on CKAN back then, but then SMURFF came out and there's  a significant functional overlap now.


Here's the mod https://github.com/z0rb1n0/LazyRSS

EDIT: accidental quote

 

Edited by z0rb1n0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Wildcat111 said:

But is he going to update it soon?

I do not want to speak for @NathanKell and I do not, however please consider the following: He and the other devs who contributed so much toward this latest 1.2 update need to enjoy some peace and quiet.   They worked their socks off to bring us a really fantastic update to the KSP core.  Let them take whatever time they need to do whatever they want for however long they desire. Unless of course you are willing to pay them a good sum of money to make it happen according to your desired timeframes.

That said, does Nathan have a donate button anywhere?

We can still continue to enjoy RSS and its complement of realism mods in our 1.1.3 saves.

On 10/15/2016 at 9:05 AM, CSE said:

Getting to orbit requires both potential energy ('up') and kinetic energy ('sideways').

It's been years since I opened a physics book, but I do not recall energy ever described like that.  I always was under the impression that a fuelled rocket on the launch pad has a large potential energy that is then converted to kinetic energy through combustion.  Getting to orbit requires a large amount of just plain energy.  "Up" and "sideways" represent vectors, not energy types.

Fuelling the rocket stores potential energy, just like pulling on a bow.  Burning the fuel "releases the arrow" converting the stored potential energy into the kinetic energy of the rocket in flight.  Once in orbit, the rocket has kinetic energy since it is moving, but also retains potential energy relative to the earths surface since it can fall - which would then cover that potential energy back into kinetic. There are obviously other aspects (drag for example) that influence this.

Regarding the rest of your post, may I kindly suggest you consult with Tsiolkovsky and get back to us.  ;-)

 

 

Edited by Wallygator
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Wallygator said:

It's been years since I opened a physics book, but I do not recall energy ever described like that.  I always was under the impression that a fuelled rocket on the launch pad has a large potential energy that is then converted to kinetic energy through combustion.  Getting to orbit requires a large amount of just plain energy.  "Up" and "sideways" represent vectors, not energy types.

Fuelling the rocket stores potential energy, just like pulling on a bow.  Burning the fuel "releases the arrow" converting the stored potential energy into the kinetic energy of the rocket in flight.

 

What you describe is commonly called chemical potential energy. What he was referring to is mechanical potential energy in the form of gravitational potential energy. Think about it this way: A rocket flying flying straight up is converting it's kinetic energy into said potential energy by increasing it's distance to the gravitational centre point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Three_Pounds said:

What you describe is commonly called chemical potential energy. What he was referring to is mechanical potential energy in the form of gravitational potential energy. Think about it this way: A rocket flying flying straight up is converting it's kinetic energy into said potential energy by increasing it's distance to the gravitational centre point.

Fair enough.  I was editing my original post even as you were posting,just to be clear.

However, "up and sideways"? Sure.

Also, apologies for attempting to add corrections to a physics discussion in an RSS thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hello people

I'm having a bug where i am not able to recover a craft from the launchpad. This occured after i wanted to launch my new moon rocket, the bottom stage of the rocket wasnt attached to the 2,3,4th stage and was slipping from it so i had to use the launch escape system. After i launched the escape system and landed back on the ground i found out that the top of the rocket wasn't exploded and even more was stuck in a leaning position on top of the 1st stage. So i thought okey i wil try to recover it an move on but when i recovered the capsule it was stil visible, but i was able to recover the crew. Then i tried to recover the rocket and it wouldn't let me recover it, everytime i click recover it just does nothing. Can someone help me with this problem cuz otherwise my broken...  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something, something...

Spoiler

<IMAGE REMOVED BY USER>

Note the craft categories.

 

Edited by Phineas Freak
Remove image link
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kopernicus has been updated. - This of course is not saying that RSS will or should be updated soon, but it means that it is now possible to do so. :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can also confirm that current RSS release works perfect with 1.2. The only problem i have, i couldn't find one antenna that has enough range to cover Pluto. Anyone knows one additional antenna mod that has huuuge range? :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@theloganatorz yep, at the time i was testing RSS with the dev version of Kopernicus. One needs to recomplile the RSS binaries (and probably RealHeat) though to make sure that nothing is broken or will break.

@oguz RSS has to be updated to support the new CommNet features. That means moving the tracking stations somewhere that makes sense and make some patches to increase the range of both the stations and the antennas to sane(r) values (like it was done for RemoteTech).

Edited by Phineas Freak
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any chance that RSS will be aviallable via CKAN when its done? I am pretty sure I would mess up the manual installation. :)

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

 

@oguz RSS has to be updated to support the new CommNet features. That means moving the tracking stations somewhere that makes sense and make some patches to increase the range of both the stations and the antennas to sane(er) values (like it was done for RemoteTech).

I did try CommNet, it works for me in RSS with current antennas :P But current antennas only could cover Mercury-Mars area, i couldnt find and antenna that can cover far than mars. I already made one antenna cover around Earth and moon for my future moon minnions :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@oguz a quick and dirty MM patch to increase the range of the antennas:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter]]:FOR[RealSolarSystem]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter],*
    {
        @antennaPower *= 10
    }
}

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bear in mind that multiplying antenna ranges by 10 without multiplying the DSN's range will only affect links to Earth by a factor of 3 (and a bit), which is not enough.  You can set a DSN multiplication factor in the game settings (though I don't know if it goes up to 400, which is about what you'd need to close a link to the Kuiper belt even with a 10x multiplier on the antennas), or once Custom Barn Kit is updated we can set them directly in a patch (I've got a couple of suggestions over here).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Phineas Freak i dont know how to use module manager, but i tried to find RA-100 and modify it. There are these codes in RA-100's cfg;

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleDataTransmitter
        antennaType = RELAY
        packetInterval = 0.35
        packetSize = 4
        packetResourceCost = 24.0
        requiredResource = ElectricCharge
        antennaPower = 100000000000
        antennaCombinable = True
    }

I changed 100000000000 to 10000000000000 (multiplying with 100) now it's maximum range increased to 1.5TM and can cover Saturn at least :P This was from test

VEbp4R.png

Edited by oguz
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Kerbas_ad_astra i was covering temporarily the state of the parts themselves. RSS still needs to set the correct range of the tracking stations but as i see from your git issue this is already covered :D. The only problem is the customization of the various stations (not all are created equal) but this might not be even possible with the CommNet.

@oguz simply create a file (named however you like) with the extension ".cfg" somewhere inside your GameData folder. Open the file and paste the text included in the code tag.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.