[1.12.X] RealChute Parachute Systems v1.4.8.3 | 24/01/21

[stupid_chris]

Testing out the new version.

During my payload separation test mentioned a couple of pages previously, when the payload is separated at ~10Km above kerbin atmosphere, the chutes present on the payload are automatically cut leaving the payload chute-less to plummet into a sad heap of debris across the landscape.

Any updates/news on this issue S_C?

I haven't worked on this at all. I've been working on dual chute support for this update. The size of the update, code speaking, was too much for me to attempt to go and fix this as it went.

I prefer the semi-deployment to be done by pressure rather than altitude. Any way I can do it with RC?

Nope, this is intended for usage outside of Kerbin. I might get around to adding this feature when I add the editor window, but until then, it stays this way.

And trying to open chutes above minimum altitude results in it locking up at an unrepairable state.

This is a bug. I had fixed it in the previous version, but the code rework broke it again I presume. Will fix.

EDIT: Just tested this. I haven't seen this. It acts as planned: above the minimal altitude, the parachute won't deploy, and it will only deploy once you are below the minimum altitude and ask for it too deploy. Could you expand on how you got this to happen and with which parachute?

While this might be intended to up the game's difficulty, I prefer being able to pre-deploy my chutes in space so that I don't have to keep watch over it. How to do this?

This is intentional to prevent accidents. One of the most annoying things I've encountered with the game is accidentally pressing the spacebar in space and staging some parachutes without wanting to. Parachutes should not deploy in space.

Edited November 24, 2013 by stupid_chris

[erbmur]

I haven't worked on this at all. I've been working on dual chute support for this update. The size of the update, code speaking, was too much for me to attempt to go and fix this as it went.

No Worries!

Take your time. Love it as it is with just a work around using a stock chute.

Have to say I love what you've done with this mod though.

Keep up the good work.

[stupid_chris]

No Worries!

Take your time. Love it as it is with just a work around using a stock chute.

Have to say I love what you've done with this mod though.

Keep up the good work.

I'm on this issue right now, I think I know what's going on. A separated staged chute automatically cuts. From what it seems, it can't identify it's position if it isn't on the focused craft, and altitude check goes all wonky. Working on a fix.

EDIT: aaannd fixed c:

Edited November 24, 2013 by stupid_chris

[stupid_chris]

Alright, updated to v0.2.1!

Changelog:

November 24th 2013
v0.2.1
*Hotfix*
-Fixed a bug where single parachutes don't show the right icon colours
-Fixed the weird glitchiness of the parachute's orientation in some occasions
-Fixed parachutes not working if not on the current active vessel

Those who have the v0.2, mall that is needed is to replace the plugin

Edited November 24, 2013 by stupid_chris

[DasBananenbrot]

Concerning FAR anything new from the official side? I am still using it with edited files to stowedDrag=0 but and so FAR (hehe) everything is working.

[stupid_chris]

Concerning FAR anything new from the official side? I am still using it with edited files to stowedDrag=0 but and so FAR (hehe) everything is working.

That's all there is to it. I believe far does this to every stock part, but since it can't identify this part you have to do it manually.

[DasBananenbrot]

That's all there is to it. I believe far does this to every stock part, but since it can't identify this part you have to do it manually.

Have some problems with FAR and one of the NovaPunch parachutes and at first I thought it was the problem of FAR still not modelling the right drag so he gave me quick fix for the FAR code

Obviously, what's happening is that the real chute is still applying drag through the stock model. FAR zeroes out everything that needs to be zeroed out for stock parachutes, but not for real chute. Try adding this to the end of the FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg file in the FerramAerospaceResearch folder:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[RealChuteModule]]
{
	@MODULE[RealChuteModule]
	{
		@stowedDrag = 0
	}
}

But still got problems with the NP parachute make my rocket flip after start even with the slightest turn (yes it is aerodynamically stable, as I used a FAR example rocket for testing) So further problem searching is too be done. Don't bother though as right now it seems it is not RealChute causing the problems..

Edited November 25, 2013 by DasBananenbrot

[stupid_chris]

Hmm. I think I know what goes on.

When the FAR cfg looks for the parts with RealChuteModule, the RealChute MM file hasn't applied it's changes yet, so the parachutes don't have the module. That leads the FAR file to not do anything and the MM file just applies the normal module.

Try doing this instead:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[RealChuteModule]] : final
{
	@MODULE[RealChuteModule]
	{
		@stowedDrag = 0
	}
}

If I'm not wrong, this should apply the changes at the end.

[Frederf]

I was deploying Kerbin probes from an airplane via parachute like those low altitude military drops and noticed the auto-cut bug. Would have shared it if I thought it was a bug/had such a quick resolution.

Thanks for the MM snippet to FAR-ize all parachute modules.

[AlmightyR]

Nope, this is intended for usage outside of Kerbin. I might get around to adding this feature when I add the editor window, but until then, it stays this way.

There are good reasons why I prefer pressure-based deployment. I will explain below and, well, make of it what you will.

Atmosphere for other planets differ in size (altitude) and density (exponential drag force) from Kerbin. The altitude-based deployment causes inconsistency on the atmospheric effects between planets; A good deployment altitude at one planet might be a deadly one at another, but a good deployment pressure is always good (although it might still be deadly), because the difference between atmospheres of different planets is exponential.

In other words, let's say a Deadly Reentry mod user is reentering a planet with different, lets say higher atmospheric density:

A pressure based deployment will go "Oh, better deploy now before the pressure is too high! Or this craft will shatter with the punching G's later!".

On the other hand, altitude-based will go "Nah. Not my altitude yet. When I do deploy, get ready for an engine-landing, if you are lucky enough to have the fuel and TWR, because I'll rip myself right off this craft!".

This is a bug. I had fixed it in the previous version, but the code rework broke it again I presume. Will fix.

EDIT: Just tested this. I haven't seen this. It acts as planned: above the minimal altitude, the parachute won't deploy, and it will only deploy once you are below the minimum altitude and ask for it too deploy. Could you expand on how you got this to happen and with which parachute?

I fear there is no much further to expand to. If I activate a chute's stage above the minimum altitude, it's icon goes red and I can't repair, repack, deploy or cut it. It basically waves me a forever-goodbye and wishes me luck with the engine-landing.

I am using a heavily-modded install, so I'll have to do some testing, but I don't have any other mods even remotely related to parachutes, and I don't think any of the mods I use changes any staging mechanics (the closest is MechJeb's built-in auto-staging utility), so if I had to bet, I'd bet nothing is interfering.

This is intentional to prevent accidents. One of the most annoying things I've encountered with the game is accidentally pressing the spacebar in space and staging some parachutes without wanting to. Parachutes should not deploy in space.

Well, chris. Take no offence in this but, with reference to what I say above, one of the most annoying things I've encountered with the mod is accidentally pressing the spacebar in space and staging some parachutes without wanting to, since they then become useless dead-weight.

If there is anything worse than parachutes that should not deploy in space are parachutes that should deploy (somewhere/anywhere) and don't. And that then require your already over-tasked eyeballs stop looking at the important stuff to keep watch over the altimeter so that you don't mess up the staging; Because if you do mess up, either your parachutes won't deploy anywhere, ever; Or your kerbals are gonna have a very quick death.

"Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No! It's a "didn't-parachute-fast-enough" kerb-*BOOM*"

Edited November 25, 2013 by AlmightyR

[stupid_chris]

There are good reasons why I prefer pressure-based deployment. I will explain below and, well, make of it what you will.

Atmosphere for other planets differ in size (altitude) and density (exponential drag force) from Kerbin. The altitude-based deployment causes inconsistency on the atmospheric effects between planets; A good deployment altitude at one planet might be a deadly one at another, but a good deployment pressure is always good (although it might still be deadly), because the difference between atmospheres of different planets is exponential.

I'm seeing it the opposite. If you take Kerbin, 0.01atm, which is stock deployment, is at about 38km high if I'm not mistaken. Coincidence or not, RealChute's default is 40km. So far so good.

Then, you go to Eve. 0.01atm is ridiculously high, above 70km iirc. Nothing where you would need to have them deployed. 40km high is a good deployment height, but even then, you have a loooong way down from there.

Then you go to Duna, and this is where it gets interesting. 0.01atm is at 12km. Most terrain height is at about 2-4km high on Duna. That leaves you 8km to slow down. And with such a ridiculous atmosphere, you are going well over 300m/s at this height. Depending on your angle, that leaves the parachutes a good 20s at max to slow you down before deployment. Not enough. So by allowing earlier deployment, say at about 30km, you leave much more time for the chutes to slow you down a much as they can.

In other words, let's say a Deadly Reentry mod user is reentering a planet with different, lets say higher atmospheric density:

A pressure based deployment will go "Oh, better deploy now before the pressure is too high! Or this craft will shatter with the punching G's later!".

On the other hand, altitude-based will go "Nah. Not my altitude yet. When I do deploy, get ready for an engine-landing, if you are lucky enough to have the fuel and TWR, because I'll rip myself right off this craft!".

I think you've missed the point of this mod then. I have never seen my G meter go above 5Gs on parachute deployment. So I don't think you'll experience those "punching Gs". And no, the parachute won't rip right off. Because this mod is there to prevent this. Welcome to RealChute.

Honestly, this is the third time I've been asked this and no, my answer is categoric, deployment by pressure is not for now. If it ever comes, it is not before the editor window to allow in game control of the stats. Until then, take out your calculator, do some pressure by altitude calculations and transform those pressures into altitudes on each planet and change the values yourself.

I fear there is no much further to expand to. If I activate a chute's stage above the minimum altitude, it's icon goes red and I can't repair, repack, deploy or cut it. It basically waves me a forever-goodbye and wishes me luck with the engine-landing.

I am using a heavily-modded install, so I'll have to do some testing, but I don't have any other mods even remotely related to parachutes, and I don't think any of the mods I use changes any staging mechanics (the closest is MechJeb's built-in auto-staging utility), so if I had to bet, I'd bet nothing is interfering.

Well, chris. Take no offence in this but, with reference to what I say above, one of the most annoying things I've encountered with the mod is accidentally pressing the spacebar in space and staging some parachutes without wanting to, since they then become useless dead-weight.

If there is anything worse than parachutes that should not deploy in space are parachutes that should deploy (somewhere/anywhere) and don't. And that then require your already over-tasked eyeballs stop looking at the important stuff to keep watch over the altimeter so that you don't mess up the staging; Because if you do mess up, either your parachutes won't deploy anywhere, ever; Or your kerbals are gonna have a very quick death.

"Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No! It's a "didn't-parachute-fast-enough" kerb-*BOOM*"

Not sure which version you are using then, because as I said, this is not happening over here. I've tried many different combinations, parachutes have not deployed in space, neither above minimum deployment altitude. Ever. The one version I can remember that did this was 0.1.1a perhaps. So either you are very outdated, either you are doing something wrong/another mod is interfering.

[erbmur]

I'm on this issue right now, I think I know what's going on. A separated staged chute automatically cuts. From what it seems, it can't identify it's position if it isn't on the focused craft, and altitude check goes all wonky. Working on a fix.

EDIT: aaannd fixed c:

Can I just say...

I love you.

[wasmic]

I'm on this issue right now, I think I know what's going on. A separated staged chute automatically cuts. From what it seems, it can't identify it's position if it isn't on the focused craft, and altitude check goes all wonky. Working on a fix.

EDIT: aaannd fixed c:

Time to install Kerbin City and do eergency supply drops. Their infrastructure was destroyed by a "misguided" rocket launch.

[erbmur]

Time to install Kerbin City and do eergency supply drops. Their infrastructure was destroyed by a "misguided" rocket launch.

I'd say its time for Santa to drop Christmas presents.

[erbmur]

Perhaps once you are happy with the mod it could be expanded to encorperate exsurgent engineering? That way it would be possible to configure parachutes within the VAB/SPH? For settings such as include/exclude second chute, set altitude cut parameters, deployment altitudes etc.

Just a thought.

[zyngawow]

This helped me a lot! A lot of my ships broke because of the huge G forces vanilla parachutes have... Thank you!

[stupid_chris]

Perhaps once you are happy with the mod it could be expanded to encorperate exsurgent engineering? That way it would be possible to configure parachutes within the VAB/SPH? For settings such as include/exclude second chute, set altitude cut parameters, deployment altitudes etc.

Just a thought.

This is planned However I'll be using a custom code for that, it'll calculate the needed parachute drag itself and many other things. Infos to come Soonâ„¢

[AlmightyR]

@stupid_chris

Before anything else, I want to say that I accept you decision. You are the mod's author and you steer it to whichever direction you see proper. But I think this is a valid discussion that enlightens perspective towards both points of view, so I will keep discussing it for as long as you are willing to share your perspective and a consensus might be reached.

I'm seeing it the opposite. If you take Kerbin, 0.01atm, which is stock deployment, is at about 38km high if I'm not mistaken. Coincidence or not, RealChute's default is 40km. So far so good.

Kerbin's reentry burn-out zone is between 32.5km and 22.5km, unless you are reentering at an odd speed and/or angle.

Considering the use of Deadly Reentry, the atmosphere at 38km (or above) is too thin to slow you down enough to avoid reentry burn-out, and so deploying your chutes above 20km~ can be, and usually is, suicidal, as your chutes just burn to reentry heat.

So people who like playing with a bend towards realism, like me, usually don't leave the chutes at the stock minimum-pressure values, instead lowering them to just under the burn-out zone, so that the atmosphere is tick enough to have slowed the craft down to under atmospheric burn-out speeds, and yet is thin enough for chutes not to rip off on deployment.

Trivia: In my case, I use 0.0302 for minimum deployment pressure, which is about 17.5km at Kerbin.

Then, you go to Eve. 0.01atm is ridiculously high, above 70km iirc. Nothing where you would need to have them deployed. 40km high is a good deployment height, but even then, you have a loooong way down from there.

Nope. Although Eve has a very high and very thick atmosphere, you have to remember that the altitude-to-pressure relation is exponential. That means that despite the very thick atmosphere, that thickness if mostly concentrated at lower altitudes, so 0.01atm at Eve is at 43502m~ high. Very close to the mod's default 40km.

The difference between the deployment lies in the reliability and predictability.

With altitude-based, I know at what altitude my chutes will deploy, but since at that altitude the atmospheric pressure is different between planets, I cannot be sure that by the time that altitude comes, the atmosphere will be too thick or too thin for the chutes to be safe and efficient. Not to mention that predicting your parachute-based landing-site becomes near impossible, because the inconsistent drag-force at parachute deployment altitude makes you have to calculate the arc of descent for every reentry.

With pressure-based, I don't know exactly at what altitude my chutes will deploy, but I'm sure they will deploy at the same point in atmospheric thickness, or in other words same point in scale of atmospheric effects on my crafts.

This means that the amount of drag on the craft and the altitude of parachute deployment become interlinked, and that the force of the deployment's "punch" is the same regardless of what planet is being reentered. Because the amount of drag acting on the craft at deployment-time is consistent between planets, the arc of descent becomes simply an exponent of the planet's atmospheric thickness and the craft's reentry angle.

Then you go to Duna, and this is where it gets interesting. 0.01atm is at 12km. Most terrain height is at about 2-4km high on Duna. That leaves you 8km to slow down. And with such a ridiculous atmosphere, you are going well over 300m/s at this height. Depending on your angle, that leaves the parachutes a good 20s at max to slow you down before deployment. Not enough. So by allowing earlier deployment, say at about 30km, you leave much more time for the chutes to slow you down a much as they can.

Duna's atmosphere is at 0.01atm at 8987.1968m~, not 12km (0.0036atm~). And Duna's atmosphere, although still useful for aerobreaking (if you reenter at a shallow angle), is too thin to rely on parachutes for landing in a realistic and/or efficient fashion.

And again, since the pressure is exponential to the lower altitude, doubling the altitude of deployment is not much use, because even though the parachute is deployed for longer periods, the atmosphere is too thin for it to make a difference unless you are moving horizontally, in which case the increases in altitude of deployment loses it's meaning in the first place.

For the sake of representing your argument well, even if you open your chutes at double the normal deployment altitude, 18km~, instead of absurd 30km, the atmospheric pressure would be of just 0.0005atm~. To put that to perspective, I did a little test here, and an Mk1 Pod moving horizontally at 9km~ high at Duna's atmosphere receives a drag force of 12kN~, while the exact same pod, at 18km~, with the same angle and speed, receives just 0.006kN~. That's a force 2400 times smaller.

The point is: Since you won't reach the terminal velocity until well below deployment altitude, regardless of method, and since an angle too steep will kill you regardless, then you might as well not rely on an useless, meaningless overly-high-altitude deployment, and save yourself some time and trouble.

I think you've missed the point of this mod then.

I did get the point, and although now I use them with everything except deployment pressure at the vanilla values, I have modified my stock parachutes' deployment speed in the past, when I started using Deadly Reentry, so I'm already familiar with most of this mod's main features. It seems you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't mean that as a literal example of the damage, but as an example of why the behavior is, to my opinion, wrong.

I have never seen my G meter go above 5Gs on parachute deployment. So I don't think you'll experience those "punching Gs". And no, the parachute won't rip right off. Because this mod is there to prevent this. Welcome to RealChute.

Using an unmodified 0.625m main chute...

Pre-deployment:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7875/8edw.png

Post-deployment:

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/36/x0ng.png

You are welcome.

Not sure which version you are using then, because as I said, this is not happening over here. I've tried many different combinations, parachutes have not deployed in space, neither above minimum deployment altitude. Ever. The one version I can remember that did this was 0.1.1a perhaps. So either you are very outdated, either you are doing something wrong/another mod is interfering.

I am using version v0.2. Tonight I'll try the mod on a clean copy of my KSP to see it it's an interfering mod that's causing it. Hide wherever it wants, that bug will not escape being found!

Edited November 25, 2013 by AlmightyR

[Ralathon]

Pre-deployment:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7875/8edw.png

Post-deployment:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/752/ugkd.png

You are welcome.

I'm here to report the exact same issue. For some reason the stock small stack based chute isn't affected by this mod. It still opens with a necksnapping 15+G. The other stock chutes work just fine though.

[stupid_chris]

If this is the stock parachutes, the MM file is broken. It was still using the stock module. Download the new one, it's fixed.

[AlmightyR]

I'm here to report the exact same issue. For some reason the stock small stack based chute isn't affected by this mod. It still opens with a necksnapping 15+G. The other stock chutes work just fine though.

If this is the stock parachutes, the MM file is broken. It was still using the stock module. Download the new one, it's fixed.

Actually, the wrong link was posted for second image there. Fixed.

It's meant to show that a 5+ G's increase can easily be achieved on chute deployment. To simulate high-G reentry with a reasonable craft, all I needed was a Mun gravity assist to slingshot the craft back to Kerbin.

An interplanetary return, or a Kerbol gravity assist, can easily make your reentry at 6km/s+, double the speed of the screenshots, if no faster. Since the G's experienced are exponential to speed, that should throw the G-o'meter gauge on the red zone. Come in fast enough, and no method or altitude of deployment will save you from utter disintegration.

[Chirality]

Is there actually a combo drogue/main parachute part in the mod yet?

[DasBananenbrot]

Hmm. I think I know what goes on.

When the FAR cfg looks for the parts with RealChuteModule, the RealChute MM file hasn't applied it's changes yet, so the parachutes don't have the module. That leads the FAR file to not do anything and the MM file just applies the normal module.

Try doing this instead:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[RealChuteModule]] : final
{
	@MODULE[RealChuteModule]
	{
		@stowedDrag = 0
	}
}

If I'm not wrong, this should apply the changes at the end.

Thanks for the help but didn't changed anything as I found out that RealChute isn't causing any of these problems. Somehow the NovaPunch parachutes are messed up so they are producing way too much drag and way too fast if not shielded but this shouldn't bother you. Ferram will help me to sort this out...

[stupid_chris]

Actually, the wrong link was posted for second image there. Fixed.

It's meant to show that a 5+ G's increase can easily be achieved on chute deployment. To simulate high-G reentry with a reasonable craft, all I needed was a Mun gravity assist to slingshot the craft back to Kerbin.

An interplanetary return, or a Kerbol gravity assist, can easily make your reentry at 6km/s+, double the speed of the screenshots, if no faster. Since the G's experienced are exponential to speed, that should throw the G-o'meter gauge on the red zone. Come in fast enough, and no method or altitude of deployment will save you from utter disintegration.

If you are playing with Deadly Reentry, I really can't understand why you would want to reenter at that speed. Just do multiple passes to slow you down to not have ridiculous speeds on deployment and you should be fine. I also don'T see why you would deploy at that height. Parachutes aren't deployed in the middle of reentry shock heating usually. Just wait for it to pass and it should be fine.

Is there actually a combo drogue/main parachute part in the mod yet?

Not yet. The only supported parachute is sumghai's SDHI parachute/dockingport. Next update will have some.

Thanks for the help but didn't changed anything as I found out that RealChute isn't causing any of these problems. Somehow the NovaPunch parachutes are messed up so they are producing way too much drag and way too fast if not shielded but this shouldn't bother you. Ferram will help me to sort this out...

Aye, keep me informed!

Also, I've started to work on using real drag. So far so good, that actually shortened the code by about a hundred lines, playing with custom vectors instead of with the part's drag coefficient is much easier.

[jrandom]

Would it be possible in future release to have a FAR-compatible download? That way us FAR users won't have to keeping editing the .cfg files everytime we update this mod!