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[0.23.5] StretchySRB: A StretchyTanks Continuation v9 Final Pre-PP edition 3/21/14

NathanKell

By NathanKell
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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DasBananenbrot

DasBananenbrot

Posted
Posted
So I've been launching monstrously huge rockets for a while now (Usually 15-20m in diameter with a lot of F1 engines underneath) and wanted to try my hand at a large SLS like lifter. I've always tried not to use stretchy SRBs (or stock ones for that matter) due to the cheaty way they work. Not only is the enourmous increase in TWR (losing mass, with constant or increasing thrust) not realistic, it also causes over-G issues. So is there any work being done on thrust curves for these SRBs? I really liked the way advanced SRB and Hakari's 1:1 Shuttle booster replica did it, and I feel realistic behaviour for solid motors is something that's really missing from the (amazing) realistic experience that you've so far managed to create.

THere's the answer

Oh, i would like to inform of you that the SRB thrust curve plugin for v0.23 is available now. (this sounds quite like promoting/advertising my plugin, but i do think thrust curves for SRB is very important :blush: )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hb51rhkgdz814nl/Engine%20Thrust%20Controll%20V2.zip

It has one config brought with which will automatically give all solid boosters a thrust curve. but you might want your own curves.

So... the thrust curve is edit-able by Tweakable Parameter plugin (see my sig). I know it's a bit inconvenient to install two plugins just to achieve one purpose but well...

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HoneyFox

HoneyFox

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One thing I am wondering about stretchy tank is:

Is there anything wrong with the volume calculation with the conic tank? it has much less volume than a normal tank with similar shape even if we take the utility of space into account.

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fatcargo

fatcargo

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Posted (edited)

Me, again.. SIGH. Really.

I just built a first working catamaran-style LKO lifter SSTO that gets 98 ton payload at 150x150 orbit with overkill fuel left to deorbit back. Then i tried to resize it for more payload space and guess what ? It started weering off tarmac like crazy. I have RCS Build Aid screaming at me those red torque/translation vectors, but did i listen ? NO. I want to fly first, ask question later. Well, this is "later".

So i did a little experiment and it showed something disturbing in SPH :

-place a command part

-attach to it some fuselage

-turn x2 symmetry on

-attach long girder radially

-attach radial attachment point (or not, whatever)

-attach stretchy tank

-attach engine to it (any)

-now press R and wiggle mouse while pointer is over tank, effectively streching and shrinking it back

-check RCS Build Aid engine torque output, IT WILL GROW with each stretch/shrink. Even small error, with over 5 meganewtons of thrust will kill any craft

It is late and i felt cranky, thus the extra blurb along with bug reporting ...

Pleeease don't use full precision range available given by floats/doubles. Although nice on drawing board, it murders my crafts. I really don't look forward to using that old "structural fuselage". I guess this geometry error also affects editor when trying in symmetry mode to attach things and it refuses until either i make all parts in normal mode and then do symmetry placement or move camera around to "coax" it into placement.

I just wanted to lower my part count, i guess this road ain't easy.

More news on copy/paste front : if i attach radially something to stretchy tank, it will retain proper attachment nodes. If i attach another stretchy tank, he will have messed up nodes after copy/paste, but parent (that i clicked to copy/paste) stretchy tank's attachments will in this case also stay properly positioned.

UPDATE : tried same test in VAB, it too suffers from same geometry-torque combo bug.

UPDATE : I've built a basic symmetric test contruct with radial attachment point part and separately added two stretchy cones, each with it's own engine. Then i cycled through fuel types several times on only one of the parts, and rcs build aid engine torque output steadily increased. It seems that every time i change something with tanks, not only geometry but all other data on manipulated stretchy part is somehow irreversably corrupted. Anything short of direct intervention in craft file itself will not help the issue. Incredibly, same thing will happen with cycling through textures !?

I'd thought i will never see entropy in digital construct, but there it is. :confused:

Edited by fatcargo
more bad news
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ChronicSilence

ChronicSilence

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Posted

Not sure if this has been noted or not, but it seems there is a major glitch here. If you set one of the super stretchy tanks as the root part of a ship, it absolutely freaks out on a quicksave/quickload.

To reproduce:

- create new vessel

- set "KI-9000S Super Stretchable Service Module" as the first (root) part

- change its texture for good measure ('T' key)

- go to launchpad

- after waiting a couple seconds, go 'Esc' -> 'Revert Flight' -> 'Revert to Launch'

- watch it go haywire

Any thoughts about the cause of this?

EDIT: revert to launch is the same as quickloading a quicksave that occured as soon as you went to the launch pad

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NathanKell

NathanKell

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HoneyFox: Yes, it's an RF error.

blackheart612: pretty!

If you package it up I'll add it to OP if you like. :)

fatcargo, that's *really* weird. I'll check it out.

ChronicSilence: I'm pretty sure that using a procedural part as root is bad juju. I'm not surprised that's causing issues...

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blackheart612

blackheart612

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I uploaded textures here for those who would like to check it out and for OP.

I added more than just China texture (Which was posted earlier).

Chaka Monkey Fustek Retex Black and White.

Which is twisted in my other KSP directory. I dunno why

s1Gqk6d.png

For Making Stations as long as you want

I encountered problems adding stretchy tanks alongside some Squad and Kosmos modules so I added these as best as I can:

lODITuF.png

7Y8jRIj.png

The height adjustment in Kosmos could do some work but I was just a lazy man. :/

These are good since their is a structural fuselage now :D

Finally another Cryogenic tank color for variation and to look more like H-IIB and others

ClZvIaw.png

Edited by blackheart612
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Surefoot

Surefoot

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fatcargo, that's *really* weird. I'll check it out.

I have the same issue with radial symmetry, when changing the length. I think all of this is related to my still-existing issue of radial stretchies inducing torque.. I still have it whatever i do, of course 8x symmetry with heavy tanks will show it very clearly.

Also when changing sizes, the fuel distribution goes off (always to the side of "too much oxy") (i use stock fuel). Even when i go to the actions menu, click on "45/55" again, go back, launch the ship, when the fuel is almost used up i have plenty leftover oxydizer. I can provide you with test ships upon demand.

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DasBananenbrot

DasBananenbrot

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I uploaded textures here for those who would like to check it out and for OP.

I added more than just China texture (Which was posted earlier).

Chaka Monkey Fustek Retex Black and White.

Which is twisted in my other KSP directory. I dunno why

https://i.imgur.com/s1Gqk6d.png

For Making Stations as long as you want

I encountered problems adding stretchy tanks alongside some Squad and Kosmos modules so I added these as best as I can:

https://i.imgur.com/lODITuF.png

https://i.imgur.com/7Y8jRIj.png

The height adjustment in Kosmos could do some work but I was just a lazy man. :/

These are good since their is a structural fuselage now :D

Finally another Cryogenic tank color for variation and to look more like H-IIB and others

https://i.imgur.com/ClZvIaw.png

Those look gorgeous

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ferram4

ferram4

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Posted

Tapered parts *always* make more drag than straight parts with stuff on the ends. Even nosecones make more drag than equivalent straight parts with other things on the ends. It's just that the blunt end of a tank makes quite a bit more drag than it would if a nosecone was attached there. There's also no special treatment for nosecones in FAR, so there's no way for them to "come up" as one; they're just regular parts.

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NathanKell

NathanKell

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Extract the StretchyTanks folder in KSP/GameData

Once the part appears in VAB/SPH (make sure you start a new career game or play in sandbox to be sure), right-click on it; on the right will be the info of what keys to press. You hold the key down, then move the cursor over the tank. It will stretch.

Ferram, blackheart612, those look super-awesome!

I will add to OP; right now I'm on a trip with spotty net access...

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bs1110101

bs1110101

Posted
Posted
I uploaded textures here for those who would like to check it out and for OP.

I added more than just China texture (Which was posted earlier).

Chaka Monkey Fustek Retex Black and White.

Which is twisted in my other KSP directory. I dunno why

https://i.imgur.com/s1Gqk6d.png

For Making Stations as long as you want

I encountered problems adding stretchy tanks alongside some Squad and Kosmos modules so I added these as best as I can:

https://i.imgur.com/lODITuF.png

https://i.imgur.com/7Y8jRIj.png

The height adjustment in Kosmos could do some work but I was just a lazy man. :/

These are good since their is a structural fuselage now :D

Finally another Cryogenic tank color for variation and to look more like H-IIB and others

https://i.imgur.com/ClZvIaw.png

These are awesome, can you make some that match the tanks from the shuttle engines mod, and try to get the stripey bit to show up automatically.

Also, how did you get the rounded bits? Many, many conic tanks?

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Scripto23

Scripto23

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Posted
These are awesome, can you make some that match the tanks from the shuttle engines mod, and try to get the stripey bit to show up automatically.

Also, how did you get the rounded bits? Many, many conic tanks?

Thanks to NathanKell's wizardry you can press "b" when your cursor is over the conic tank to change its shape.

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blackheart612

blackheart612

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These are awesome, can you make some that match the tanks from the shuttle engines mod, and try to get the stripey bit to show up automatically.

Also, how did you get the rounded bits? Many, many conic tanks?

I won't yet cause I have something to say until you reply.

I can only make it the same color but can't make them exactly the same since the texture at the back of the tank is not symmetric to the other side which can't be done with stretchySRB because it just mirrors the texture for 2 sides or something like that. Second is that it has a unique model, which is asymmetric again.

Unless Nathan pulls something off again (which he always does), and does something that allows asymmetric texturing or maybe stretchytank model change (like the cones)... then I can only do the same color (which sucks I know but meh)

PS, I'm bad@plugins so I have no idea what Im saying.

Edited by blackheart612
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NathanKell

NathanKell

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drtedastro: when I get a chance I'll at least get Firespitter's texture switcher working for PF. I'm away on a trip so I can't get much done at the moment though.

Got it working for Procedural Wings so I'm learning. :)

blackheart612: if you set uScale to 1.0 instead of 2.0 for your texture, it shouldn't tile the texture around the tank anymore. I note you are doing that for orangesides2.png - is it still tiling it?

So that's texture. Regarding geometry--swamp_ig is currently working on a refactor of Stretchy that should easily be extensible to other meshes.

OP updated with both packs!

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