PorkWorks dev thread [Habitat Pack] [SpaceplanePlus]

[Tcy16]

I guess you could disable the surface atachment in the cfg of the part, but i don't know if that helps

[Dave7]

Editor Extensions mod makes it very simple. If there is a node for attachment then I use alt-r to turn off radial attach and attach my cargo to the node. If there is no node then I rotate the cargo hold so it's horizontal, then use vertical snap to make it radially attach perfectly centered onto the cargo bay. Squad really should build in the editor extensions into KSP.

[MaverickSawyer]

Hey guys can i ask for your advice?

I'm done with the cargobay, but I'm running into many problems in-game. The way the attaching and node system works in the game make it kinda impossible to place anything in the cargobay.

- Surface attaching a docking port on the back of the part the bay is attached to is possible but very finicky cos the port starts to rotate to weird directions as you move it towards the center, lots of patience and eyeballing required.

- Attaching a payload to that docking port is next to impossible! It will allways try to surface attach to the walls of the cargo bay instead of the node of the docking port. I only got done by disabling surface attaching with Editor Extensions. But that's no real sollution, I dont want to require people to have Editor Extensions to use my mod...

I checked how B9 handles those problems and the answer is: it doesnt! Same finicky bull**** editor problems. God dammit Squad! You guys seriously need to overhaul the whole editor.

So how do you guys work with the Cargo Bays in B9? What can i do to make this work in a humanely intuitive way?

Have the bay doors be separate from the endcaps of the bay. Frizzank used that trick with the one-sided MOL bay, and it works well. Assemble the bay, detach it, assemble the payload, reattach the bay, done. That way, you can also place attach nodes to make attaching a docking port easier. If you do that, though, one request: DON'T PUT A NUB IN THE CENTER OF THE ENDCAP LIKE IN THE MOL BAY!!!! That nub is 0.625m in a 2.5m bay, and it drives me nuts...

[Parkaboy]

That's a problem with most cargo bays, although there are some where the inside node is visible from the side, and you can attach a docking port if you hold it just right (and of course the comon practice is to just assemble the payload outside, before trying to attach it to the bay). If your part isn't like that, and attaching something to the node is pretty much impossible, then a solution is to have a version of the docking port that only attaches to nodes, and not to surfaces. I've seen a couple of cargo bay mods use that.

You might even get cookie points if you model a docking port that can dock with the standard one, but looks cooler inside the bay, maybe with lights and stuff.

[Prime flux]

Looking good as all your work, Porkjet.

Some integrated lights for the cargobay would be very nice.

[NoMrBond]

Instead of the end-caps being separate, why not have the end caps, side beams and bay doors as one part, have the bottom as a separate part which clips onto the bay structure

That way you can build inside the bay (with the doors open), then clip the tiled bottom on (or even another set of doors if that tickled your fancy) after your payload is inside

[Prime flux]

One solution could be to make a L-shaped attachment piece which is surfaced attached to the bottom of the cargo-bay, and have a node to attaching the payload.

workflow would be something like this. attach the attachment piece to side of the plane, build the payload and move the attachment piece with attached payload into the cargo-bay.

If you are more advance the attachment piece could have a animated extending to allow easier deployment of the payload.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Prime flux

[DevL]

I'm using EditorExtensions to get around the current SPH/VAB limitations.

[Captain Sierra]

That's a problem with most cargo bays, although there are some where the inside node is visible from the side, and you can attach a docking port if you hold it just right (and of course the comon practice is to just assemble the payload outside, before trying to attach it to the bay).

This is the answer. You want a node that is slightly smaller than your main node and slightly recessed into the bay. When attaching the bay to the plane, it snaps to the main, but then reveals the recessed one when adding payload. That's the best way the stock game has to facilitate this. Anything else is sort of a cludge method (and of course, this is what you did with the giant girder frame thing, nice).

EDIT:

Here is an example I whipped up using modified code from the fuselage part. This creates smaller sized nodes slightly farther in on which other parts can attach to.

node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0
node_stack_top1 = 0.0, 1.87, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom1 = 0.0, 1.87, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, -0.8, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1

The ones with numbers are the smaller inner nodes. Hope this helps!

Edited February 19, 2014 by Captain Sierra

[Porkjet]

I've just done exactly that and it works ok. I'm struggling with some more things tho... I'm spending more time debugging this stupid cargo bay than modeling and texturing it. very annoying.

[Naf5000]

You could add a special cargo bay docking port with no surface attach, so that it doesn't snap on to the bay while you try to attach it. You could also make it have no-fuel-crossfeed, to emphasize that it's not for general use.

[boberts314]

Two methods I've used for getting things into the cargo bays without using editor extensions:

1. Move the camera inside the cargo bay. The attachment node will now be accessible without radial attachment being so much of an issue.

2. Build the payload to use radial attachment. Generally this means a small tower of structural elements with a docking port on the side. The actual payload gets attached outside of the bay and then the whole subassembly is attached radially to the bottom of the bay.

The current VAB/SPH isn't really designed with bays in mind, but it's possible to work with it in most cases.

[Porkjet]

Alright finally everything works.

Ladies and Gentlemen, today i give you not one but TWO cargobays!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkaelclfjzzoicn/SpaceplanePlus.zip

I'm using the Firespitter plugin to make the doors open in the SPH. You can close and open them with action groups too. It's a pretty cool plugin.

Thx for the tips. I'm kinda surprised everyone just came up with a way to work with the editor limitations. I do use Editor Extensions so it's no problem for me, I just dont want the stuff to rely on other mods. But it seems you guys know how to cram your stuff in there even without EE.

I do like the idea of a special cargo docking port with lights, I'll keep that in mind for later.

I think it's time for me to go for wings soon-ish.

Cheers guys

[ZodiusInfuser]

Alright finally everything works.

Ladies and Gentlemen, today i give you not one but TWO cargobays!

http://i.imgur.com/uZtEwoX.jpg

Woot!!

I think it's time for me to go for wings soon-ish.

Bomb-bay first

[Captain Sierra]

So I've already DLed and played some. I only have one critique. The smaller nodes are shifted up only with no inward movement. Now this is fine and all, but they're so high it's possible to snap to them. Of course, this is more than tolerable since they are literally PERFECT in every other aspect and test I could run them through.

I also discovered a few ideas for multicouplers. Of course, the fuel tank should be interpreted as if it was the Mk 2-1 adapter for smoother adapting

I've never seen a tricoupler like that before so I think it would be awesome and would only further cement your status as one of the many immortalized modders we have.

[DevL]

Nice cargo bays! But they show up under the propulsion tab in the editor. Personally, I think the Utility tab is a better fit.

[Captain Sierra]

Nice cargo bays! But they show up under the propulsion tab in the editor. Personally, I think the Utility tab is a better fit.

I like the fact that they show up in the same place, even if it's misplaced.

[Sage Sagan]

I just wanted to say how awesome these parts are! They allow some graceful and very practical SSTO's. I used a right angle docking adapter on my space station with a standard docking port married to the "spud" pod for docking window action. Bit of an SOB to dock but it works well.

Google plus is being difficult https://plus.google.com/photos/115887036249449370005/albums/5981556954283637409/5982503250670671858?pid=5982503250670671858&oid=115887036249449370005

Gallery of glamour shots.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Sage Sagan

[Starwaster]

I just wanted to say how awesome these parts are! They allow some graceful and very practical SSTO's. I used a right angle docking adapter on my space station with a standard docking port married to the "spud" pod for docking window action. Bit of an SOB to dock but it works well.

Google plus is being difficult https://plus.google.com/photos/115887036249449370005/albums/5981556954283637409/5982503250670671858?pid=5982503250670671858&oid=115887036249449370005

Gallery of glamour shots.

Wow that does not look at all safe to fly.

I can't wait to try making one just like it!

[Proot]

I just wanted to say how awesome these parts are! They allow some graceful and very practical SSTO's. I used a right angle docking adapter on my space station with a standard docking port married to the "spud" pod for docking window action. Bit of an SOB to dock but it works well.

Google plus is being difficult https://plus.google.com/photos/115887036249449370005/albums/5981556954283637409/5982503250670671858?pid=5982503250670671858&oid=115887036249449370005

Gallery of glamour shots.

Need to replace B9 wings. What are those?

[MaverickSawyer]

Yes, that's a stock docking port tucked inside the small bay. works like a charm.

Trick for installing stuff into the cargo bays: Build the payload, flip it around, set it aside. Flip the cargo bay around, clip the payload to the "back" of the bay, then flip the bay back to the normal orientation. Install on the spaceplane, then add the rest of the fuselage.

[Mach_XXII]

Need to replace B9 wings. What are those?

The wings are from this pack: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-1-taverios-pizza-and-aerospace/

[Porkjet]

Nice to see the parts in action

Sage sagan, what pack are those black spikey intakes from? taverius? I want to add very similar intakes to this pack, I had done them a while ago but need to overhaul them.

I've also played around abit today and brought Fredrim Kerman from my space station back to kerbin in a cargo bay! He survived without a scratch and had a good time.

Fredrim Kerman, the stowaway.

Fredrim Kerman feels kinda special

Fredrim Kerman back home alive and well

[Proot]

The wings are from this pack: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-1-taverios-pizza-and-aerospace/

Thanks! Looks good, gonna try.

[Sage Sagan]

The Wings and Shock-cone intakes are from Taverio's Aerospace http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-1-taverios-pizza-and-aerospace/

I just found the changeover to closed cycle operation was happening too low for my liking with stock intakes, with 4 shock intakes I get to around 28000m before the engines switch. I came in 300km short of KSC on my last re-entry and there was plenty of fuel left for the long, slow, flight home. The plane is actually very safe to fly Starwaster,although I haven't carried a payload yet.