[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[toadicus]

So something like the middle ground I mentioned would be generally to your liking, John Nowak? And it's acceptable in general that the stations would be entirely ethereal and have no actual, physical presence in the world?

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

For ground stations, maybe we could designate that anything landed on Kerbin is automatically connected, so players can plop down probe bases with antennas as "Kanberra Station" and other ground terminals.

Can we do something about DTS+KSC2?

We could -- at the transfer windows (both departure and arrival), Kerbin and Duna are not on opposite sides of the Sun. On the one hand, forcing players to schedule their transmissions during the certain parts of the synodic period feels a little odd, but any science transmissions that occur are probably going to be done immediately after arrival anyway.

[OddFunction]

For ground stations, maybe we could designate that anything landed on Kerbin is automatically connected, so players can plop down probe bases with antennas as "Kanberra Station" and other ground terminals.

As someone who downloaded the mod 5 minutes ago, I thought this was already the case.

You mean I have to do a satellite in orbit with a direct line of sight to base, then a second reciever pointed to the orbiter? I don't really care, just looking for information

[dudecon]

You mean I have to do a satellite in orbit with a direct line of sight to base

No. Currently, connections to KSC are modeled as range to the surface of Kerbin.

then a second reciever pointed to the orbiter?

No. Antennas in AR act as both receivers and transmitters, and do not need to be pointed. Any vessel with an antenna will automatically act as a relay where appropriate.

[OddFunction]

No. Currently, connections to KSC are modeled as range to the surface of Kerbin.No. Antennas in AR act as both receivers and transmitters, and do not need to be pointed. Any vessel with an antenna will automatically act as a relay where appropriate.

Ah that makes sense. The first part is especially good to know. I'm excited to give this mod a try.

[toadicus]

For ground stations, maybe we could designate that anything landed on Kerbin is automatically connected, so players can plop down probe bases with antennas as "Kanberra Station" and other ground terminals.

As someone who downloaded the mod 5 minutes ago, I thought this was already the case.

You mean I have to do a satellite in orbit with a direct line of sight to base, then a second reciever pointed to the orbiter? I don't really care, just looking for information

Edit: Ninja'd by dudecon

Currently, all of Kerbin's surface is a "ground station". Any antenna with a positive range at least as long as the vessel's height will have a connection. What Kerbas_ad_astra means is that, in a potential optional future feature wherein transmissions must optionally be made to specific locations on Kerbin's surface, we could allow ground stations to be built by calling vessel that is "landed" (or maybe "splashed down?") on Kerbin a "ground station" and therefore viable target for transmissions. You do not need an orbital network to communicate to things at various points on Kerbin.

We could -- at the transfer windows (both departure and arrival), Kerbin and Duna are not on opposite sides of the Sun. On the one hand, forcing players to schedule their transmissions during the certain parts of the synodic period feels a little odd, but any science transmissions that occur are probably going to be done immediately after arrival anyway.

That's an interesting concept, and it could give a bit of extra meaning to getting the T3 tracking station upgrade: you could wake up all your probes on Duna at "odd" times of the cycle.

Edited June 2, 2015 by toadicus
Added the word "optional" a bunch of times just in case.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

As someone who downloaded the mod 5 minutes ago, I thought this was already the case.

It's true that anything landed on Kerbin has zero "distance" to Kerbin, but that's under the current system. We're talking about maybe adding an option to require the ultimate connection be made to KSC rather than any spot on Kerbin's surface. I'm proposing that, if that option (and it will be an option which is not enabled by default) is implemented, then players who choose to enable that option could be able to easily make their own ground stations (preserving immersion) by allowing landed vessels to be exceptions to the rule. (Maybe, when the player switches back to KSC, the recovery team rolls out a giant network cable.)

You mean I have to do a satellite in orbit with a direct line of sight to base, then a second reciever pointed to the orbiter? I don't really care, just looking for information

You don't have to point anything at anything, and that's always going to be the case. Everything will figure out its own way to call home, requiring no intervention on your part (aside from choosing the right antenna for the job, of course).

[mitko]

About the interplanetary expeditions to Duna and Eve without Com 88-88 - What about increasing the maximal range to which the ship can communicate depending on the numbers of antennas it has. Let's say for example that the max range of the DTS-M1 is increased to 100 Mm, if the max com range of the ship increases with the cube of the number of antennas. Then in order to be able to communicate with home half the time, a Duna ship must have 6-7 DTS-M1 antennas.

Edited June 2, 2015 by mitko

[OddFunction]

It's true that anything landed on Kerbin has zero "distance" to Kerbin, but that's under the current system. We're talking about maybe adding an option to require the ultimate connection be made to KSC rather than any spot on Kerbin's surface. I'm proposing that, if that option (and it will be an option which is not enabled by default) is implemented, then players who choose to enable that option could be able to easily make their own ground stations (preserving immersion) by allowing landed vessels to be exceptions to the rule. (Maybe, when the player switches back to KSC, the recovery team rolls out a giant network cable.)

This as a feature actually seems pretty cool. Kerbosyncronous orbit time

edit:

About the interplanetary expeditions to Duna and

Well said LOL

double edit:

Do any of you have a preference for the 'line of sight' fudge? I was thinking 10%.

Edited June 2, 2015 by OddFunction

[toadicus]

So if my little orbital modeling script is correct, the maximum distance between Kerbin and Duna at ideal transfer arrival and departure points is about 20.6 Gm. That's not a whole lot shorter than 3.52 Gm, especially after padding it by 10% for people who aren't right on the money.

Here's a (stock) pass using a synodic requirement for DTS+KSC2, and giving the 88-88 a little extra range, and allowing it to do Jool missions with a KSC2:

[TABLE][TR][TD][/TD][TD]From→[/TD][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]To↓[/TD][TD][m][/TD][TD]4.80E+05[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]4.80E+05[/TD][TD]4.80E+05[/TD][TD]3.29E+07[/TD][TD]9.92E+07[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]3.29E+07[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]6.81E+09[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][TD]9.92E+07[/TD][TD]6.81E+09[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC1[/TD][TD]4.80E+07[/TD][TD]4.80E+06[/TD][TD]3.29E+08[/TD][TD]9.92E+08[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC2[/TD][TD]2.26E+11[/TD][TD]3.29E+08[/TD][TD]2.26E+10[/TD][TD]6.81E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC3[/TD][TD]7.12E+12[/TD][TD]1.85E+09[/TD][TD]1.27E+11[/TD][TD]3.82E+11[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

Edit: If you want to try it, here are the relevant parts of the cfg: http://hastebin.com/etoyabufez.c

Edit2: It's worth saying that you'll be very disappointed with that config if you don't have the dev build from page 60.

Edited June 2, 2015 by toadicus

[Z-Key Aerospace]

I'm getting lock-ups when my craft can't transmit to Kerbin any more.

My craft is relaying from 2 other craft and in contact with Kerbin. Like a Y shape of green lines. Then it loses contact. The lines change into a triangle that doesn't connect to Kerbin. It's a closed loop. 2 green lines and one red one.

I have a screen shot. Windows has greyed it out but you can still see the triangle.

[John Nowak]

So something like the middle ground I mentioned would be generally to your liking, John Nowak? And it's acceptable in general that the stations would be entirely ethereal and have no actual, physical presence in the world?

Right. Just define where the ground station is, and as phase 2 of the feature, allow the ground stations to be upgraded. I wouldn't see any need to visit the ground stations.

[toadicus]

Great Scott! AntennaRange has been updated to 1.9.1, which fixes the crash-to-desktop that was reported and fixed in dev builds a week ago, but I forgot to release officially. Z-Key Aerospace, this fixes the issue you're reporting. My bad! A few other features we've been talking about are in here, too.

Note that geometric ranges and the associated rebalance are NOT being released in this build. That needs more playtesting first. If you want it released, playtest!

CHANGELOG:

v.1.9.1 [2015-06-02]
* Improved "circular relay" detection to avoid infinite loops.  This fixes the crash to desktop / hangs forever issue.
* No longer incorrectly checking for line of sight to Kerbin when the line of sight option is disabled.
* Pretty lines can now be toggled on and off using the toolbar/applauncher icons in map mode.  This is not a persistent change.
* Made the network resolution update delay configurable, from 8 ms to 2.5 s.

[DudewHorns]

Currently, all of Kerbin's surface is a "ground station". Any antenna with a positive range at least as long as the vessel's height will have a connection. What Kerbas_ad_astra means is that, in a potential optional future feature wherein transmissions must optionally be made to specific locations on Kerbin's surface, we could allow ground stations to be built by calling vessel that is "landed" (or maybe "splashed down?") on Kerbin a "ground station" and therefore viable target for transmissions. You do not need an orbital network to communicate to things at various points on Kerbin.

That's what I would like if it is easy enough to do, and meant from my earlier post.

@iDisOrder Yep I'm old and cranky too, and those math mumbo-jumbo things makes me brain hurt as well

[smunisto]

Thank you for all the answers. I actually whipped up a similar chart in Excel to help me rebalance the antennas to my taste and add the Origami ones in the mix.

I will post my progress soon.

However another question arises now. Aren't all links dissimilar(excluding the antenna X - antenna X ones), as no antenna is actually transmitting on its own, they all form a "link" of sorts with KSC?

And since KSC doesn't have equal ranges at any level to any of the antennas(at least the cfg I am using), the link is always dissimilar?

For example if the Whip Antenna has a range of "x" and KSC 1 - a range of "y", wouldn't this always make a max range calculation of: MaxTransmitDistance = sqrt(x*y*sqrt(maxPowerFactor))

In that sense, when is an antenna only using its own maxTransmitDistance = NominalRange / sqrt(MaxPowerFactor)?

In my strive for re-balance, shouldn't I always use Antenna - KSC 1/2/3 as "x" and "y" when tuning the max ranges for each antenna?

And I understand my mistake(or rather misconception) regarding my Jool example. I actually didn't think through the ranges for single dishes transmitting without relays from Jool and assumed from the start that I will have the so-called "69Gm" Origami dish in KEO so calculated the nominal range within the similar link formula until I got 90.09 Gm as the end result. Sort of backward (and with the wrong conception) math here, not much more to be expected of a lawyer though.

--With regard to the ground stations on Kerbin discussions:

I support this idea:

For ground stations, maybe we could designate that anything landed on Kerbin is automatically connected, so players can plop down probe bases with antennas as "Kanberra Station" and other ground terminals.

With Toadicus' clarification - landed or splashed down.

EDIT: I just downloaded the 1.9.1 official version and....where did the KSC ranges go from the AntennaRange.cfg? Compared to the latest dev version I am using, they are...um...missing.

Edited June 3, 2015 by smunisto

[vardicd]

So something like the middle ground I mentioned would be generally to your liking, John Nowak? And it's acceptable in general that the stations would be entirely ethereal and have no actual, physical presence in the world?

Right. Just define where the ground station is, and as phase 2 of the feature, allow the ground stations to be upgraded. I wouldn't see any need to visit the ground stations.

I could live with this, but personally, I'd like to see the ground stations be a physical part of the game. that way maybe I could incorporate a ground station into a ground base on Duna, or Laythe, and have that base BE something other than a 'place for Kerbals to visit or live.' Have the poor lonely ground station on Eve that no one wants to get assigned to or something. Just thinking of the game/roleplay possibilities. Its not make or break for me, like I said, I'd be happy with it. But I'd prefer a thing to build with myself.

[rkman]

that way maybe I could incorporate a ground station into a ground base on Duna, or Laythe,

The point of ground stations (on the home planet) it that they enable communication throughout the entire system, with around the clock coverage. That's why NASA has three of those spread around the globe, and it is why the antenna dishes they use are huge (up to 70m diameter) to provide a gain factor in the order of a million or more - there is no way to get those to Mars (or Duna), nor is there a need to put ground stations there.

That does not prohibit you to build (small) relay stations, typically in orbit somewhere because then they have shorter 'blind' (no lline-of-sight) periods, but those can be put on the surface as well.

Edited June 3, 2015 by rkman

[OddFunction]

toadicus,

I wanted to say I'm really enjoying your mod. I love the extra thought that I have to put into my probes now, its fun without being tedious at all

Thanks for making this!

[Moon Goddess]

Edit: Ninja'd by dudecon

Currently, all of Kerbin's surface is a "ground station". Any antenna with a positive range at least as long as the vessel's height will have a connection. What Kerbas_ad_astra means is that, in a potential optional future feature wherein transmissions must optionally be made to specific locations on Kerbin's surface, we could allow ground stations to be built by calling vessel that is "landed" (or maybe "splashed down?") on Kerbin a "ground station" and therefore viable target for transmissions. You do not need an orbital network to communicate to things at various points on Kerbin.

That's an interesting concept, and it could give a bit of extra meaning to getting the T3 tracking station upgrade: you could wake up all your probes on Duna at "odd" times of the cycle.

I'm so glad you're talking about keeping that optional.

I'll be honest, I prefer the time delays and realism of RemoteTech, but I use your mod simply because the whole remotetech thing of "Oh, my probe fell past the horizon and no one bothered to drive over there and set up an antenna first" hurts my suspension of disbelief.

[vardicd]

The point of ground stations (on the home planet) it that they enable communication throughout the entire system, with around the clock coverage. That's why NASA has three of those spread around the globe, and it is why the antenna dishes they use are huge (up to 70m diameter) to provide a gain factor in the order of a million or more - there is no way to get those to Mars (or Duna), nor is there a need to put ground stations there.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/canberra_complex_close_up.jpg

That does not prohibit you to build (small) relay stations, typically in orbit somewhere because then they have shorter 'blind' (no lline-of-sight) periods, but those can be put on the surface as well.

Yeah I didn't mean a ground station on the order of what's at Kerbin, I meant something more along the lines of a crewed ground station on Duna or Eve that could control local probes, without having to relay signal back to Kerbin, Have a relay in orbit that allows you to see and control probes around the planet?

[toadicus]

Thank you for all the answers. I actually whipped up a similar chart in Excel to help me rebalance the antennas to my taste and add the Origami ones in the mix.

I will post my progress soon.

However another question arises now. Aren't all links dissimilar(excluding the antenna X - antenna X ones), as no antenna is actually transmitting on its own, they all form a "link" of sorts with KSC?

And since KSC doesn't have equal ranges at any level to any of the antennas(at least the cfg I am using), the link is always dissimilar?

For example if the Whip Antenna has a range of "x" and KSC 1 - a range of "y", wouldn't this always make a max range calculation of: MaxTransmitDistance = sqrt(x*y*sqrt(maxPowerFactor))

In that sense, when is an antenna only using its own maxTransmitDistance = NominalRange / sqrt(MaxPowerFactor)?

In my strive for re-balance, shouldn't I always use Antenna - KSC 1/2/3 as "x" and "y" when tuning the max ranges for each antenna?

And I understand my mistake(or rather misconception) regarding my Jool example. I actually didn't think through the ranges for single dishes transmitting without relays from Jool and assumed from the start that I will have the so-called "69Gm" Origami dish in KEO so calculated the nominal range within the similar link formula until I got 90.09 Gm as the end result. Sort of backward (and with the wrong conception) math here, not much more to be expected of a lawyer though.

A few formulas for your reference:

PER ANTENNA:

nominalRange is a given, and is never calculated

maxPowerFactor is a given, and is never calculated

maxTransmitDistance = nominalRange * sqrt(maxPowerFactor)

PER LINK (connected pair of antennas):

NominalLinkDistance = sqrt(nominalRange1 * nominalRange2)

MaxLinkDistance = sqrt(maxTransmitDistance1 * maxTransmitDistance2)

Therefore, to find the MaxLinkDistance from two sets of nominalRange and maxPowerFactor:

MaxLinkDistance = sqrt(nominalRange1 * sqrt(maxPowerFactor1) * nominalRange2 * sqrt(maxPowerFactor2))

To find a single antenna's nominalRange from a desired maxTransmitDistance given its maxPowerFactor:

nominalRange = maxTransmitDistance / sqrt(maxPowerFactor)

To find a single antenna's desired maximum range given the desired maximum link distance and another set maxTransmitDistance:

maxTransmitDistance1 = MaxLinkDistance * MaxLinkDistance / maxTransmitDistance2

Remember that maxPowerFactor may differ between antennas (and does, in my lastest configs: longAntenna is 8, mediumDish is 4, commDish is 16).

Currently Kerbin's maxPowerFactor is hard-coded as 8. As you observed, links to Kerbin are always dissimilar.

Feel free to use this spreadsheet if it's useful to you: https://goo.gl/ChsbfL

I'm still exploring ideas about link ranges and asymmetric pairings myself, so I'm glad you're pushing through all this to experiment with things yourself and share what seems best to you.

EDIT: I just downloaded the 1.9.1 official version and....where did the KSC ranges go from the AntennaRange.cfg? Compared to the latest dev version I am using, they are...um...missing.

Per my release comment:

Note that geometric ranges and the associated rebalance are NOT being released in this build. That needs more playtesting first. If you want it released, playtest!

The 1.9.1 release is a technically older code base than any of the dev builds, without any experimental or untested features. If you want to keep playing with geometric ranges, play with the dev build. It has all the fixes, plus the new features. As always, you can find the dev build here: [zip] [tar.gz] [tar.xz]

I could live with this, but personally, I'd like to see the ground stations be a physical part of the game...

In general I think that would be the cooler way to do things, but it involves me learning a lot of tech that I'm not already familiar with. I'll take a glance over Extraplanetary Launchpads (and maybe Kerbinside) about how to "launch" craft from other locations and see how feasible I think it is for this mod.

...that way maybe I could incorporate a ground station into a ground base on Duna, or Laythe, and have that base BE something other than a 'place for Kerbals to visit or live.' Have the poor lonely ground station on Eve that no one wants to get assigned to or something. Just thinking of the game/roleplay possibilities. Its not make or break for me, like I said, I'd be happy with it. But I'd prefer a thing to build with myself.

The point of ground stations (on the home planet) it that they enable communication throughout the entire system, with around the clock coverage. That's why NASA has three of those spread around the globe, and it is why the antenna dishes they use are huge (up to 70m diameter) to provide a gain factor in the order of a million or more - there is no way to get those to Mars (or Duna), nor is there a need to put ground stations there.

That does not prohibit you to build (small) relay stations, typically in orbit somewhere because then they have shorter 'blind' (no lline-of-sight) periods, but those can be put on the surface as well.

In general I'm with RKMan on this one. Transporting a 70 meter dish to another planet would be a huge and largely-wasteful operation. The ones we have here do the whole job just fine. Nothing's stopping you from designing a huge, heavy part, giving it a giant range in the cfg, and shipping it out yourself right now, though.

toadicus,

I wanted to say I'm really enjoying your mod. I love the extra thought that I have to put into my probes now, its fun without being tedious at all

Thanks for making this!

I'm glad you're enjoying it! I enjoy making it, and am happy to share.

I'm so glad you're talking about keeping that optional.

I'll be honest, I prefer the time delays and realism of RemoteTech, but I use your mod simply because the whole remotetech thing of "Oh, my probe fell past the horizon and no one bothered to drive over there and set up an antenna first" hurts my suspension of disbelief.

- - - Updated - - -

Update: I actually played the game last night (<gasp!>), and I felt like whip->KSC2 was too long. Do we think we could support a 480 km range (down from 4.8 Mm) for whip->KSC1 to keep whip->KSC2 from reaching past Minmus? Downside: it puts whip->whip down to 4.8 km, which is not very far.

[TABLE][TR][TD][/TD][TD]From→[/TD][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]To↓[/TD][TD][m][/TD][TD]4.80E+03[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]4.80E+03[/TD][TD]4.80E+03[/TD][TD]3.29E+06[/TD][TD]9.92E+06[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]3.29E+06[/TD][TD]2.26E+09[/TD][TD]6.81E+09[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][TD]9.92E+06[/TD][TD]6.81E+09[/TD][TD]2.05E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC1[/TD][TD]4.80E+07[/TD][TD]4.80E+05[/TD][TD]3.29E+08[/TD][TD]9.92E+08[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC2[/TD][TD]2.26E+11[/TD][TD]3.29E+07[/TD][TD]2.26E+10[/TD][TD]6.81E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC3[/TD][TD]7.12E+12[/TD][TD]1.85E+08[/TD][TD]1.27E+11[/TD][TD]3.82E+11[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

Edited June 3, 2015 by toadicus

[MOARdV]

In general I think that would be the cooler way to do things, but it involves me learning a lot of tech that I'm not already familiar with. I'll take a glance over Extraplanetary Launchpads (and maybe Kerbinside) about how to "launch" craft from other locations and see how feasible I think it is for this mod.

Let me jump in with a related comment, now that I (finally) got a chance to look at this mod today: I like the idea of ground stations for deep-space communication. I personally don't see a need to have multiple physical ground stations - I'd be happy with an abstract "Ground station is here" in the map view. As long as the station presence is configurable, that'd also allow me to add the other KSC to the ground station list, for instance, without having to worry about exactly placing a station model so it doesn't intersect the existing buildings.

Something I think could be interesting is to keep the current "All of Kerbin is a ground station", but severely restrict the range (low orbit? Or low orbit, but extending further with tracking station upgrades). That allows the early space program to manage low orbit without losing contact. KSC (and other ground stations) could be deep-space relays, and a connection to one of them would be required to stay in touch with craft leaving the Kerbin SoI.

For players who want a physical station, there's nothing stopping them from creating a craft with a long range antenna and dropping it somewhere else on Kerbin. Similarly, with the "all of Kerbin" short range capability, a player could launch deep space relay satellites into high orbit over Kerbin.

I haven't thought too hard about this idea, so maybe there's some problems with it, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

[OddFunction]

@toadicus

Are you planning integration with this mod at any point in the future?

KSP-KVC

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79745-1-0-2-KSP-AVC-Add-on-Version-Checker-Plugin-1-1-5-MiniAVC-KSP-AVC-Online

[Fraz86]

Toadicus,

Just my 2 cents, but I am leery of calibrating KSC2 + DTS to be "in-range of Duna during ideal transfer window." I much prefer the simplicity of "KSC2 + DTS is always in range of Duna." The latter is significantly more straightforward, and more friendly to the "average Joe" player. Moreover, I do not see how the former contributes to fun gameplay. It would be distinctly un-fun to lose a probe due to a transfer that turns out to be suboptimal.

On an unrelated note, I made an excel file that automatically provides practical descriptions of each antenna combination's range (see below). Pink cells are input, blue cells are output. Download here if you'd like to play around with it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1qsd03wysddycj/AntennaRange.xlsx?dl=0

EDIT:

Here is an example of some numbers that feel "right" to me:

You can download the excel file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8e0j41xhd2djztj/AntennaRange2.xlsx?dl=0

Edited June 3, 2015 by Fraz86

[toadicus]

MoarDV Something like "KSC1 for all of Kerbin" isn't a bad idea. But, I don't think "KSC3 for all of Kerbin" is a bad idea, either, so I might not be a good judge. Anyone else have a thought on that?

mega_newblar, no I'm not. If you're looking for an easier way to manage your mod versions than "manually", my current preference is CKAN. I like it especially because it can't break my mods, even if it tries.

Fraz86, I've had very similar thoughts about the Kerbin->Duna ("window only") range. if I could reduce DTS+KSC2 by like 75% by doing that, it'd be more attractive. But for 30%, it's a bit meh. Also: thanks for the "plain english" idea on the spreadsheet; it even helped me to think about it.

Here's my new thoughts on ranges for an all-stock game:

[TABLE][TR][TD][TABLE][TR][TD][/TD][TD]From→[/TD][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]To↓[/TD][TD][m][/TD][TD]1.80E+04[/TD][TD]7.00E+09[/TD][TD]4.00E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]1.80E+04[/TD][TD]1.80E+04[/TD][TD]1.12E+07[/TD][TD]2.68E+07[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]7.00E+09[/TD][TD]1.12E+07[/TD][TD]7.00E+09[/TD][TD]1.67E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][TD]4.00E+10[/TD][TD]2.68E+07[/TD][TD]1.67E+10[/TD][TD]4.00E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC1[/TD][TD]8.00E+05[/TD][TD]1.20E+05[/TD][TD]7.48E+07[/TD][TD]1.79E+08[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC2[/TD][TD]2.00E+11[/TD][TD]6.00E+07[/TD][TD]3.74E+10[/TD][TD]8.94E+10[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]KSC3[/TD][TD]2.25E+12[/TD][TD]2.01E+08[/TD][TD]1.25E+11[/TD][TD]3.00E+11[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][TD][TABLE][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD][/TD][TD][/TD][TD][/TD][TD][/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]To↓ From→[/TD][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]Comm. 16[/TD][TD]<Kerbin Orbit[/TD][TD]Kerbisynchronous Orbit[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Mun[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]Comms DTS[/TD][TD]Kerbisynchronous Orbit[/TD][TD]Jool's Moons[/TD][TD]Jool's Moons[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]Comm. 88-88[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Mun[/TD][TD]Jool's Moons[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Duna[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]KSC1[/TD][TD]Low Kerbin Orbit[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Minmus[/TD][TD]Kerbin SOI[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]KSC2[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Minmus[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Duna[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Jool[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]|[/TD][TD]KSC3[/TD][TD]Kerbin SOI[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Jool[/TD][TD]Kerbin->Eeloo[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

The most significant differences from your recommendation below is the LKO range on whip->KSC1 is almost doubled, so players who don't skate the ragged edge of the atmosphere can still get a link (remember 7.07e+4 is only 70,700 m; that's not a lot of leeway!), and 88-88->88-88 can now stretch all the way to Duna, allowing for some interesting possibilities with interplanetary relay systems. I often think it would be interesting to set up a relay network around Duna's orbit to expedite transmissions from a theoretical Laythe base. It also brings whip->whip up to 18 km, which makes it way more useful for rovers and such. Or really seat-of-the-pants lander/mothership connections.

Edited June 3, 2015 by toadicus