(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[sdj64]

So yeah, I might take this challenge. And for me, it's going to be a really big challenge: I've never been out of the Kerbal system, I usually play sandobx and try different designs of... well... everything.

I've read the rules and I have some doubts:

- "You can hack science points and funds in a new savegame to have all the parts and have enough money to go for the mission."

Can't I just use sandbox? It's the same thing: unlimited funds and all parts available.

If not, how can I hack funds and science?

- "No part-clipping."

That big cargo plane that comes with B9 (can't remember the name) has the wings clipping through some fuel tanks, into the main fuselage. Can I do things like that? (place wings going through something to stick to the fuselage)

- Mods allowed:

Quatum Struts

Hangar Extender

Editor Extension

... maybe?

I think that's all... for now.

You can use Sandbox if you don't want to try for Jeb's level (since you need to keep science experiments to return and sandbox doesn't have science points). To "hack" funds and science, you can open your new Career or Science mode save file in Notepad, it should be near the top, change it and save, then go back to KSP. I think there's an in-game way, too. For the other levels of this challenge you can play sandbox without any problem.

The clipping rules are pretty strict but you should be okay as long as you don't stack wings into each other for increased lift or clip resource-containing parts or kerbal-containing parts together.

Quantum struts is not allowed. I don't know where exactly it was ruled out but Ziv said something along the lines of "part of the challenge is to construct a ship that is stable, either by launching it as a single piece or by good engineering of docking connections". It shouldn't be hard to make a ship without it.

Also any helpful mod is accepted which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics

means that Hangar Extender and Editor Extensions are allowed.

[Norcalplanner]

I've completed my review of John FX's entry - he's good to go. Well done!

[Ziv]

John FX: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

link to the mission is here

(It could have been a Level 3 if you had each Kerbal landing on one moon...each would be trained for one landing only)

I really loved your big main ship and your docking/moon tugs, and nice landers too! And the ALCOR capsule is all right to be used as you did it, that's not advantage gaining like that.

Nice one, thank you for participating!

Edited April 19, 2015 by Ziv

[Norcalplanner]

I've completed my review of Hanniballa's low mass entry. Lots of jet packing, but not against the rules. Well done!

[Ziv]

HANNIBALLA: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 on the Level 1 low-mass challenge... AGAIN! With an awesome 7.556 tons!

the link to the mission is here

Pretty cool, I see you had some hard time leaving Kerbin but this is usual with a Jet/ion combo. It's always hard so respect!

Hmm, I liked that your Jet-only Laythe lander and yeah you can easily reach several hundreds of kms apoapsis with rocketing (jetting) out of the atmosphere. And I did the same "rescue mission" for the Kerbal with the ion lander in my low-mass entry too! These are epic low-mass solutions there!

But using so much EVA propellant at the end is getting to be too tricky... I accept it but it's on the edge!

This is funny because most of the mission could be done by EVA this way, hehe...

Awesome mission, thank you for participating!

[HoloYolo]

HANNIBALLA: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 on the Level 1 low-mass challenge... AGAIN! With an awesome 7.556 tons!

the link to the mission is here

Pretty cool, I see you had some hard time leaving Kerbin but this is usual with a Jet/ion combo. It's always hard so respect!

Hmm, I liked that your Jet-only Laythe lander and yeah you can easily reach several hundreds of kms apoapsis with rocketing (jetting) out of the atmosphere. And I did the same "rescue mission" for the Kerbal with the ion lander in my low-mass entry too! These are epic low-mass solutions there!

But using so much EVA propellant at the end is getting to be too tricky... I accept it but it's on the edge!

This is funny because most of the mission could be done by EVA this way, hehe...

Awesome mission, thank you for participating!

Man I want to do this challenge so bad. Have the Swag Badge. Is there a delta-v chart anywhere?

[Ziv]

purpleivan: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 3!

link to the mission is here

Your mission has some really notable aspects! At first you put your main ship in an orbit around Jool (between Laythe and Vall). This is so much more easier and cheaper in dV than to go back into a given orbit around a moon!

And second you brought the ion-lander to Tylo and left it in orbit as the return vehicle, awesome idea!!!

Landing on Tylo needs around 6000 m/s but getting into low-orbit and going out also needs about 2x 1000 m/s (or more?) so bringing the low-mass ion lander is just a number one solution, now I learned something new.

This is what makes me motivated to run this challenge, to see awesome solutions and ideas!

And good distribution of the landers and Kerbals later on too, very nice mission, thank you for participating!

[John FX]

John FX: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

link to the mission is here

(It could have been a Level 3 if you had each Kerbal landing on one moon...each would be trained for one landing only)

I really loved your big main ship and your docking/moon tugs, and nice landers too! And the ALCOR capsule is all right to be used as you did it, that's not advantage gaining like that.

Nice one, thank you for participating!

Thank you very much. I did actually redo the mission with 6 kerbals and land a different kerbal on each moon in a unique lander later although that mission has not been judged yet.

I've completed the rerun of my Jool 5 mission with 4.5T extra useless mass attached to the HAB unit to offset the two ALCOR pods to be absolutely within the rules as stated so far. I also carried three more landers and an extra kerbal to qualify for level 3 by landing a unique lander on each moon with 5 different kerbals (and a spare one just trained for the main craft)

[Ziv]

Norcalplanner, HANNIBALLA, parzr, sdj64, Nik333, Red Iron Crown: thank you guys for helping me out, I really appreciate it! Let me know if any of you have made the three review for the Judge badge!

- - - Updated - - -

- "You can hack science points and funds in a new savegame to have all the parts and have enough money to go for the mission."

Can't I just use sandbox? It's the same thing: unlimited funds and all parts available.

If not, how can I hack funds and science?

It is for Jebediah's Level only where science counts. Hacking is made by editing the save file (funds=XXX are for money and sci=XXX for science points).

- "No part-clipping."

That big cargo plane that comes with B9 (can't remember the name) has the wings clipping through some fuel tanks, into the main fuselage. Can I do things like that? (place wings going through something to stick to the fuselage)

- Mods allowed:

Quatum Struts

Hangar Extender

Editor Extension

... maybe?

1. Wings going across anything is definitely not allowed.

2. Quantum struts are strictly prohibited. Come on, it's already too easy to build huge ships!

3. if Hangar Extension just makes the hangar bigger then it's all right.

4. What does Editor Exstension? If it just makes stock building easier without modifiying the parts then it's all right.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you very much. I did actually redo the mission with 6 kerbals and land a different kerbal on each moon in a unique lander later although that mission has not been judged yet.

Oh, and did you link that mission too?

[HANNIBALLA]

HANNIBALLA: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 on the Level 1 low-mass challenge... AGAIN! With an awesome 7.556 tons!

the link to the mission is here

Pretty cool, I see you had some hard time leaving Kerbin but this is usual with a Jet/ion combo. It's always hard so respect!

Hmm, I liked that your Jet-only Laythe lander and yeah you can easily reach several hundreds of kms apoapsis with rocketing (jetting) out of the atmosphere. And I did the same "rescue mission" for the Kerbal with the ion lander in my low-mass entry too! These are epic low-mass solutions there!

But using so much EVA propellant at the end is getting to be too tricky... I accept it but it's on the edge!

This is funny because most of the mission could be done by EVA this way, hehe...

Awesome mission, thank you for participating!

Jet/Ion combo did indeed give me a lot of trouble, the dv cost when I re-entered was too high for my tastes. It was one of the reason I had to abuse jetpack later on, wasted fuel getting a circular orbit. The laythe lander was made like mesklin's, it was a way to have one less ship section. Ion engine rescues are fun, I love my Ion lander, landed everywhere except Tylo, Eve and Kerbin with it. Never intended to abuse the jetpack so much but my mission got hairy, so I adapted and overcame.

[PCanas]

Another one: yesterday I was trying some designs and managed to place 2 RTGs into a Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron. I didn't use any trick or alt+F12 clipping, it just fits there on it's own. Is this considered clipping?

[Deutherius]

Another one: yesterday I was trying some designs and managed to place 2 RTGs into a Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron. I didn't use any trick or alt+F12 clipping, it just fits there on it's own. Is this considered clipping?

From the OP:

2. No part-clipping. No clipping of pods, tanks, engines or wings into each other at all. Adapters and small part clippings are okay (cubic struts, RTG, body parts without function).

RTGs clipping is fine

[purpleivan]

purpleivan: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 3!

link to the mission is here

Your mission has some really notable aspects! At first you put your main ship in an orbit around Jool (between Laythe and Vall). This is so much more easier and cheaper in dV than to go back into a given orbit around a moon!

And second you brought the ion-lander to Tylo and left it in orbit as the return vehicle, awesome idea!!!

Landing on Tylo needs around 6000 m/s but getting into low-orbit and going out also needs about 2x 1000 m/s (or more?) so bringing the low-mass ion lander is just a number one solution, now I learned something new.

This is what makes me motivated to run this challenge, to see awesome solutions and ideas!

And good distribution of the landers and Kerbals later on too, very nice mission, thank you for participating!

Thanks Ziv... good to hear that my submission passed the review, as a few of the burns were not well documented.

I now have a new vehicle that's much lighter (1/4 mass at launch) for the challenge, which is currently in the middle of a dress rehearsal mission. I got sidetracked with some of the "max speed" challenges recently, so haven't brought it home yet. Once that's done I'll send it off with a crew on board and submit a new report, this time with better documentation .

The new mission will still make use of the ion landers for Bop and Pol, but they won't be needed as transfer vehicles, as I'll be moving the core ship between each of the moons. I could set up the new attempt in the same way as my last one and saved even more mass, but the ion transferring around the Jool system was a complication I decided to drop in favour of carrying more fuel in the core vehicle.

[Rath]

Another one: yesterday I was trying some designs and managed to place 2 RTGs into a Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron. I didn't use any trick or alt+F12 clipping, it just fits there on it's own. Is this considered clipping?

You after some update (.90?)SQUAD changed the clipping button to only allow stacking two thingws on one node and made it so two parts can be stuck inside each other.

[JedTech]

So excited that scientists can clean experiments in 1.0! That will make this challenge alot more compelling for me. (never liked having to return a science laboratory to the ground)

[Ziv]

So excited that scientists can clean experiments in 1.0! That will make this challenge alot more compelling for me. (never liked having to return a science laboratory to the ground)

Story-wise the Engineers have to make the JOOL-5 mission cheap and the Science Laboratory is expensive and it has a lot of important instruments inside so it's better if you don't leave it behind.

[JedTech]

Story-wise the Engineers have to make the JOOL-5 mission cheap and the Science Laboratory is expensive and it has a lot of important instruments inside so it's better if you don't leave it behind.

Thanks for being the driving force of the most awsome challenge in KSP. Looking forward to seeing how 1.0 affects the challenge.

[Ziv]

Thanks for being the driving force of the most awsome challenge in KSP. Looking forward to seeing how 1.0 affects the challenge.

Thank you!! Yeah, me too!

[John FX]

did you link that mission too?

Yeah but I just posted an album of images in this thread as the report was exactly the same. I also added 4.5T of extra mass to offset the ALCOR pods, just in case.

Regarding the wobble, my craft would be one of those not possible under 'old KSP' wobble situations. Mind you, the stock craft that were needed at the time probably would not launch using FAR and would burn up using DRE.

To offset the easiness of recent versions I did my mission with FAR (have to launch aerodynamic rockets) , DRE (can burn up on re-entry), Kerbalmass (adds mass of kerbal crew to pods), persistentrotation (keeps rotation when warping on rails, no more free rotation cancelling) and saturatable reaction wheels (no more infinite reaction wheel torque), all of which add their own challenges.

I've completed the rerun of my Jool 5 mission with 4.5T extra useless mass attached to the HAB unit to offset the two ALCOR pods to be absolutely within the rules as stated so far. I also carried three more landers and an extra kerbal to qualify for level 3 by landing a unique lander on each moon with 5 different kerbals (and a spare one just trained for the main craft)

Here is a load of images, they are currently uploading so might not be complete if you view within minutes of this being posted. The mission report is exactly the same as the last one...

http://imgur.com/a/qP63a

EDIT : Some of the early images appear to be out of order...

[Findthepin1]

can i build 5 landers and a mothership and put a kerbal in each, and bring each back to the mothership orbiting jool? does that count if the same guy doesn't go to multiple moons?

also is the chair allowed?

do i need to film my attempt?

EDIT: i have done a prelude in which i send a probe to jool. i have taken pictures and a video and they can be seen here (

) and i have posted about it here under the name "My final large mission before 1.0". Edited April 27, 2015 by Findthepin1
done

[PCanas]

Another doubt:

The rules say we're allowed one refueling mission. This refueling mission counts for any situtation or only to refuel the main craft when it's already in Jool (or the moons)?

I'm bulding the main craft in Kerbin orbit. My plan is to have a fuel core, a propulsion module, and a docking module. The fuel core is in orbit already, but it's nearnly empty, so I need to refuel it. This refueling counts as the refueling mission specified in the rules, or is considered as a part of the assembling process of the main craft?

[John FX]

Another doubt:

The rules say we're allowed one refueling mission. This refueling mission counts for any situtation or only to refuel the main craft when it's already in Jool (or the moons)?

I'm bulding the main craft in Kerbin orbit. My plan is to have a fuel core, a propulsion module, and a docking module. The fuel core is in orbit already, but it's nearnly empty, so I need to refuel it. This refueling counts as the refueling mission specified in the rules, or is considered as a part of the assembling process of the main craft?

I would say that fueling your craft is part of construction. Extra to this, once you have left Kerbin you can refuel your craft once more.

[Alchemist]

The "refueling mission" is about the situations when you manage to run out of fuel somewhere around Jool (therefore, requiring to send another craft from Kerbin to Jool).

Launching partially fueled modules into LKO and then refueling them with separate flights count as orbital assembly, and amount of launches for that is not limited (as long as in the end you have a single ship flying from Kerbin to Jool).

However, if you using a module that was launched beforehand... you should probably provide at least some documentation on where does it come from.

[PCanas]

Ok, nice. If I make several refueling missions to LKO, wich I will, do I have to document all of them, or one is enough, given that all the missoins will be similar? (i.e., the same craft for refueling, everytime)

[parzr]

Ok, nice. If I make several refueling missions to LKO, wich I will, do I have to document all of them, or one is enough, given that all the missoins will be similar? (i.e., the same craft for refueling, everytime)

each refueling should minimally have your vehicle at launch and just before docking.

Showing staging isn't that important (but sometimes its cool to show off a few), unless your margins are very tight.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Here is my new attempt.

Stock Rover that can reattach for the new Biomes

2 Copulas

2 Hitchhiker units

10 kerbals

Half the weight of my first successful attempt.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116613-Parzr-Jool-5?p=1861012#post1861012