[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[rkman]

3 hours ago, rasta013 said:

Some of the points to remember is that, the closer the link, the faster the nominal transmission speed becomes.  

Right. But what i'm seeing is that the mod typically takes the longer path (links that are further away, not the closer links), often with more hops than the shorter path.

In other words, it behaves different than how you describe it should behave.

 

save file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6gv6nixi3kt5m2i/rkman_persistent.rar?dl=0

Edited May 31, 2016 by rkman

[rasta013]

56 minutes ago, rkman said:

Right. But what i'm seeing is that the mod typically takes the longer path (links that are further away, not the closer links), often with more hops than the shorter path.

In other words, it behaves different than how you describe it should behave.

 

save file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6gv6nixi3kt5m2i/rkman_persistent.rar?dl=0

'll see if I can get your save game up and running to take a look at it as I'm really curious now.  Something I forgot to clarify better, it isn't the number of hops.  It's only the next hop that matters for the purposes of each antenna.  It's looking for the closest/best link it can make with all things considered and even though the logical thing is to jump right to Kerbin when in LOS if the numbers tell it to jump to Minmus, it'll do it.  I especially see this type of behavior on my games in the local system as craft with the 88-88 start heading out.  Again though, I'm really curious so will do my best to get your game loaded up and take a look.

UPDATE:

OK so your game loaded just fine and seeing is 200% of the battle in this case.  Should've thought about this while outside the game rather than responding to posts between burns LOL.  Here's my results and you'll get the same, then I'll explain

Spoiler

(In MiTs/EC Cost format)

1st Rocket Probe
90/15 Targetting Kerbin

Scanner 1
15/15 Targetting XLand_Test @ Kerbin (had changed to Kerbin by the time I cycled through the other probes)

Mun Comsat
90/15 Targetting Kerbin

Scanner 1mj
90/15 Targetting Kerbin

Mun Miner
90/15 Targetting Kerbin

Minmus Miner
2.25/0.375 Targetting Kerbin

IPEX
2.12/0.3 Targetting Kerbin

Jool 1
84.6/12 Targetting Kerbin

XLand_Test
84.6/12 Targetting Kerbin

So as you can see, with the exception of Scanner 1, all the probes have Kerbin listed as their relay.  Scanner 1 had changed to Kerbin by the time I cycled through the others and came back to it so I'm guessing there was a tiny LOS issue when I first check it.  Now the explanation...

The pretty lines are not your actual links.  They are showing the potential links that could be made to any given craft from any given craft at the time you have it selected.  To find out exactly which antenna your relaying though you need to right click the antenna and look at the relay info listed there.  If you go through all your craft you should find the same thing.  I was reading way too much into what you've been asking (hence the read while not playing comment I made LOL).  I was thinking you were listing the links being made as if you were pulling the info from the antennas and not purely the potential link lines.  The lines are there purely to show you the condition of any given connection that can be made from a particular craft.  It helps you when determining whether or not you want to improve a link (if you see it yellow) or add one (if you see it red).  The pure data information though must still be pulled from the right click menu.  I apologize for all my back and forth over this as I could've answered this right off if I wasn't over thinking it.  Hope this clears up the confusion that I most likely caused.

Edited May 31, 2016 by rasta013

[toadicus]

@Uzric, and anyone else who is having trouble with the mod only when using additive ranges, do you have any logs I can look at, or simple reproduction steps?  Things should definitely be working just fine on the pad even in a completely virgin save, and I've not previously been aware of any compatibility issues with the mods you listed (some of which I use myself).

@rkman and @rasta013: the last version added cost analysis to the network resolution, so relays should always use the cheapest paths.  If everything has the same antenna on it, that means in general they should always favor direct-to-Kerbin paths, or in some cases paths using relays that are very very close to the origin, but also closer to Kerbin.  A flat dish at Mun using a flat dish at Minmus only makes sense if the flat dish at Mun doesn't have LOS to Kerbin, and needs to bounce off the Minmus relay to get home.  Dissimilar dishes may behave very differently; a whip antenna at Mun probably still shouldn't prefer a big Dish at Minmus (because Minmus is actually farther from Mun than is Kerbin), but it might still prefer a relay on a 

Now, reading rasta's last makes me wonder if you're seeing pretty lines in the wrong places?  The green and yellow lines should always only represent the actual active links for a given craft.  Only red links are speculative.

I tried loading up your save, rkman, but it wanted a mod I don't have (MechJeb, maybe?) so a bunch of ships got lost.  I added a few medium-dish relays with hyperedit, and while I"m not certain I'm seeing the same behavior you're describing, I'm definitely seeing something wrong.  If nothing else, it looks like the links for unloaded vessels are inappropriately favoring the active vessel.  The active vessel seems to be choosing intelligently, otherwise.

I don't have time this morning to dig deeper, but I'll try to get to it this week.

Edited May 31, 2016 by toadicus

[rkman]

On 31-5-2016 at 6:05 PM, toadicus said:

The active vessel seems to be choosing intelligently, otherwise.

If it has LOS of Kerbin, yes. 

But if it hasn't then it prefers a far-away antenna  over an antenna closer by (of the same type) that has LOS to Kerbin.

(btw my reports about this issue are based on the green lines)

 

[rasta013]

On 5/31/2016 at 11:05 AM, toadicus said:

Now, reading rasta's last makes me wonder if you're seeing pretty lines in the wrong places?  The green and yellow lines should always only represent the actual active links for a given craft.  Only red links are speculative

 

33 minutes ago, rkman said:

If it has LOS of Kerbin, yes. 

But if it hasn't then it prefers a far-away antenna  over an antenna closer by (of the same type) that has LOS to Kerbin.

(btw my reports about this issue are based on the green lines)

 

When I loaded his save game I was seeing basically the same things he was reporting.  The green lines are showing but link to every single craft that is in range and LOS.  The right click menu was showing all the antennas connecting to Kerbin though.  I'll take a screenshot and post it on this message later today when I'm at my system to demonstrate what I mean and I'd be interested to know also if @rkman has the same thing displayed on his end.

Edited June 1, 2016 by rasta013

[Gordon Dry]

Why does a H1X from

shows Nominal Range 222Gm when the patch file says
GameData\PhantomAerospace\Patches\Antenna Range.cfg

Spoiler

@PART[helixAntenna]:NEEDS[AntennaRange]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter]
	{
		@name = ModuleLimitedDataTransmitter
		nominalRange = 70000000
		maxPowerFactor = 8
		maxDataFactor = 4
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleScienceContainer

		dataIsCollectable = true
		dataIsStorable = false

		storageRange = 2
	}
}

 

and RemoteTech correctly says that the range is 70Mm or 70,000Km - so why is the info in the part info window so wrong?
 

[Gordon Dry]

The compatibility patch for ORIGAMI has not the same folder structure than ORIGAMI itself.

[rasta013]

5 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Why does a H1X fromshows Nominal Range 222Gm when the patch file says
GameData\PhantomAerospace\Patches\Antenna Range.cfg

and RemoteTech correctly says that the range is 70Mm or 70,000Km - so why is the info in the part info window so wrong?
 

 

42 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

The compatibility patch for ORIGAMI has not the same folder structure than ORIGAMI itself.

#1 - The nominal range listed in the patch file is the base number used for computation of ranges within the game based on distance of the link and the PF of the antenna.  Also, there can't really be any kind of support made for AR or RT either one with both of them installed.  They have different ranges for antennas, operate differently and change things about how the antennas work that will make them incompatible.

#2 - I had to completely restructure the directory structure to solve some problems with the purely RT version of the ORIGAMI release.  The dev has the updated files/patches but never released them.  If you notice, on the wiki I state that my link is to an updated version that has a different directory structure.  You have to remove the old version and install the new.  I will update the wiki page to state this, thanks!

Edited June 3, 2016 by rasta013

[Skunk]

First of all thanks toadicus for the mod, I love it and thanks rasta013 for the many patches.
I've had some bugs with stock antennas not working with AR anymore but it was due to the ORIGAMI patch, it needs to be installed with the structure provided by rasta013 like he said just above.

I did not find any patches for CONTARES even tough it was mentionned in this thread, the link on the wiki is for Tantares.
And the patch for AIES is a dead link.

I still have some questions about distances, if I look at my actual communotron16, it says maximum range to Kerbin 72.3Mm, is this 72 300 Mm (72.3Gm) or 72.3Mm (72300 Km) ?
I'm trying to build a network for interplanetary comms (with outer planet mod) and according to the max separation on that link I am waaaaaay underpowered

Edited June 12, 2016 by Skunk

[rasta013]

9 hours ago, Skunk said:

First of all thanks toadicus for the mod, I love it and thanks rasta013 for the many patches.
I've had some bugs with stock antennas not working with AR anymore but it was due to the ORIGAMI patch, it needs to be installed with the structure provided by rasta013 like he said just above.

I did not find any patches for CONTARES even tough it was mentionned in this thread, the link on the wiki is for Tantares.
And the patch for AIES is a dead link.

I still have some questions about distances, if I look at my actual communotron16, it says maximum range to Kerbin 72.3Mm, is this 72 300 Mm (72.3Gm) or 72.3Mm (72300 Km) ?
I'm trying to build a network for interplanetary comms (with outer planet mod) and according to the max separation on that link I am waaaaaay underpowered

The CONTARES antenna patch was being built by the maintainer of that mod.  I don't know if he ever completed work on that bit of his project or gave up.  If he gave up, I will gladly write something for it.  There's some really cool looking antennas in that pack.  Thanks for the update on the AIES patch.  I'll get that fixed momentarily

As for ranges...yes, that's actually in meters.  The nomenclature in use is m (meters), Mm (million meters), Gm (billion meters).  So when you see a max range of 72.3 Mm you are seeing a range of 72,300,000.  For reference, Minmus is 47 Mm (47,000,000m).   And as you've seen, RT ranges have absolutely no comparison to AR ranges.  The systems naturally work differently.  I would recommend reading the details on the math behind how AR works.  This will help immensely in building AR relay networks since the numbers are not exposed in game anywhere.  The numbers in game only represent antenna-to-KSC communication distances and the ranges between two antennas will be very, very different.  If you read it and it still isn't making good sense just ask again and I'll write up a detailed how-to for determining the specifics of how all these numbers work together with examples.

Edited June 13, 2016 by rasta013

[Sarxis]

Have you heard about the upcoming antenna updates coming to stock KSP?

[rasta013]

1 hour ago, Sarxis said:

Have you heard about the upcoming antenna updates coming to stock KSP?

It should be....interesting.  Not to be sarcastic or anything, truly.  Seriously though, they are finally putting some things in that needed to be there for a very long time so that's a good thing.  Implementation is the question at this point...

[Tyko]

Will the current build work with 1.1.3?

[RoverDude]

On 6/16/2016 at 10:18 PM, rasta013 said:

It should be....interesting.  Not to be sarcastic or anything, truly.  Seriously though, they are finally putting some things in that needed to be there for a very long time so that's a good thing.  Implementation is the question at this point...

I hear it's going to be pretty cool...

[rasta013]

15 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

I hear it's going to be pretty cool...

LOL...well I'd think you might have a bit of an idea.  Looking forward to see what's comin'...

[AndrewHere]

Does this work on 1.1.3?

[npt]

1 hour ago, AndrewHere said:

Does this work on 1.1.3?

Yes IME.

[rasta013]

Yeah it works perfectly.  I've not seen a single AR related issue in 1.1.3.

[toadicus]

Hey all!  I've got a request to make.  I've been gone a lot the last few months: mostly because of work and a few family vacations, but also because I'm having trouble fitting modding time into my schedule these days.  It's nothing to do with whatever has apparently been going on around the forums that Scott Manley's talked about, or anything that Squad has done or is doing, it's just that my life is busy and as time wears on my life gets busier and the work of modding slowly gets less enjoyable.  It's also been a long time since I've actually played KSP: I only turn it on to test mods.

This isn't "I'm done".  I've got a few updates pending that I really need to finish and get out.  I'm committed to finishing those and making sure all of my mods work correctly with KSP 1.1.3.  I also plan to finish up VOID 1.0 and get that released.  I'm also not ready to say "I'm done", because if the mood strikes me I'd love for the mods to still be here for me to work on and keep sharing with you.

I want to take a minute to emphasize that it has been an absolute joy writing these mods, learning so much about programming from them, and sharing them with you.  Our communities have been extremely friendly, and having you all along for the journey with me has really been fantastic.  There have been many of you that really stand out as going the extra mile to help with support in the threads, and it is so pleasing to see how when I'm out (or even just asleep), you guys are still here helping each other.

So, if this isn't "I'm done", what is it?  For now, this is "I'd like some help".  Most of my mods are basically in maintenance mode at this point.  I've got some bugs to fix in AntennaRange, a feature to fix and a feature to add in TweakableEverything, and the Scripted functionality to finish in VOID.  I'm going to get those done one way or another -- probably on my own, hopefully next week.  But past that, the mods really just need some TLC every time Squad updates the game, and when a new player turns over a bit of untested code in a corner to find a bug or defect.

If you're interested, please e-mail me: my address is andy (at) wtribe (dotcom), and I'd love to hear from you.  You don't need to be a C# expert, but programming experience seems pretty necessary.  I'm happy to hold your hand through things and help you learn -- that's how I learned, and I'm entirely willing to share what I've learned with you.  Write me a quick letter -- maybe a couple of paragraphs -- so I can tell you're not a robot, and in the letter just try to convince me that you're right for the projects and willing to do what you can to keep these mods successful, and these threads positive.

I'm cross-posting this on the threads for all my mods.  Thanks again for being awesome!

[Nightside]

Thanks for all your work! Its always made the game more fun to play.

[StormxWolf]

Does this mod still work? I just tested it out and it seems that the lines aren't being drawn and the range limitations aren't kicking in. I tested it out on 64 Bit in a sandbox save as a test bed.

 

EDIT: Didn't install correctly, sorry.

Edited July 12, 2016 by StormxWolf

[Maars]

Toadicus you rock for making this mod.  

Thank you and all the best to you

[stub]

If you are having trouble, grab AR 1.11.3 from the Space Dock link on the first page of this thread - http://spacedock.info/mod/286/AntennaRange . This includes the built dependencies (ToadaliciousTools and EVA Manager), unlike the github release. Its not flagged as KSP 1.1.3++ compatible in CKAN so it needs manual installation until that gets updated.

[Sarxis]

On 7/10/2016 at 8:09 PM, toadicus said:

I want to take a minute to emphasize that it has been an absolute joy writing these mods... Thanks again for being awesome!

Thank YOU for being awesome!  You folks in the modding community contribute so much to our games, and especially KSP.  

[waterlubber]

Will there be support for Ven's revamp antennas? I would love to use them alongside the stock ones, as they are quite nice.