[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[Tivec]

Are you using RT antennas ? If so guessing you did delete the RT plugin and all the CFG in KSP/GameData/RT folder all them cfg need delete don't touch the parts folder and texture and you should be good.

Yes, I deleted the config files there. However, Fusebox is still reporting 12.5 energy usage.

Also, a question, if I require line of sight and connection for probe control, shouldn't I lose contact when the KSC is below the horizon? Or is it line of sight to Kerbin or a satellite that has line of sight to Kerbin?

Edit: Maybe searching is a plan... I found the reason why it is set up so that Kerbin always has connection, and that's fine. If I understand it right, being behind the Mun without a satellite to relay the signal through would mean I would have no connection (and probes would be dead).

Edited November 2, 2014 by Tivec

[toadicus]

Yes, I deleted the config files there. However, Fusebox is still reporting 12.5 energy usage.

Also, a question, if I require line of sight and connection for probe control, shouldn't I lose contact when the KSC is below the horizon? Or is it line of sight to Kerbin or a satellite that has line of sight to Kerbin?

The LOS requirement is specifically to Kerbin, not to KSC. Requiring LOS to KSC seems needlessly punitive and unrealistic to me. Even the earliest Real Life spaceflights tracked their ships around the world using surface-based communications networks with varying international participation, navy ships, etc., to get messages back. Just because Squad hasn't modeled cities all over Kerbin doesn't mean the Kerbals can't do the same.

[Tivec]

The LOS requirement is specifically to Kerbin, not to KSC. Requiring LOS to KSC seems needlessly punitive and unrealistic to me. Even the earliest Real Life spaceflights tracked their ships around the world using surface-based communications networks with varying international participation, navy ships, etc., to get messages back. Just because Squad hasn't modeled cities all over Kerbin doesn't mean the Kerbals can't do the same.

Yes, I edited my response. I will be setting up a small constellation of satellites capable of communicating to Mun and Minmus. I take it I need to have connection both ways for it to work, right? So a relay at Kerbin with range to reach Mun, and a relay at Mun with range to reach the Kerbin relay?

[toadicus]

Yes, I edited my response. I will be setting up a small constellation of satellites capable of communicating to Mun and Minmus. I take it I need to have connection both ways for it to work, right? So a relay at Kerbin with range to reach Mun, and a relay at Mun with range to reach the Kerbin relay?

At this point no, range checks are only modeled in the "transmitter->receiver" direction, so generally from the active craft inward to Kerbin along the shortest relay path. So if you have a constellation of whip antennae in KSO, and a Medium Dish out at Minmus, you'll use the shorter range to KSO instead of the full range to Kerbin.

This is because signal strength is proportional to the product of the gains of both antenna, in both directions. The whip antenna isn't as good at talking, but the medium dish is just as much better at listening as it is at talking.

Of course, this means you should also be able to do the opposite, i.e. use a whip antenna out at Eeloo and pick it up with a big dish near Kerbin... but at this point you can't.

[Tivec]

At this point no, range checks are only modeled in the "transmitter->receiver" direction, so generally from the active craft inward to Kerbin along the shortest relay path. So if you have a constellation of whip antennae in KSO, and a Medium Dish out at Minmus, you'll use the shorter range to KSO instead of the full range to Kerbin.

This is because signal strength is proportional to the product of the gains of both antenna, in both directions. The whip antenna isn't as good at talking, but the medium dish is just as much better at listening as it is at talking.

Of course, this means you should also be able to do the opposite, i.e. use a whip antenna out at Eeloo and pick it up with a big dish near Kerbin... but at this point you can't.

I'm not sure what you mean with the Eeloo-Kerbin thing here. I understand the shortest relay path here, and your description of signal strength would it not mean that if a probe at Eeloo has a whip, it would be able to communicate with Kerbin if I have a big dish there? Or does it only search in the distance of the small whip?

[toadicus]

I'm not sure what you mean with the Eeloo-Kerbin thing here. I understand the shortest relay path here, and your description of signal strength would it not mean that if a probe at Eeloo has a whip, it would be able to communicate with Kerbin if I have a big dish there? Or does it only search in the distance of the small whip?

It should be able to, in theory, I think, but in AntennaRange it can't. The long range antenna needs to be on the transmitter's side because the rangefinding radius is based on the part trying to transmit.

[Mecripp]

If you have a big dish there the whip should transmit to the big dish then the dish to kerbin.

EDIT- was thinking when you transmit it tell's what it's transmitting to and range like the whip would transmit to big dish.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Mecripp2

[Tivec]

It should be able to, in theory, I think, but in AntennaRange it can't. The long range antenna needs to be on the transmitter's side because the rangefinding radius is based on the part trying to transmit.

Ok, got it.

As for balance, do you think it would be possible to add some form of antenna drain? It seems a bit weird that a probe core + RTG + dish could keep communication up over very long distances. A drain would force solar panels and/or more RTGs.

[Mecripp]

@toadicus did https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/AntennaRange_Stay_Deployed_1.cfg.zip not work for you as it looked like a hit and miss one time all good and then, I played with just stock and trying to write a cfg for just stock then seen your post and put all back in test install and it didn't work is why, I made the 2nd cfg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/AntennaRange_Stay_Deployed_2.cfg.zip but did see if, I put AdvancedAnimator plugin then cfg 1 works and don't know why that is.

[Noio]

I have a "quality-of-life" feature request:

I think it would be useful to have the toolbar icon change in some way when the controlled vessel is inside that 5% 'fudge factor' window as line-of-sight is about to be lost or gained. A little visual cue to tell me that I'd better get things sorted because I'm about to lose my control link would be a huge boon.

Thanks, and keep up the good work!

[toadicus]

MeCripp: I've never looked at AdvancedAnimator, so I'm not sure. I'll try to take a look when I get a chance. I'm guessing it completely replaces the ModuleAnimateGeneric with a more robust implementation of the same interfaces.

Noio: Currently the icon turns yellow once you pass the "halfway point", or so. If I added something at that 95% range, would it actually be useful? It seems to me that by the time you're there you probably have seconds of game time to do what you need to do, but I confess that since I don't use the probe-disabling option myself, I don't have any direct experience. Just want to make sure that if I put something like this in, it gives people enough time to actually do something useful (like... point your solar panels at the sun so you don't run out of juice before you get your comms back?).

Would a red exclamation point or something be good enough? If this really is a last-minute thing it seems like some kind of animated warning would be helpful, like flashing the icon or something. I'm not sure how well toolbar and applauncher support that kind of thing, but I'll look in to it.

[Mecripp]

MeCripp: I've never looked at AdvancedAnimator, so I'm not sure. I'll try to take a look when I get a chance. I'm guessing it completely replaces the ModuleAnimateGeneric with a more robust implementation of the same interfaces.

Noio: Currently the icon turns yellow once you pass the "halfway point", or so. If I added something at that 95% range, would it actually be useful? It seems to me that by the time you're there you probably have seconds of game time to do what you need to do, but I confess that since I don't use the probe-disabling option myself, I don't have any direct experience. Just want to make sure that if I put something like this in, it gives people enough time to actually do something useful (like... point your solar panels at the sun so you don't run out of juice before you get your comms back?).

Would a red exclamation point or something be good enough? If this really is a last-minute thing it seems like some kind of animated warning would be helpful, like flashing the icon or something. I'm not sure how well toolbar and applauncher support that kind of thing, but I'll look in to it.

Your right on AdvancedAnimator that is what it does but the funny thing is, I don't have in 1 of the installs cfg 1 works in which has really got me puzzled why it works in some installs but not all, I had a guy test cfg 1 and he said it worked fine so, I really don't know.

[toadicus]

I never installed your files directly, but I did the same thing as your "cfg 1" in a separate MM patch and it worked fine for me. The antennas didn't retract, but that's to be expected when isOneShot = true.

[Mecripp]

Need help now lol think, I found better way but, I'm breaking things scratch.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Mecripp2

[Noio]

Currently the icon turns yellow once you pass the "halfway point", or so. If I added something at that 95% range, would it actually be useful? It seems to me that by the time you're there you probably have seconds of game time to do what you need to do, but I confess that since I don't use the probe-disabling option myself, I don't have any direct experience. Just want to make sure that if I put something like this in, it gives people enough time to actually do something useful (like... point your solar panels at the sun so you don't run out of juice before you get your comms back?).

Would a red exclamation point or something be good enough? If this really is a last-minute thing it seems like some kind of animated warning would be helpful, like flashing the icon or something. I'm not sure how well toolbar and applauncher support that kind of thing, but I'll look in to it.

I apologize, I don't think I explained it correctly. Let me try again:

I have no complaints about the range indicator - I think the yellow icon when you're in degraded service is just fine.

What I'm wishing for is some kind of 'line-of-sight' indicator - if I'm in the 5% line-of-sight fudge-factor window (meaning I'm about to lose LOS) I'd really love to see something in the icon change so I know I'd better hurry up. Since this condition can occur in both the 'green' and 'yellow' ranges, I'm not sure that a color would fit the bill, but yeah, any little visual change in the icon would be welcomed (even a little ! in the corner).

[Mecripp]

Was thinking but can't get it to work any better then just running CFG 2 was to do like stock did with the light on the dish and that was to make it look like

MODULE
{
   name = ModuleAnimateGeneric
   animationName = antenna
   isOneShot = false

   startEventGUIName = Extend
   endEventGUIName = Retract
   actionGUIName = Toggle Antenna
}

MODULE
        {
               name = ModuleAnimateGeneric
               animationName = antenna
               isOneShot = false

               startEventGUIName = Extend
               allowManualControl = false
         }

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleDataTransmitter

	packetInterval = 0.4
	packetSize = 2

	packetResourceCost = 10.0
	requiredResource = ElectricCharge

        DeployFxModules = 1
}

[cantab]

Seems like a really great mod, bringing the essentials of space communication and relaying without all the complexity of RemoteTech. I do seem to have a minor bug though. After transmitting data, I can't manually extend or retract the antenna I used. Even restarting the game doesn't help. Linux 64-bit, sandbox mode, only mods are this and FAR.

(Yes, I know transmitting is pointless in sandbox mode, but it's proof-of-principle stuff.)

[toadicus]

cantab, are you using any of the patches in the last few posts that stop the antenna from retracting after a transmission, especially any that include "isOneShot = true"? I play exclusively on Linux 64-bit and haven't seen any funniness with the retraction unless I'm using of those patches.

[cantab]

Nothing but the basic AntennaRange install straight off kerbalstuff.

PS: Another possible minor bug: I can take the handbrake off by clicking the icon by the altimeter, even when I otherwise cannot control the probe rover in question. No idea if that's specific to AntennaRange or if it happens in stock with uncontrollable probe rovers.

Edited November 14, 2014 by cantab

[Mecripp]

Seems like a really great mod, bringing the essentials of space communication and relaying without all the complexity of RemoteTech. I do seem to have a minor bug though. After transmitting data, I can't manually extend or retract the antenna I used. Even restarting the game doesn't help. Linux 64-bit, sandbox mode, only mods are this and FAR.

(Yes, I know transmitting is pointless in sandbox mode, but it's proof-of-principle stuff.)

This should let you extend and retract antenna and transmit no matter what https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/AntennaRange_Stay_Deployed_2.cfg.zip retract or extended.

[toadicus]

Nothing but the basic AntennaRange install straight off kerbalstuff.

PS: Another possible minor bug: I can take the handbrake off by clicking the icon by the altimeter, even when I otherwise cannot control the probe rover in question. No idea if that's specific to AntennaRange or if it happens in stock with uncontrollable probe rovers.

I'll took in to the extension/retraction as soon as I get a chance (might be the weekend). In the meantime MeCripp's patch will probably give you all the freedom you could ask for as regards antenna deployment.

Regarding the handbrake button, I'm locking out ALL_SHIP_CONTROLS, which is a huge blanket that shuts off everything and includes GROUPS_BRAKE, which should prevent the "brakes" action group from toggling. I'll tinker with this a bit this weekend as well, but if the brakes aren't actually locked out that is probably a Squad issue.

[toadicus]

I've taken a look at the deploy/retraction actions after transmission, and the new behavior of locking out control after the first transmission appears to be a stock behavior.

As I mentioned a page or two ago, I'm going to add some manipulation to the antenna animations that will give users more freedom without allowing transmission from closed dishes, which will "fix" this issue in that it will supplant it entirely. I was going to roll that in to my slow progress on AR2, but I may move that up based on these findings.

[Mecripp]

I've taken a look at the deploy/retraction actions after transmission, and the new behavior of locking out control after the first transmission appears to be a stock behavior.

As I mentioned a page or two ago, I'm going to add some manipulation to the antenna animations that will give users more freedom without allowing transmission from closed dishes, which will "fix" this issue in that it will supplant it entirely. I was going to roll that in to my slow progress on AR2, but I may move that up based on these findings.

Can't wait to see if, I can break something hehe.

[Maars]

Firstly Toadicus, love your mod, thank you for adding flavour to the game. I do have a question however, and hopefully it's not too ignorant as I've perused the thread here and not found any info on it. "perused" mind you, not studied so maybe the answer to my question is here to be found. My antenna connection button is always red and even when the signal is supposed to be blocked I have control over my probe. is it because i'm using 64bit or I just did something wrong? although I don't know what that could be as it's a simple-to-use mod. it used to work on my 0.242 64bit but now on 0.25 it's kind of broken, it won't let me send data when blocked, only stores it, as per your new additions but I do have control over probe still... which I don't want in a situation like that. if there's a simple answer and i'm just an idiot, my apologies otherwise i'd appreciate a hint

[Mecripp]

Have you updated it ? O and sorry, ( I butt in all the time here and there ) what Antenna are you using first off ?