ferram4

[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

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Hi again, 3 hours later and I've run through the whole fleet, from puny 20 meter 50 tonne ships to carriers just shy of half a Km long with no problems and not once did i feel the need to go anywhere near the cheat menu.

I feel much more confident with the LBP and 1.2 now, before KJR it was not something i was looking forward to releasing.

In stock btw, i cant launch any of the aforementioned ships unless rigid joints and unbreakable joints on, and even then the ships could come apart under the stress from the engines ,as soon as i moved.  Once launched it wasn't safe to approach another vessel unless unbreakable joints was on ,  as the approached vessel had a nasty habit of exploding with some force.    Thoroughly tested the approaching , both by ship (slow)  and aircraft (fast) with no issues, even with 3  6000 tonne ships in the same scene.  Cheers

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By the beard of Zeus! It's like night and day - I can use 1.2 without fear again! I know its a dev version but its spot on for me.

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Well... Everything seems to be working fine for me. Loaded 1.1.3 save - all ships are OK, no wobbling on space stations. Will test rovers tomorrow.

I don't know if it's KJR-related, but one certain relay-sat just can't stop ravin' and bounces to the beat when i shut down main engine. Just like pendulum or something. Looks scarry and Kraken-ish, but everything works fine.

Spoiler

thumb.png
thumb.png

 

Edited by SuppaTenko
Images => Spoiler

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it worked great with my larger ships, no wobbles at all

but my space station only stays steady for a few seconds and then shakes until it tears apart without any input from me.

 

from this

 

to this

 

i dont know if its because of the mod parts on the station or maybe the double airlock connectors on each arm

Edited by rooster

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If you've got something that tears itself apart, I need the smallest example craft that causes the issue with the minimum number of mod parts involved.  It's only rarely that a specific part causes the issue, it's generally the configuration that's the cause.  Without test cases I'm left guessing what configurations to test.

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5 hours ago, ferram4 said:

If you've got something that tears itself apart, I need the smallest example craft that causes the issue with the minimum number of mod parts involved.  It's only rarely that a specific part causes the issue, it's generally the configuration that's the cause.  Without test cases I'm left guessing what configurations to test.

I've found, even in past stable versions, that part clipping anything into UKS Kontainers (of any size) will cause the ship/station to destabilize and tear itself apart.  Don't clip into Kontainers, everything is fine, with all else being equal.  There may be other parts that do the same, that I have not yet used?

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10 hours ago, ferram4 said:

If you've got something that tears itself apart, I need the smallest example craft that causes the issue with the minimum number of mod parts involved.  It's only rarely that a specific part causes the issue, it's generally the configuration that's the cause.  Without test cases I'm left guessing what configurations to test.

ill do some further testing and report back

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this seems to be the offending part, removing it from the station stopped the shaking on both parts so i assumed it may have been the docking connection and tried to dock the parts back together.

the fuel arm has no remote SAS so on my first attempt i knocked the arm slightly and it span away so i quick loaded and went to try again but on the reload the arm would then shake and spin away by itself.

at this point the main station is still perfectly fine.

ive found that detaching one of the fuel tanks stops the shaking although it doesnt seem to matter which tank i detach. so now with only 3 tanks attached tried to reproduce the shaking with out success. 

these are all the parts on the arm at the moment but ill need to add 4-5 tanks on to the arm to complete it. 

one

two

there is no point if that is what is causing the self destruct 

any ideas?

Edit:- oh and the extra parts are from kerbal planetary base systems

Edited by rooster

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I hate to ask, but am I missing something? I looked on the OP and it still shows the latest version is for 1.1.3. Is there another link that I need to look at for even the experimental version that's 1.2 compatible?  If I have not looked back far enough, many apologies.

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On 18/10/2016 at 5:50 PM, ferram4 said:

Alright, so for the people who are willing to help test and those who are impatient but fully understand the meaning of "it's a dev build, everything might break, don't complain about the Kraken taking your save" there is a 1.2-compatible dev build available here..snip

Many thanks Ferram, I'll let you know of any issues.

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@rooster: Well, I tried something that might fix it that's in the latest dev build if you wanna give it a shot.  I think it should work quite well.

@adsii1970: On the previous page there was a link, as there is above.  The reason there is no link in the main post is to help add minor barriers to entry to reduce the userbase of the dev build to those that either are here to help or are super-determined to use it.  The purpose of that is to minimize noise in the issue reporting so that I can make sense of what we have.

So has anyone given this a shot with Konstruction yet?  I know better than to only rely on myself for sure-fire testing, I'm not crazy enough to come up with all the situations that make the physics engine angry.

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I gave the (first) dev build a quick go.  I was going to wait for a "proper" release, but then I noticed my A-12 rocket just disassembles itself due to it's own weight while sitting on the launch pad doing nothing.  So far, it looks good.  No issues.  It doesn't fix SAS going nuts with gimbals, but I really wouldn't expect it to.

So, it's successful at taking a large rocket (sits well over the size of the launchpad) from self disassembly to being able to launch and fly fine.

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@ferram4 ill DL the dev build and konstruction to help ya test, (just got around to patching to 1.2)

 

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sadly the issue persists with a new twist.

the station still slowly starts to shake and it gets more violent until the station breaks

I've found that just detaching one fuel tank out of the 4 (once again it doesn't seem to matter which one) stops the shake even with the fuel arm still attached to the station

so it definitely seems to be a problem with the fuel tank section made of a clamp-o-tron docking port sr, a 4000ec battery and a rockoman jumbo 64

but now there a new problem. when i detach the fuel tank it doesn't float off but stays hovering around the docking port but not attached, almost a magnetic looking effect -- pic (btw sorry pictures are dark, station doesnt survive long enough to reach sunlight)

even when i use mono to move the station away it follows

but when i speed up time it slowly floats off away from the station yay

the kicker is that when i return to normal time the tank zooms back to its position at the docking port and destroys my station with what i assume is the impact 

one

two

 

do you want my save to have a look?

 

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@ferram4 been playing with your devbuild for about a day now, very pleased with it.  Made my spaghetti rockets rock-solid again.  Haven't experienced any of the crazy phantom force issues with orbital stations, but then my stations haven't been that complex.  

For record, playing on MacOS sierra with a healthy-sized game data folder.

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@rooster: So then that means that whatever station design you have constructed is exceptionally wobbly.  I'll try increasing the number of joints between the endpoints and see if that helps.  The parts not floating away after undocking is very strange, perhaps something changed with sending events when the vessel parts change.  Go ahead and link the save, it'll make things easier.

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> but when i speed up time it slowly floats off away from the station yay

> the kicker is that when i return to normal time the tank zooms back to its position at the docking port and destroys my station with what i
> assume is the impact

http://imgur.com/a/PYmp1

With this station, I get everything rooster is getting, except for the wobbly bit, the station is rock solid. If I undock & then time warp, I get destruction.

It happens with the standard Clamp-o-tron, the Sr(both the stock one & the new one from Near Future Construction), and the CBM from the CX Areospace station parts pack.

I find if I undock, go back to the space centre, then go back to the station, all is fine. What should be undocked is floating by itself, and nothing is destroyed.


Edit: I forgot to mention I have no autostruts or rigid attachments at all. Just KJR

Edited by Argyle MHF
Forgot data

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the station is stable without the mod

its where i built the majority of it while i was waiting for this mod so i could use my other big wobbly ship (which now works perfectly thanks to your update)

save is here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9h6jtb66M__aTJyVjJSTFJ5T0U

the extra parts you'll need are   kerbal planetary base systems

the ship is KNSC High Anchor Base

 

Edited by rooster

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Hi several days later and returning to report all is well, with KJR and multi thousand  tonne ships.  Not had one failure with KJR, even when the phantom forces rip the ship out of the water with considerable force, it still manages to keep the bulk of the craft intact

One small issue but easily avoidable and likely beyond spec but thought it worth a mention, I use quick start, for obvious dev reasons, and as such i can switch straight to the last active vessel used.  In this one instance the stock Kraken is quicker on the draw than KJR  and manages to destroy the ship on scene load,  seemingly before KJR starts.   I understand that it's probably to do with when the KJR code can start to work it's magic, and decidedly edge case so not looking for a fix.  

Just picked up the latest dev version and will continue trying to break it , thanks again for the update.

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@rooster: I can't test it because there are some additional parts in there that aren't in the stock game or Kerbal Planetary Base Systems.

Also, another dev build for testing.  This one should fix the parts remaining connected even after decoupling/undocking and should also fix the gaps created with Konstruction welding ports.

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sorry Ferram, that's my bad. i thought all the parts were from just that one mod because i was getting a incompatibly message from this one after the last patch and i thought that meant it wasn't being loaded.

turns out a handful of parts where from that mod and it was being loaded after all

looking at new build now

 

edit: whatever you have done in the latest build seems to have sorted everything out on my end.

- no shaking that tears the station apart 

- detached parts drift away normally like good little debris and most importantly don't come flying back at high speeds.

- to top it off, everything is rock solid while in motion just like pre 1.2

thanks for the effort Ferram :)

i can now go back to building up the Knsc infrastructure 

 

Edited by rooster

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Excellent.  That means that I only have to address the issue with KAS struts introducing similar wobble on exiting timewarp and we can have a nice, stable KJR for release.  I think that the KAS fix should be relatively quick though, so maybe tomorrow (don't take this as gospel bad things could come up) for the release.

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I think this mod works weird with Atmospheric Autopilot mod. I was flying with stock plane Satellite Launcher, and if I do time warp, occasionally sudden shock strikes the vehicle and change it's pitch weirdly. I did not have any problems before installing another dev version of KJR.

Would you mind to check for this phenomenon? Current I installed SVE, Realistic Atmosphere, Better Burn Time, Kopernicus and some parts mods that might not affect to this phenomenon.

Sorry for no logs...

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4 hours ago, Quodios Kerman said:

Sorry for no logs...

I've seen you post this every time you report a problem. Why?? If you can't find them, read this. If you don't have a place to upload them, use pastebin.

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5 hours ago, Quodios Kerman said:

Sorry for no logs...

Just a note on this.  The reason to provide logs isn't as a favor to modders, it's because it is impossible to diagnose and debug most issues without them.  So if you're not posting logs, it just means that your issue probably won't get addressed.

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