Guest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Behold, the non-wobbling beasts! The struts you see are the only ones on each vehicle, to ensure the boosters stay where they ought to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Behold, the non-wobbling beasts!Yeah, this is fantastic work. I picked this up last night when a rogue large SAS module kept breaking on me (like they always do, )Thanks, ferram4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirkut Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 ferram. No output log yet but I have actually narrowed down the part that is the culprit. It's the Proton Payload Decoupler from the Soviet parts pack that is causing it to suspend in the air. For the output log, do you need just the log portion from VAB to the Launch Pad? Do you need to look at the CFG for the part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 ferram. No output log yet but I have actually narrowed down the part that is the culprit. It's the Proton Payload Decoupler from the Soviet parts pack that is causing it to suspend in the air. For the output log, do you need just the log portion from VAB to the Launch Pad? Do you need to look at the CFG for the part?I don't use those parts and I've had it happen with stock parts Also having a bad time with decoupled parts not separating. Think I have the most recent but have to double check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferram4 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you're not using the most recent build, get it and see if that fixes the problem.If you are using the most recent build, go into the config.xml and set "debug" to 1, cause the issue, and post the entire output_log.txt along with a link to a craft with the problem with the minimum number of mods possible and a list (and hopefully links) to the mods necessary, and I'll look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirkut Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thanks ferram, I will give you that info tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you're not using the most recent build, get it and see if that fixes the problem.If you are using the most recent build, go into the config.xml and set "debug" to 1, cause the issue, and post the entire output_log.txt along with a link to a craft with the problem with the minimum number of mods possible and a list (and hopefully links) to the mods necessary, and I'll look into it.I didn't. Grabbing 1.2 now. I'll let you know if it still has trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternface Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thank you Ferram! You are a genius.Between this and FAR, KSP is exactly what I want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter67 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Has anyone else noticed their Kerbals slipping off ladders during EVA? Prior to using this, they would hang onto a rung without moving, unless you pressed a key. Now they seem to slip off, whether the ship is stationary on the pad, or coasting in orbit. So far I've only noticed this with the Mk 1 pod, have not yet used any other pods on this build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferram4 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have noticed that Kerbals seem to jitter up and down a bit on the ladder, kind of like they're all incredibly excited for no reason, but nothing along the lines of slipping and falling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirkut Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Has anyone else noticed their Kerbals slipping off ladders during EVA? Prior to using this, they would hang onto a rung without moving, unless you pressed a key. Now they seem to slip off, whether the ship is stationary on the pad, or coasting in orbit. So far I've only noticed this with the Mk 1 pod, have not yet used any other pods on this build.I have noticed the slippage but it was a particular ladder. Let me try that again and let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaosCorp Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have seen Kerbals slip on ladders from time to time as far back as 0.19, dont think it has anything to do with this mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter67 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 For me, it's just a Mk1 pod with a decoupler below it - not far enough into the tree for other ladders on that save. But previously, I never encountered this behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposure Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have seen Kerbals slip on ladders from time to time as far back as 0.19, dont think it has anything to do with this mod.Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arbpotatoes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm still getting the launch clamps gluing my ship in place, even with no thrust it's just completely stationary. This is with ships made after I installed the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 @asmi: What does the output log say? I suppose I can add more code to make sure the extra launch clamp joints break properly.I've tried disabling clamp reinforcement, but the message still appeared: "Launch Clamp Break Force / Torque set to Infinity". The rocket still gets stuck, but now clamps are not failing. Here is the rocket: http://www.asmitech.com/Stuff/KSP/REAL/Rocket.zip, this is the screenshot: http://www.asmitech.com/Stuff/KSP/REAL/Rocket.png It contains KW parts, AEIS and proc fairings.The large ASAS breaking is news to me; try lowering the damping values in the config.xml and see if that helps.Try my rocket - you will get all kinds of random failures with it once you move to the launchpad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ferram, I just updated my patch to StretchyTanks again. Now the part is rescaled OnLoad() of the module, not just OnStart(), and the transform is applied to the model root (not the part root, though, because the SRB has different transforms). This means that when you launch with a rescaled stretchytank as your bottom-most part, it will be placed properly. I think that means maybe it will work with KJR now, or so I hope.https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6c7qdk7fnkihyn/StretchySRB.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sorry, link fixed. Thanks, AbeS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferram4 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 @arbpotatoes: I believe that I've fixed this issue in my build; would you mind providing a craft suffering from the issue and the list of mods necessary for it so I can work more on it?@asmi: The "Launch Clamp Break Force / Break Torque set to Infinity" message doesn't have anything to do with the extra clamp reinforcing; that message has to do with the stock joint force limits being set to huge values to try and protect the joint from what happens if the extra stiffness causes the vessel to twitch too much. I think I successfully fixed the clamp issue, since I've managed to get it to fall to the pad as one piece and break apart.The random failures seems like it's a combination of stock breakForce and breakTorque values (which are each 22 incidentally) for the parts (which were originally set for stock 1.25m parts) being used on parts that are a little to large for such weak values, the larger joint forces that this plugin causes in general, and Real Solar System + the Launch Clamp shifting on load bug causing very high forces when the rocket loads. I honestly wonder what's causing the Launch Clamp bug, since it seems to be somewhat intermittent; perhaps a floating origin issue?@NathanKell: Based on the debug log, it seems like KJR works with Stretchy Tanks without your patch being needed. That said, the huge mass disparities the mod encourages easily overpower a lot of the rigidity that KJR adds; I don't know if they're really much I can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRFirefox Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm playing with this combined with MechJeb2, KW Rocketry, FAR (of course), and NathanKell's Modular Fuel System and Real Solar System. When flying a moderate sized rocket ~100-150 tonnes, I'm getting horrible oscillations when actuating the controls past 200m/s or so. It seems possible that the engines are staying inline and the whole rocket is moving about the gimbal, as the appearance is that the entire rocket moves side to side as the main gimbal and control fins. I'm still trying to pin down the exact cause, but I could use some help knowing where to look and what to look for. The test rockets that demonstrate the worst problems are inevitably 3.75m part behemoths with payloads in the 8-15 tonne range. Without the reinforcement mod and even with stock parts I'm able to get small payloads into orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferram4 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Well... what does your rocket look like? That should give us something to start with. Problems I can think of:If MechJeb is in control during launch, that could be the problem; it doesn't know how FAR's controls work, so what ends up happening is it tends to over-control and over-correct the rocket.There's also the possibility that you're just asking for an absurd amount of force to be applied to the rocket to correct its trajectory; if you're flying at full thrust low in the atmosphere when you do this then FAR's aerodynamics will probably apply forces that would tear the rocket apart in a real scenario.Another possibility is that you're connecting a very heavy part (say a fuel tank) to a very light part (say, a decoupler) that happens to be right near the center of mass of the rocket; such joints are naturally more flexible due to the way physics works in-game and if you manage to get control inputs strong enough to flex the rocket that will ensure that the maximum amount of flexing occurs due to the large amounts of mass on either side of the joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ferram, (1) since everything moves east when you go on then off rails on the pad, I'm guessing it's the translation from polar to Cartesian. Stab in the dark, but since rescaled Kerbin is at a larger radius and rotating faster, might be that. (2) re: stretchytanks, ah, cool. Well, I meant to do that fix anyway, eventually (now you can use on as the bottom of your vessel!) so all's good.SRFirefox: are you using SAS or MechJeb? They can't really handle the delay FAR adds to control surface activation. Try with your control surface maximum deflection set to 0 but more reaction wheels.EDIT: Ninja'd by ferram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zander Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This mod is causing a problem with the novapunch Launch escape tower and parachute stack. The inline parachute is exploding when the launch escape tower is decoupled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferram4 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Then you need to increase the breakForce and breakTorque parameters for it in its config file. I can look into seeing if there is a way to scale down the stiffness to not break very low-mass parts, but that raises the question of what should qualify as "low-mass" and thus have low stiffness parameters applied to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ferram, have you considered, instead of multiplying breaking force and torque, and otherwise using existing values even as a base, just replacing them with sane values and then using those in your calculations? So many are so screwed up...Apologies if there's a really simple reason not to that I'm missing, or you already considered and rejected it for good reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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