Reaching for the Stars [PH] - Jane's VI 3 Feb 15

[Fox62]

When I play (or rather played, due to my laptop dying) RSS, I don't even bother with the standard shrouds and just use the procedural interstage adapter from PF for an interstage decoupler.

[Turbojet]

All of them

[NathanKell]

Wedgenet: Long delayed response. I do get shrouds, and they appear and disappear correctly.

Anyhow. Try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/egnqwhq1yjjax9g/RftS_Pack_v3_pre6.zip

This is also a notice to anyone who'd like to playtest RftS v3. Please nuke your existing RftS and install this. Note that stuff may break, and you need KM_Gimbal now, not EE gimbal (it's broken in .23.5). Also note the dependencies in the readme (wait, it has a readme now!? Yes!)

Turbojet: ok. I will clean up my craft and post them. However, the jet that was in Chapter 3 is gone; it won't even load anymore. You get the one I teased in pics as the new JRC Mk III.

[ThorBeorn]

Nice to see your progress on RftS v3. I tried it, just in the VAB though. The readme lists SXT as a dependency, but from what I can tell all the engines run on stock liquid fuel+oxidizer. Am I missing something or can I have the full RO experience without SXT? Gotta keep part count down now.

[NathanKell]

SXT is required for the three resized intakes. As I hope the readme made clear, RftS uses parts from those packs to do things; it's not setting out to support every thing in those packs.

I do plan to expand RftSEngines though to support some SXT engines, also HGR and blackheart's work. Britain needs some LUV.

[ThorBeorn]

Oh, that's listed under "changelog". Guess reading all of the readme is a good idea. Ehrm...

Nice to hear that you're still working on adding more rockets. But I must say, as a RO/RPL player I feel we have A LOT of engines to choose from now.

EDIT, found a bug: The LR88-4 probably got the rescalefactor applied twice bug. It's about 20 meters in diameter in the VAB.

Edited May 30, 2014 by ThorBeorn

[NathanKell]

ThorBeorn: yeah, I have reached the point where I can no longer load all parts at all times. This is one reason SXT is awesome, though, since it reuses existing textures and thus has a minimal footprint.

I'll check the LR88-4. Thanks!

[romie]

delete plze wrong place

Edited June 3, 2014 by romie
wrong place

[NathanKell]

Very nice!

[romie]

hey nathan i need your help with making an launcher that can leave earths SOI it seem i cant make it ha really hard time getting things in orbit with out using unlimited fuel

am using Rfts V3

[ThorBeorn]

Tested RftS V.3 a bit further. The LR-43 seems to be gimbaling "upside-down". Rotating the engine 180 degrees didn't help. Pitch up inputs made the enginge pitch down and vice versa.

[NathanKell]

romie: I will cook something up for you when I get home. For now: Make your probe as light as possible, and then keep building stages under it as necessary...

ThorBeorn: open RftSEngines. Find

@PART[FASAGeminiLR87Twin125m]

And then scroll down until you hit

@name = KM_Gimbal

and under it add:

%invertPitch = true

%invertYaw = true

That should fix it.

(Well, assuming Yaw's inverted too. If not, don't add that line...)

[romie]

romie: I will cook something up for you when I get home. For now: Make your probe as light as possible, and then keep building stages under it as necessary...

ok i try that um am trying to get that mars probe from RPL try to get a pic the rocket that might help.

[ThorBeorn]

ThorBeorn: open RftSEngines. Find

@PART[FASAGeminiLR87Twin125m]

And then scroll down until you hit

@name = KM_Gimbal

and under it add:

%invertPitch = true

%invertYaw = true

That should fix it.

(Well, assuming Yaw's inverted too. If not, don't add that line...)

That did fix it. I'll post here again if I suspect something is not working as intended. Is the LR22-R (the one with infinate restarts) supposed to have 0 degrees gimbal btw?

[romie]

ok i do not know how i did it lol but i was going for the moon totally missed it and it all most made it to mars orbit here pics

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited June 16, 2014 by romie
fixed link

[NathanKell]

ThorBeorn: Cool! And yes, that's intended: I didn't want to kill the module entirely, and I hope at some point to add increasing gimbal based on TL, but I did want the early TL0/1etc version to be ungimballable. Although now after (this prompted me to do) a bit more research, even Vanguard's AJ10-37 was gimbaled, so I probably should add back a degree or so.

romie: cool!

In other news: this isn't actually dead yet (still!). While away on my trip I did some writing; I'm finally (implicitly) laying out more background, and am preparing a new chapter: Jane's All The World's Hunters. Included is the H3F Bobcat (here shown in prewar US Navy hiviz).

[IronGremlin]

NathanKell, would it be possible to get an inventory of parts used by the RftS Engines?

I have an under-powered computer, and run into severe RAM utilization / performance issues while attempting to play my RPL/RO install - I've attempted manually curating all the various part mods, but I'm really running into trouble trying to figure out which parts are which, especially in the FASA pack.

Having an inventory of 'this engine requires this part from this mod' would make this much easier.

[curiousepic]

Having an inventory of 'this engine requires this part from this mod' would make this much easier.

I just came here to ask for something similar, or at least lament the fact that using either of the two RO engine packs entails dealing with a lot of extraneous, untouched-by-RO parts

..

[NathanKell]

Rocket engines:

Check out my calcs spreadsheet; it's what I build RftS from. Go to the Engines sheet and see all the engines listed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz2ntsqhwe192xv/Calcs.xls

Beige is Squad

Pale pink is AIES

Turqouise is FASA

Beige-orange is Space Shuttle Engines (note: the only ones actually used are the OMS and Dobule OMS, you can delete the rest)

Gray is RLA Stockalikes

Light green is KW

Dark green are my rescales of others' engines

Blue is Nova Punch

Orange is B9

White is "misc" (like Hakari's F-1)

For jet engines, 90% of them are B9, with a few based on TVPP's ramjet or NoMrBond's MACE (soon I'll be using NoMrBond's new F100 model). Props are 90% Firespitter, 10% KAX.

[Makeone]

Few observations of RtfS engines.

1) Why, oh why LR-46/-46x2 are scales so BIG, they are bigger than J7R and LR-59R (hopefully i got them right). While those engines mentioned first have still they appealing thrust. I mean, they were bit too small as original size (1.25m)

2) Where did LR-21 go? It was pretty useful low engine.

3) I seem to have a white engine that comes in TL0 i think, missing texture?

4) 1700KN engine at TL0?? Really?

5) Quad engines (and some others) are not very useful with KM_gimball, actually, they are completely horrified. It is better to use 5x some similar 1/5th powered engine and disable gimbal from center one (Saturn V style).

Also, for a while, i managed to my rockets with KM_gimbal to orbit withing reason, but then, they just started to brake up, i pretty much lost my nerves and quickly removed the KM plugin in order to fly them rockets again. TBH, i don't know what happened with them, i wonder if my second stage is too short, for some reason, i liked them 'stubby' rockets instead of flying skyscrpers á la Saturn V... Does the length of the rocket have something to do with stability?

And if something RSS et all would need, is more engines WITHOUT thrustplates, as they tend to be quite big and make placing multiple engines difficult, but otherwise things are...as good as they can be, i suppose.

[Mirean]

Hey,

I was wondering - there are a lot of engines that are counterparts to real ones, but I cannot find any engine that is at least close to the almighty RS-68. The closest one is RD-69 (or whatever it's called) - it's hydrolox too, it has similiar ISP, but the thrust is way off. RL version has 3.4MN and RD-69 has around 2MN, depending on tech level. Would it be possible to add such engine into next update? I tried to create Delta IV replica but failed because of this

Thanks

EDIT: Nevermind, Nathan already responded to me in another thread ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58135-TechTree-0-23-5-MS19e-Realistic-Progression-LITE-%282014-05-11%29?p=1226810&viewfull=1#post1226810 )

Edited June 22, 2014 by Mirean

[ThorBeorn]

I'm a few hours in my latest career game with RO+RPL+AJE+RftS and all the other relevant mods. I notice there are a ton of intakes that does not have support for AJE. Eight of them come from RftS, some are rescales from TVPP, some are from Firespitter, two are from AJE istelf etc. Will we see more compability (less part clutter) with AJE in the next RftS pack?

Really what we need I guess is that the mod makers from AJE, FS, B9, SXT, TVPP and you Nathan collaborated fulltime with this. But I realise that's just unrealistic. In the meantime, what do you suggest we do? You build a lot of aircraft, do you just delete the inlets that lack AJE support or do you make your own personal cfgs for these?

Edit: Oh crap just ignore what I wrote. I just looked at your inlet cfgs in RftS and I see you have actually made new parts from existing models, not just rescales. I guess it's just to add support for AJE.

I'm gonna do that this week, I can post a cfg here if you like?

Edit2: As you might have seen in the AJE thread I made cfgs for those intakes who lacked AJE support, let me know if you want them btw. While making these however I discovered TVPP has been updated and your references to the cone intakes are broken. The new folder structure makes it: "model = TVPP/Parts-New/TVPP/Cone Intake/model"

Edited June 26, 2014 by ThorBeorn

[NathanKell]

Whoops, missed these!

Makeone:

1. Why oh why is the RL-10 so BIG? It's so much bigger than the XLR11 but produces the same thrust! Here's why.

2. The LR-21 is the Mini Orbital Bertha from FASA.

3. No idea. Pics?

4. Yes, really. Consider this, then realize (a) it's 1948 and ( it's 2.3x as heavy as Saturn V. Of course, it only would have put 25t in orbit. We could have made ICBMs in 1945. They wouldn't have been accurate, and it would have been Manhattan-Project hard, but we totally could have done it.

5. This is true. Ask dtobi to allow individual rotation of thrust transforms.

ThorBeorn: responded elsewhere, but just for completeness: my apologies on being so slow in getting them up on git! I ended up going a slightly different route than you...

[jrandom]

A question about the VULCAN engine from the latest git code -- is that really an actual engine, behavior-wise? As in, based on real world technology? Because I just flew with it and it's massively powerful. If it's not realistic at the moment, I'll just not use it until it's ready, but if it's really what modern engine technology is capable of, it's freakin' awesome.

[NathanKell]

Ramjets have flown to Mach 5 before. They're also not super heavy. The Vulcan is basically a developed J58 optimized for near-hypersonic speed rather than the Mach 3 range. Instead of a regular turbojet with bleed air, where even at max bleed it still has a decent compressor pressure ratio, a true turboramjet will entirely bypass the compressor at high mach. A turboramjet is, basically, everything from a turbojet that uses a ramjet combustor rather than a traditional afterburner (the Miles M.52 engine) through the J58 (a turbojet with bleed-air bypass such that at high mach intake air is routed around the compressor) to what the VULCAN is: essentially a non-afterburning turbojet *inside* a ramjet. Another way of conceptualizing the VULCAN is as a J58 where the ratio of bled air to compressed air approaches 100% at high mach.

This is, in fact, an engine broadly achievable with 1960s technology; the problem is basically to ensure that the aircraft (and the ramjet insides and the diverter placed in front of the compressor intake) will survive the heat at that temperature. One need not worry about the delicate fan blades at that temperature because the air is fully diverted away from the compressor at high mach.

Note that since only the nozzle is graphically modeled, the engine itself (which probably ought to be a good 2m in diameter) is not. So make sure you have a wide enough fuselage.