[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[horndgmium]

horndgmium: what version of KSP? What mods? Output log? Why are you thinking RO (which only changes part stats, it doesn't even have any code itself!) is doing this?

Okay so it turns out I hadn't deleted everything but RSS/Overhaul -- Remote tech 2 was nestled in there among all the R's.

And also removing it fixed my problem with the melting ships.

Cool cool cool.

[Blipser]

Thanks for the help Nathan, I increased ATM scale all the way to eight but I'm still having frequent crashes. Here's my log, any ideas?

[catas4trophy]

I have been playing KSP for a while now and just decided to jump over to the Realism Overhaul mods. I have everything working except deadly reentry. It's waaaaaay to powerful. Every entry angle and my crew dies of G-forces then the capsule exploded. The weird thing is that the Ablative shielding only goes down a bit before the entire thing overheats and goes boom. I have tried to modify the Temp exponent as well as the Multiplier from 25 down to around 6. Still no luck. I'm not sure where to go form here, anyone else had a problem like this?

[NathanKell]

Phredward, very cool! Thanks for these! (And nice album!)

I'll stick the shield and port in.

Maybe PM SFJackBauer about the CECE? That's (engines) his bailiwick.

Blipser: Update Exsurgent Engineering (use the link in the OP) and...well, you're getting errors from Final Frontier. Try updating that, if you don't have the latest version; if you do, let the author know it's casuing a bunch of NREs in EventObserver.Update->FlightGlboas.get_ActiveVessel

catas4trophy: sounds like your descents are too steep. From a 300km LEO you want a perigee of >70km, I'd say. Make sure you have one (and only one) Module Manager dll in GameData; make sure you are using the heat shields from RO (or, if using the Mk1 pod, no heatshield since one is built in); follow the instructions in the OP for Deadly Reentry and do NOT edit the settings (RO's heatshields are built for stock DRE settings).

After all that if still burning up, picture of your reentry module and post-deorbit burn from map view (final Ap/Pe before atmospheric entry).

[Guest]

Any RO fixes/rescales for the KSO shuttle system?

thanks

[Blipser]

Thanks for the quick reply Nathan but I updated EE and removed FF but im still having crashes. Log.

[catas4trophy]

Phredward, very cool! Thanks for these! (And nice album!)

I'll stick the shield and port in.

Maybe PM SFJackBauer about the CECE? That's (engines) his bailiwick.

Blipser: Update Exsurgent Engineering (use the link in the OP) and...well, you're getting errors from Final Frontier. Try updating that, if you don't have the latest version; if you do, let the author know it's casuing a bunch of NREs in EventObserver.Update->FlightGlboas.get_ActiveVessel

catas4trophy: sounds like your descents are too steep. From a 300km LEO you want a perigee of >70km, I'd say. Make sure you have one (and only one) Module Manager dll in GameData; make sure you are using the heat shields from RO (or, if using the Mk1 pod, no heatshield since one is built in); follow the instructions in the OP for Deadly Reentry and do NOT edit the settings (RO's heatshields are built for stock DRE settings).

After all that if still burning up, picture of your reentry module and post-deorbit burn from map view (final Ap/Pe before atmospheric entry).

I went through and cleaned up the extra Module Managers. I am currently on a suborbital trajectory with an apoapsis of 380km. Velocity is 4300/surface and 4800/orbital. The entire thing burns up even before the Ablative shield is down by much. I'm stumped.

[NathanKell]

Aazard: IIRC it doesn't work with FAR, so...

Blipser: still lots of random stuff. My suggestion would be to move half your mods out of GameData (well, not arbitrarily half; leave mods in if they're dependencies...) and try KSP. If that works, move some more back in; if it crashes, move more out.

catas4trophy: two issues here. First, suborbital ballistic reentries are *very* high-G and thus dangerous for crew. On the shallow suborbital shots used at the start of the Mercury program (only about 180km high) they experienced 11+ Gs. Second, it looks like you're using an extra heat shield on top of the pod; instead, you need the FASA patch from post 2 of this thread, which makes FASA parts fit for RO (and gives pods their appropriate heat shields). One reason why you need that patch--besides getting the right heat shield for Mercury--is that it rescales the pod to be its actual size; stock and non-realism part mods in KSP usually have realistic masses but are much, much smaller than their real life counterparts; this leads to lower drag, a higher ballistic coefficient, and a much worse reentry than in real life.

So: Get the realism patch for FASA. Don't use an extra heat shield. And, if at all possible, *Do not* do suborbital reentries; if you must, make them much more shallow.

[coldblade2000]

I have a problem and I don't know what is causing it. With realism overhaul + RSS+ requirements for them, when I crash into something like the ground at high speeds, the game lags a LOT, I'm talking 0.7FPS, eventually crashing if I don't revert launch. Here are the mods that MIGHT be the cause(basically most mods with a .dll), I'll get you a log in a few minutes:

Deadly Reentry

Engine Ignitor

FAR

Firespitter

KJR

KM_Gimbal

Real Chute

Realism Overhaul

Real Solar System

Remote Tech 2

Lazor pack

ScanSat

RPL Tweak Pack

SFJBRealEngines

StretchyTanks

Engine Thrust Controller

Edit: The log ends up being huge, over 8MB. It just spams :

[EXC 18:53:16.516] ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.

Parameter name: index

[EXC 18:53:16.569] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

Here is a part of the log of a part colliding with the ground:

[LOG 18:53:16.851] liquidEngineconstelacion collided into model_launchpad_ground_collider_v46 - relative velocity: 21.76216 - no impact momentum (no RB)

[LOG 18:53:16.852] liquidEngineconstelacion Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.5

[LOG 18:53:16.853] RemoteTech: SatelliteManager: OnVesselCreate(00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000, )

[ERR 18:53:16.854] Joint::setBreakable: maxForce should be nonnegative!

[ERR 18:53:16.855] Joint::setBreakable: maxForce should be nonnegative!

[ERR 18:53:16.855] Joint::setBreakable: maxForce should be nonnegative!

[ERR 18:53:16.856] Joint::setBreakable: maxForce should be nonnegative!

[ERR 18:53:16.856] Destroying components immediately is not permitted during physics trigger/contact, animation event callbacks or OnValidate. You must use Destroy instead.

[LOG 18:53:16.857] AGM : Setup root !

[EXC 18:53:16.858] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

[EXC 18:53:16.864] ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.

Parameter name: index

[LOG 18:53:16.904] 1 explosions created.

[EXC 18:53:16.911] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

Edited April 6, 2014 by coldblade2000

[catas4trophy]

I have a problem and I don't know what is causing it. With realism overhaul + RSS+ requirements for them, when I crash into something like the ground at high speeds, the game lags a LOT, I'm talking 0.7FPS, eventually crashing if I don't revert launch. Here are the mods that MIGHT be the cause(basically most mods with a .dll), I'll get you a log in a few minutes:

Deadly Reentry

Engine Ignitor

FAR

Firespitter

KJR

KM_Gimbal

Real Chute

Realism Overhaul

Real Solar System

Remote Tech 2

Lazor pack

ScanSat

RPL Tweak Pack

SFJBRealEngines

StretchyTanks

Engine Thrust Controller

try this

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005

[catas4trophy]

Aazard: IIRC it doesn't work with FAR, so...

Blipser: still lots of random stuff. My suggestion would be to move half your mods out of GameData (well, not arbitrarily half; leave mods in if they're dependencies...) and try KSP. If that works, move some more back in; if it crashes, move more out.

catas4trophy: two issues here. First, suborbital ballistic reentries are *very* high-G and thus dangerous for crew. On the shallow suborbital shots used at the start of the Mercury program (only about 180km high) they experienced 11+ Gs. Second, it looks like you're using an extra heat shield on top of the pod; instead, you need the FASA patch from post 2 of this thread, which makes FASA parts fit for RO (and gives pods their appropriate heat shields). One reason why you need that patch--besides getting the right heat shield for Mercury--is that it rescales the pod to be its actual size; stock and non-realism part mods in KSP usually have realistic masses but are much, much smaller than their real life counterparts; this leads to lower drag, a higher ballistic coefficient, and a much worse reentry than in real life.

So: Get the realism patch for FASA. Don't use an extra heat shield. And, if at all possible, *Do not* do suborbital reentries; if you must, make them much more shallow.

Got it now, thanks for your help. I have the heat shields that I need and can finally try and make orbit without killing the crew. Still working my way there from probes but it's a start. Thanks again for your help.

[NathanKell]

coldblade2000: ksp.log doesn't tell you *what's* causing all that. I need the output_log.txt from KSP/KSP_Data/output_log.txt. Post the *whole* log somewhere.

catas4trophy: cool!

[Guest]

Aazard: IIRC it doesn't work with FAR, so....

It seems to fly very well in current FAR, so i believe its supporting FAR (or its a total fluke it flys like a bird). seems to lack real fuel/fuel supply to orbit in RSS. If its not going to be supported (which is sad due it its great DRE re-entry support, and its beautiful looks) is there a RSS/RO shuttle to use? Not a major issue, but when i "custom build" a shuttle it burns up even on the most vareful reentries (at about 1500 degrees+)

[frozenbacon]

For the KSO, here is a config I have been using over the past week. Includes modified engines, fuel tanks, and FAR values for the aerodynamic parts. Didn't resize because the cockpit always went back to its original size after I loaded a save. Was able to get about 2 tons up into a 200x200km orbit with it, with about 600m/s of delta v left.

http://pastebin.com/dDhFf4uv

Heatshields need to be beefed up for reentry, though.

[coldblade2000]

catas4trophy: I do have ATM, that's the only way I can even run all my mods.

NathanKell : Will do, gimme a minute

Edit: The output_log.txt spams the following:

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSPAchievements.VesselRef.FromVessel (.Vessel v) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KSPAchievements.CelestialBodyReturn.OnVesselSituationChange (HostedFromToAction`2 vs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[Vessel,Vessel+Situations]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.updateSituation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSPAchievements.VesselRef.FromVessel (.Vessel v) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KSPAchievements.CelestialBodyReturn.OnVesselSituationChange (HostedFromToAction`2 vs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[Vessel,Vessel+Situations]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.updateSituation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSPAchievements.VesselRef.FromVessel (.Vessel v) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KSPAchievements.CelestialBodyReturn.OnVesselSituationChange (HostedFromToAction`2 vs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[Vessel,Vessel+Situations]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.updateSituation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSPAchievements.VesselRef.FromVessel (.Vessel v) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KSPAchievements.CelestialBodyReturn.OnVesselSituationChange (HostedFromToAction`2 vs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[Vessel,Vessel+Situations]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.updateSituation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSPAchievements.VesselRef.FromVessel (.Vessel v) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KSPAchievements.CelestialBodyReturn.OnVesselSituationChange (HostedFromToAction`2 vs) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[Vessel,Vessel+Situations]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.updateSituation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Full log is here: http://www./view/oosfva4o70k8em9/output_log.txt

Edited April 6, 2014 by coldblade2000

[NathanKell]

Given that it's referring to KSP Achievements, I'd suggest removing that and seeing if things get fixed.

[coldblade2000]

I don't have KSP Achievements. Might be part of a related mod or something from the planned progress thing that can be seen in the debug menu. I fixed the problem now though.

--------For people who find this with Google searching for answers--------------

However I did see both RemoteTech2 and ActionGroupManager doing some spamming in the logs. AGM said "Setup Root !" or something similar while RT2 just put out random things. I downloaded the Community hotfix for RT2 and deleted AGM. I also deleted all debris in the game. One of those three solved my problems for now. I get no lag now and no Exceptions when there is a collision.

On an even brighter side, I finally got to Martian orbit!

[frisch]

Most of the engines see to lose their gimbal capability when I install RftS. BobCatnid's russian engines still gimball, as does the Nerva, but most don't. Otherwise things work very well. I think I have the latest version of everything. If I remove Rfts, the engines are back to their orignal small sized, but gimbal. again.

[NathanKell]

Did you follow the instructions when downloading RftS Engines to also download the gimbal plugin?

[shabbycow]

Speaking of RftS, just started using it instead of stockalikes. Is there any way to make the thrust limiter in VAB work? I realize it's disabled to prevent cheating by using it in flight on engines that aren't supposed to throttle, or maybe it's just the result of how Real Fuels works? Or have i also failed to install correctly, and that's why it's not working? Mechjeb tells me the TWR is changed when using the slider, but when flying there is no difference. I would kinda like to be able to tweak the engines to suit what i want to use them for if it is possible, i don't mind if that would mean unrealistic stats or anything. If that's not possible i guess i'll just have to deal with it, or use the stock config again.

Edited April 7, 2014 by shabbycow

[IronStar]

Sorry if it has already been discussed but i have problem with SFJackBauer's RealEngines - the gimbal sensitivity is very hight, each time i touch direction button engines gimbals achieve their full angle in that direction and it seriously hampers stability, and when SAS is enabled, should there be even small vobble the gimbal begin to "stabilize" the rocket in a violent way leading to loss of stability(howewer i ve partially managed to cope with it by enabling smooth gimbals mode). I thought that it could be possibly dealt with by FAR control panel but there is another problem- when i have SFJackBauer's RealEngines installed, exactly on a rocket launchap toolbar with FAR panel dont appear(however engineer redux works) and both appear again only on orbit- i ve checked- it only happens if i have SFJackBauer's RealEngines installed.

[NathanKell]

shabbycow: Given how thrust limiting actually works (it doesn't limit thrust, it limits throttle), no, there isn't a way to use it unless the engine already supports throttling.

If you have the various mods' engines, you should have enough options--what "holes" are you finding that you need to use thrust limiting to fill?

IronStar: Try using capslock for fine controls. Regarding FAR, that's *very* weird. You're saying the entire toolbar doesn't appear when using these engines? I'd post on the Toolbar thread about that.

[IronStar]

"Try using capslock for fine controls"- i ll try it

"doesn't appear when using these engines?"- it appears, but only on orbit or near it, which is even more weird.

[IronStar]

I ve checked toolbar issue again- it happens with very particular engine- vesta vr-9 d or rl10A4(its how that engine renamed in RealEngines).

So when SFJackBauer's RealEngines installed and rl10A4 is installed on rocket- toolbar doesnt appear until reaching really hight altitude.

[Sandworm]

I went through and cleaned up the extra Module Managers. I am currently on a suborbital trajectory with an apoapsis of 380km. Velocity is 4300/surface and 4800/orbital. The entire thing burns up even before the Ablative shield is down by much. I'm stumped.

I'm in exactly the same place. No extra module managers. I think it;s burning up at 5gs regardless of shielding. I cannot find a reentry that doesn't eventually hit that 5g mark.

I think I'm just going to ditch deadly reentry.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Sandworm