ferram4

[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

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I'll also have to figure out how to lock user control prior to all of this being completed.

That part is easy: InputLockManager::SetControlLock/InputLockManager::RemoveControlLock. Check ControlTypes enum members for possible locks (for your case it's probably ControlTypes.ALL_SHIP_CONTROLS).

Edited by asmi

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@Traches: Meh, I'm used to it. Nobody calls support to tell them they're perfectly fine.

I'm perfectly fine.

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Am I correct in assuming that this mod breaks things like KW fairings by the nature of how it works? It's a great mod, but I do like watching fairings pop off my rocket.

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You assume wrong. KW fairings pop off perfectly fine.

Really? They stopped working for me when I installed this (though if I activate warp, they pass through what they were housing). I'll need to play around with the settings.

EDIT: Excellent! If I disable 'reinforce decouplers further', they pop off exactly as intended.

Edited by Synthesis

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You're using an old version then; that would probably be version 1.1. Get 1.3 and the problem should disappear.

Yes, there have been a lot of updates to this over the few days it's been out. Lots of really terrible bugs appeared that couldn't justify putting off a solution.

Edited by ferram4

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Ferram, just wanted to break up the long line of problems that get posted in your mod threads and say that this mod is awesome, and you're awesome for offering so much support with it. That goes for all your other mods too. Thanks!

I was about to write the same thing. I strongly agree.

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I was about to write the same thing. I strongly agree.

Thanks for this mod. Finally i can build my mobile Kethane Base without braking apart already on the launch pad while test driving it.

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ferram. I tried the update and I'm no longer getting the stuck launches. I'll let you know if I notice any other strange errors.

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hmmmmm, the NP LES still pulling off dock port from my pod on decouple... may be i need to strut the pod & docking port instead???

also, does 1.3 do anything with the gravity or sth like that?? My 800ton koyuz rocket reached apogee of 190km with 2nd stage only......!?

Edited by mwlue

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hmmmmm, the NP LES still pulling off dock port from my pod on decouple... may be i need to strut the pod & docking port instead???

The NP LES is astonishingly overpowered in this regard. I lowered its decoupling force from 2000 to 200, and now it tumbles away gently.

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You're using an old version then; that would probably be version 1.1. Get 1.3 and the problem should disappear.

Yes, there have been a lot of updates to this over the few days it's been out. Lots of really terrible bugs appeared that couldn't justify putting off a solution.

That's good to know--I'll update immediately.

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@mwlue: I'd take Jack Wolfe's solution for the NP LES; there's no reason that it should be that overpowered.

KJR also doesn't do anything to mess with gravity or aerodynamics. Perhaps you have installed another mod that is changing the way physics behave / your rockets behave.

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Just played around with Infernal Robotics + Quantum Struts + KJR: enter the space kraken !

To have fun with it: create a central tank with radial attachments, on them IR pistons, and then again radial and 2.5m tanks. Fix them with a couple of angled q-struts. (that's my usual design for inter planetary haulers)

Try it in space for ex. with hyperedit. Once there, it will start to wobble a bit, then more, and finally start discombobulating itself in an hilarious manner.

Not exactly sure what is happening there, phantom forces looping around or something..

(for the record, i was trying to create a variable geometry hauler, to make a super heavy hauler that i can launch without too much problems - i use FAR, forget wide payloads - and that would extend itself once in space)

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Quantum Struts and Hyperedit are both well know to create issues on their own. Unless you have dump or bug log saying its this mod Id be more inclined to think the issue is coming from QS or hyperedit, or both.

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Just tried again without using HyperEdit and without Quantum Struts: the kraken just ate another cargo hauler :D My design is stable upon launch, then on very last second when in orbit and the last decoupler goes off, it starts shaking around wildly, even though i have SAS off, and no input at all.. Does this with 1.3, it was ok until 1.2. One specific of that ship design is the center hub part is much lighter than the 2,3,4 or 6 tanks + nuke engines that are attached around it (through girders and struts). Just tried with my super heavy one (6 tanks).

Edited by Surefoot

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Well, what does your design look like? Which connection is the actual problem connection? How many physics-less parts are involved in this mess? Try boosting the damping values in the config.xml and see if that helps with the issue.

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IR does some wobbly weirdness with some parts. I managed to make a stack of 8 of the telescoping pistons from largest to almost the smallest. Stick that into the side of a tank and put a probe body on top.

http://pastebin.com/3y4i6XGw

Launch it and the assembly jiggles around on the pad. Use one of the ReStock ThunderMax tanks and the thing will shake rather violently - with or without KJR installed. I tried it with only a 3 segment stack of the pistons and either it didn't shake or it was moving too little to see.

Extend the pistons and the shaking slows down. Disabling torque on the probe core makes no change.

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@mwlue: I'd take Jack Wolfe's solution for the NP LES; there's no reason that it should be that overpowered.

KJR also doesn't do anything to mess with gravity or aerodynamics. Perhaps you have installed another mod that is changing the way physics behave / your rockets behave.

Yep, I have tuned down the decouple force on those LESs. For the reaching-orbit-too-fast thing, its all my bad. My Koyuz is simply too powerful :D

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Now I have one that KJR won't let off the pad. http://pastebin.com/HEgu0jgF All stock except for the long tanks and monster SRBs from ReStock http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-21-restock-parts/

This looks interesting. Seems there's something built into KSP but not working/enabled yet for stiffening things. Couple of links in this post.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37680-DROMOMAN-modular-arm-parts-for-Damned-Infernal-Robotics?p=478780&viewfull=1#post478780

Edited by Galane

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Here's the design that fails with KJR (i put the Qstruts back, they are not related to the problem as they are turned off when it happens)

uGfrdvd.jpg

6x2.5m tanks connected to one central tank through girder + adapters + radial mounts, with 2 super heavy struts (one above one below) from NP.

The ship goes up to orbit without a hint of a wobble, actually for this purpose KJR does the job wonderfully - then when the decoupler in the red circle goes off, the kraken comes in and eats the ship, even when not moving at all (no engine on, no input). Seems that when the 2nd stage module clears the area "inside" the nuke engines, the kraken will stop its attack, but by this time the ship has lost a few pieces already. If i keep the 2nd stage attached, there is no problem.

I got 6 similar cargoes, fully loaded, waiting in orbit for a transfer to Jool :D (i put them there before installing KJR v1.3). I think i put one there with the v1.1, had no issue at all.

(edit) quick thought: the struts are going from external tank to central hub (in that order). When the ship gets to orbit the central tank is empty (has to use its own fuel to get there) so it's light weight compared to the still full external tanks + engines. Would that explain the resonant wobble ?

@Ferram: which values should i play with, "linDamp", "angDamp" (0 by default), "linearDriveDamper", "angularDriveDamper" ?

(edit2) ok i made a proof of concept with stock parts and just the NovaPunch struts, no other mod:

http://pastebin.com/D5ENEvf1

It will expose the problem fully by itself. On the launchpad it might be stable, just time warp a bit and it will start wobbling itself apart - or try to launch it :D

(edit3) haha made some tests, increased some damper values at random, tried the concept ship again, which failed again.. and while looking thoughtfully at the remaining parts of my ship spread around the launch pad, noticed one mainsail engine still attached to its small tank, upside down (tank on the ground), moving by itself - the engines were off all the time - the tank was wobbling all alone on the ground, and moving around, like it was alive...

There, refined the concept so it's 100% stock now (using EAS-4 struts):

http://pastebin.com/PNh00WPQ

The dancing mainsail is hilarious :)

(further edit) replaced the trusses and radial mount points by i-beams: same result, so the radial mounts are not faulty

Edited by Surefoot

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@Galane: That rocket has more non-stock parts than just Restock. Some kind of SAS module keeps me from loading it. To check the issue. You are running version 1.3 though, right?

@Surefoot: Yeah. I've confirmed that. I think it's a result of a very large mass on the other end of that pendulum and the way that the springs reinforce each other; you've got ~42 tonnes on the end of a radial connection, and the struts that you added aren't set up to really reinforce things. The issue can be temporarily solved with struts connecting the pods to each other rather than relying solely on the central section. I'll look into what I can do to fix it.

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I see, thanks. Made more designs today, including a new supertanker with the engines situated at the rear this time, which allows for a tighter construction (and hopefully avoid the space kraken). Tried to make a high capacity one (for hauling about 250t of fuel to Jool and get back in one go) but i keep failing with the launcher:

LUjSrix.jpg

It will start stable, then wobble slightly, then swing around like a giant noodle, just by staying there on the launch pad :D Tried to launch it as quick as possible but it will start this dance during flight as well (leading to a complete failure).

(edit) yes the payload is kinda large, but well balanced, and it shouldnt start a swing dance like this by itself...

@Ferram: i was thinking, are there any mechanical losses ? The way different spring parts keep interacting with each other amplifying the effect makes me think it's not the case. Multiple springs connected together shouldnt make a perpetual motion like this, due to a part of the energy being lost as heat and such. Is it a limitation of the engine ?

Edited by Surefoot

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I see, thanks. Made more designs today, including a new supertanker with the engines situated at the rear this time, which allows for a tighter construction (and hopefully avoid the space kraken). Tried to make a high capacity one (for hauling about 250t of fuel to Jool and get back in one go) but i keep failing with the launcher:

LUjSrix.jpg

It will start stable, then wobble slightly, then swing around like a giant noodle, just by staying there on the launch pad :D Tried to launch it as quick as possible but it will start this dance during flight as well (leading to a complete failure).

(edit) yes the payload is kinda large, but well balanced, and it shouldnt start a swing dance like this by itself...

@Ferram: i was thinking, are there any mechanical losses ? The way different spring parts keep interacting with each other amplifying the effect makes me think it's not the case. Multiple springs connected together shouldnt make a perpetual motion like this, due to a part of the energy being lost as heat and such. Is it a limitation of the engine ?

How heavy are those top stages? Those nuclear engines can't be light. I'm thinking you are a little ambitious with the weight you are placing on that rocket. If it's top heavy, and is that long, it exacerbates the wobbly issues for sure. I'm really curious though, how many tons?

You would probably need clamps placed on those high stages as well. But since clamps are being a bit annoying in 0.22 not sure if it'll make things worse.

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