[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[Ratzap]

I'm using the RftS engine configs and I wondered why every engine I own is either 1 ignition only or infinite. Or is it supposed to increase with tech levels over the initial buy level?

[SpacedInvader]

I'm using the RftS engine configs and I wondered why every engine I own is either 1 ignition only or infinite. Or is it supposed to increase with tech levels over the initial buy level?

I think its engine class specific... L(+) will only get one and U(+) will have 1 usually, or at most 2-3. Then once you get to O, you start getting multiple or even infinite ignites depending on configuration (hypergolics, pressure feed, ullage). That all being said, not every engine is configured to work with RftS and/or Engine Igniter and when they aren't, they usually default to infinite.

EDIT: You also don't get more ignitions with tech level. You can, however, install igniter packs which allow you to manually reset ignitions for an engine, and there is also a radial hypergolic tank which should allow you multiple restarts on non-restartable engines (I think... haven't actually played with this at all).

Edited May 14, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[Ratzap]

EDIT: You also don't get more ignitions with tech level. You can, however, install igniter packs which allow you to manually reset ignitions for an engine, and there is also a radial hypergolic tank which should allow you multiple restarts on non-restartable engines (I think... haven't actually played with this at all).

I know these are there but they only work with kerbals going EVA - not something you use with a probe or during a launch I'm up to tech 3 engines and nothing at all has anything but 1 or infinite (I found and flicked through the RtfS config for this and some are set to -2 or such which is what made me think of tech level influence).

[SpacedInvader]

I know these are there but they only work with kerbals going EVA - not something you use with a probe or during a launch I'm up to tech 3 engines and nothing at all has anything but 1 or infinite (I found and flicked through the RtfS config for this and some are set to -2 or such which is what made me think of tech level influence).

I'm not sure about the -2, but if you have a good variety of engines installed (AIES, KW, NP2, etc), there are plenty of options. You have to pay attention to fuel types and whether the tanks are pressurized to config your vehicle properly. My best suggestion is the use the JR1(not 100%, but it looks like a square block with a white bottom with a nozzle) in combination with stretchy service module and MMH/N2O4 fuel. This is a pressurized, hypergolic mixture which would give you unlimited restarts without having to worry about fuel stability.

[Adalonus]

Are you playing with RPL MS19e? IE, did you install Tree Loader and all the mods listed on the OP?

If you are new to KSP in general, it might be a good idea to read the OP of any mods you are having issues with first. Some of the mods require post install changes, or additions in order to function as intended.

And if you could say the name of the parts you are having issues with that'd be great.

Welcome to the forums!

Thanks! All the mods in the OP are installed except for Kerbal Engineer Redux. I think the streamer was using an earlier version which was throwing me off. I got the stretchable fuel tanks when I upgraded to Basic Rocketry, where he got it when he started. Just to be clear, these are the starting propulsion systems when you only take the free tech except the "to be sorted" ones, correct?

[NathanKell]

Yep, some engines have multiple ignitions based on TL: in a CONFIG block, a negative number means "TL-this = ignitions" and 0 means infinite (Note that this is the opposite of Engine Ignitor itself, where -1 = infinite).

Your best bet is to check out Calcs.xls (link in 2nd post in RF thread) which is what I generate RftS from. The first (docs) page explains what stuff in the ignitions column means. For orbital maneuvering systems like SPS, I tend to give them infinite ignitions because while in practice you probably couldn't ignite SPS more than, say, 50? times without risking a failure, you'd be out of propellant before then anyway.

[Ratzap]

I'm not sure about the -2, but if you have a good variety of engines installed (AIES, KW, NP2, etc), there are plenty of options. You have to pay attention to fuel types and whether the tanks are pressurized to config your vehicle properly. My best suggestion is the use the JR1(not 100%, but it looks like a square block with a white bottom with a nozzle) in combination with stretchy service module and MMH/N2O4 fuel. This is a pressurized, hypergolic mixture which would give you unlimited restarts without having to worry about fuel stability.

I'm fairly confident I know what I'm doing thanks and ullage or how to get multiple ignitions to work isn't the problem - ignition numbers on lower engines are. For instance it'd be nice to have some options in the launch stages that let me shut off, coast some then re-ignite to circularize cleanly.

Yep, some engines have multiple ignitions based on TL: in a CONFIG block, a negative number means "TL-this = ignitions" and 0 means infinite (Note that this is the opposite of Engine Ignitor itself, where -1 = infinite).

Your best bet is to check out Calcs.xls (link in 2nd post in RF thread) which is what I generate RftS from. The first (docs) page explains what stuff in the ignitions column means. For orbital maneuvering systems like SPS, I tend to give them infinite ignitions because while in practice you probably couldn't ignite SPS more than, say, 50? times without risking a failure, you'd be out of propellant before then anyway.

Ok, I thought it might be something like that. I'll dig around in there and see if there's something that has what I want.

[Ratzap]

I built the biggest thing I could to get the Mars/Venus missions underway but you evil man made them weigh 1.4t each. Putting the absolute minimum bits on them plus an insertion motor brought them up to 3.1t. After an evening of tweaking and fiddling I present the below - return of the enormous wobbly rocket! 18,820 dV should just about make it if I launch on a window.

My word though, it isn't half wobbly! Reminds me of before kerbal joint reinforcement. It broke in half twice on test launches because SAS amplifies the wobble

[taro8]

Hi, I have downloaded all the essential mods, but I end up without any command pod or any way to control the vehicles. Someone noticed that before, but the answer didnt explain anything at all.

Did I do something wrong?

BTW: I remember there being a Tech Tree mod that started you out with prop driven aircrafts instead of rockets. I dont remember the name, do you guys know it?

[MedievalNerd]

I built the biggest thing I could to get the Mars/Venus missions underway but you evil man made them weigh 1.4t each. Putting the absolute minimum bits on them plus an insertion motor brought them up to 3.1t. After an evening of tweaking and fiddling I present the below - return of the enormous wobbly rocket! 18,820 dV should just about make it if I launch on a window.

My word though, it isn't half wobbly! Reminds me of before kerbal joint reinforcement. It broke in half twice on test launches because SAS amplifies the wobble

http://i.imgur.com/vv1klYQ.jpg

Woa, ok. I was having moments of insanity when I made those.

For some reason 1,400 pounds became 1.4 tons...

I'm so proud of myself sometimes...

Edited May 15, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[MedievalNerd]

Hi, I have downloaded all the essential mods, but I end up without any command pod or any way to control the vehicles. Someone noticed that before, but the answer didnt explain anything at all.

Did I do something wrong?

BTW: I remember there being a Tech Tree mod that started you out with prop driven aircrafts instead of rockets. I dont remember the name, do you guys know it?

I recall people to wanting to build such a tree (starting with Planes) but I don't remember seeing a thread about it. sorry don't know it's name if it had one.

As for not having any probes, did you unlock all the free nodes? are you sure you also installed the MS19E tweak pack? (check the op)

Edited May 15, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[taro8]

As for not having any probes, did you unlock all the free nodes? are you sure you also installed the MS19E tweak pack? (check the op)

Downloaded and installed all essentials. MS19E tweak pack installed as well. Unlocked all the free nodes, none of them had command pods, just a warhead.

What I could have done wrong was during installation of some of the essentials. Dont know if that may be the case, but I will take some time to double check everything. If you got any info that would allow me to pinpoint the problem I will be grateful.

BTW: There is a couple of huge tanks from FASA that are available from start. Out of place if you ask me.

[MedievalNerd]

Downloaded and installed all essentials. MS19E tweak pack installed as well. Unlocked all the free nodes, none of them had command pods, just a warhead.

What I could have done wrong was during installation of some of the essentials. Dont know if that may be the case, but I will take some time to double check everything. If you got any info that would allow me to pinpoint the problem I will be grateful.

BTW: There is a couple of huge tanks from FASA that are available from start. Out of place if you ask me.

You must have missed a step. After unlocking all the free nodes, the one furthest to the north will have a few antennas and the WAC probe core.

I'd suggest reading over the OP, and the subset of instructions for RSS & RO.

The RPL Tweak pack either uses existing models from both stock & mods. The WAC Probe is a modified nosecone from AIES if I'm not mistaken. (or KW)

Does Module Manager give you any errors on boot? How many patches is it reporting?

You can also share your output_log.txt file so we can see what's going on during boot, and what not.

Edited May 15, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[Adalonus]

First off, I just wanted to say thank you for replying so quickly and being on top of everything. I was hoping you could help me with an issue of not being able to load the tanks with fuels. If I right click on the tank, usually I can pick the fuel type, but now when I click the button, it doesn't do anything. Any ideas?

[prc]

I built the biggest thing I could to get the Mars/Venus missions underway but you evil man made them weigh 1.4t each. Putting the absolute minimum bits on them plus an insertion motor brought them up to 3.1t. After an evening of tweaking and fiddling I present the below - return of the enormous wobbly rocket! 18,820 dV should just about make it if I launch on a window.

My word though, it isn't half wobbly! Reminds me of before kerbal joint reinforcement. It broke in half twice on test launches because SAS amplifies the wobble

As a workaround (if you dont modify the config file). You could try this kind of design. Note it is quite innefficient due to much higher drag, so might be that on low tech level engines you just cant get enough dV for it to work. Generally it is bad design.

The original rocket did not have those small (0.625m) orange tanks and engines (and as mechjeb shows, I did not even throw in fuel). I just loaded some rocket and threw that crap on it for 'demo purposes'.

Due to those struts, it should limit wobbling of the upper part significantly. So you might try that.

Remember its bad design, and I am just trying to learn to build rockets with RO5 RPL19e etc..

Note: There are actually 2 struts in upper part of the tanks (above the decouplers) and 1 set of struts on the lower part to 'tie it' on the main rocket.

http://paste.nerv.fi/62767512-asdf.png

Do not consider it as example of good rocket

[taro8]

Does Module Manager give you any errors on boot? How many patches is it reporting?

885 patches and 0 errors.

You can also share your output_log.txt file so we can see what's going on during boot, and what not.

http://pastelink.me/dl/54c650

BTW: The FASA ads quite a few parts that come too early like giant Atlas H and F tanks and some structural for them.

[Mirean]

What about the Stretchy SRB's? As I already said, I unlocked 3 tech nodes in the SRB line and they are not showing up in VAB :/ (MS19e, everything updated)

[prc]

885 patches and 0 errors.

http://pastelink.me/dl/54c650

BTW: The FASA ads quite a few parts that come too early like giant Atlas H and F tanks and some structural for them.

I have 1035 patches. And that is after removing most of the fuel tanks from KWrocketry, NovaPunch2 and FASA.

You definetly have missed some installation steps. It was over 1060 before removing anything.

At least RPL, RealismOverhaul, RealSolarSystem and RealFuels have some extra instructions after the download link you need to follow.

[Adalonus]

I have 1035 patches. And that is after removing most of the fuel tanks from KWrocketry, NovaPunch2 and FASA.

You definetly have missed some installation steps. It was over 1060 before removing anything.

At least RPL, RealismOverhaul, RealSolarSystem and RealFuels have some extra instructions after the download link you need to follow.

I have ~900. I must have missed some steps too. This must be what some of the issues I'm having are related to.

[Ratzap]

As a workaround (if you dont modify the config file). You could try this kind of design. Note it is quite innefficient due to much higher drag, so might be that on low tech level engines you just cant get enough dV for it to work. Generally it is bad design.

Yeah I'm not new to this, between the new stiffness in 0.23.5 and kerbal reinforcement mod it shouldn't be as bad. A few versions ago longer rockets were an awful lot worse, perhaps I've just found the right length where the new code breaks down and weeps

[Ratzap]

Hey Medi! The claw (aka the grappling arm for asteroids) is not in the tree.cfg anywhere. My earth has been hit by 2 Bs and a C already - save the earthicans! Give us the claw!

[Mirean]

For anyone who doesn't have the stretchy SRBs in the VAB or R&D facility, here is a quick fix I made:

open GameData\RPL\Tweaks\Stretchy\RPL_tech.cfg and add these lines:

@PART[stretchyTankSRB]:Final

{

@techRequired = SRBstorage1

}

@PART[stretchyTankSRBUpper]:Final

{

@techRequired = SRBstorage1

}

This will enable them in new careers. If you want to add them to your existing career, open tree.cfg in saves\YourCareerName\, CTRL+F and find SRBstorage1 and add this:

name = stretchyTankSRB

name = stretchyTankSRBUpper

just after "name = solidBooster1-1". Hope it works, it worked for me

[taro8]

Could you guys list all the folder names in "Game Data" folder, that exist when all the essential mods are installed. This way it will be easier for me to find what am I missing.

[MedievalNerd]

Hey Medi! The claw (aka the grappling arm for asteroids) is not in the tree.cfg anywhere. My earth has been hit by 2 Bs and a C already - save the earthicans! Give us the claw!

O_o

Oh noes!

But... I wonder, where the hell is it then?

I don't have any unassigned parts when I load the tree. That's... not reassuring.

[MedievalNerd]

Could you guys list all the folder names in "Game Data" folder, that exist when all the essential mods are installed. This way it will be easier for me to find what am I missing.

I'm working on an epic excel sheet with extremely detailed instructions and will have a link table with a checklist that you can flag to confirm you downloaded, installed, and where applicable, made the post install changes/edits.

There will also be an installation video!

Hang in there, sorry that you are experiencing issues.