[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[RealGecko]

24 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@RealGecko: indeed, that is the place.

Great, thanks!

[cgwhite4]

Sounds like my current JunkEater rovers, which have on-board metal tanks but not scrap metal tanks, may end up being "eaten" themselves by replacement models.

On another note, it is good to have Augers working again after 2 outages.  Next stop: Moho... ...as soon as I figure out how much rocketry I need to handle the steep delta V demands of the Moho capture burn and still have enough to get back to safety (preferably Kerbin).

[sardia]

2 hours ago, taniwha said:

I'm curious: how would people feel about me changing recycling to produce ScrapMetal instead of Metal in the next minor (eg, 5.7.0) release? As mentioned before, the only reason I haven't made the change is I wanted to avoid breaking people's saves.

It would mean that for recyclers to be useful, smelters would have to be available, and scrap metal can take quite a bit of space (I'd have to either make more storage containers, or make MFT a required mod (meaning I could ditch a lot of storage containers)).

In the end, I'll make the decision on my own (like I did with removing insta-build and free builds), but I want to get a feel for the change's reception and give a heads-up that it may be coming.

Is this to give Scrap more of a use? Other than the increased weight from the smelter, will the resulting metal be the same as before?

[Jarin]

6 hours ago, taniwha said:

I'm curious: how would people feel about me changing recycling to produce ScrapMetal instead of Metal in the next minor (eg, 5.7.0) release? As mentioned before, the only reason I haven't made the change is I wanted to avoid breaking people's saves.

I'm all for it, as long as the obvious scrap storage issues are addressed (not a huge fan of making MFT required, since I don't typically use it, but I'd deal). Any existing save that would be affected should already have manufacturing in place, so building out the extra scrap processing infrastructure in-place shouldn't be too onerous a task.

[tsaven]

4 hours ago, sonic246246 said:

I have success before, while play in V 1.2.2, it just show 0s and suddenly show finish while i press build button, how to solve it??

Make sure you've got a not-stupid Pilot on board.  I had this exact problem and it took me a bit to realize that you need a pilot to build stuff, not just Engineers.

6 hours ago, taniwha said:

I'm curious: how would people feel about me changing recycling to produce ScrapMetal instead of Metal in the next minor (eg, 5.7.0) release?

My opinion may not be as useful to you as I play with MKS which replaces the EL resource chain, but from a gameplay perspective I think it sounds like a good change.  Slightly similar to MKS actually in that it adds another conversion step, but to me that makes sense.

[Superfluous J]

6 hours ago, taniwha said:

ScrapMetal is not a new resource: it has been in EL for quite some time (produced when working Metal into RocketParts, introduced Apr 2014)

Hmm I think I remember that now. I've not used EL for a while. However, I've used it over the past few weeks and didn't know anything about scrap metal, yet am building ships fine (though I suppose slightly less efficiently). And now that I know that Scrap Metal is being wasted, I still have no desire to utilize it. I'll just live with the waste, or mod it away, rather than deal with an extra resource.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything merely speaking my opinion on the matter. And my problem with extra resources isn't with you, it's with Squad not allowing us to swap what resources the tanks hold which means frequently we need 2-5 times the number of tanks I think you should need, clogging up the VAB.

[nascarlaser1]

Anyone know how to build base with the Launchpad? The only attachment points make it impossible to build stuff, and deliver it due to the thing flipping around from the rockets during landing (unless I'm doing it wrong.)

[sardia]

Can you use the GUI to select the launchpad? You can switch launchpads depending on where you want it built. 

[nascarlaser1]

48 minutes ago, sardia said:

Can you use the GUI to select the launchpad? You can switch launchpads depending on where you want it built. 

I can't attach things to the Launchpad though, like docking ports and extra base pieces.

[sardia]

Try KAS mod and use a connecting pipe to link them.

At worst, use this for testing purposes. Then we can figure out a better way. Or just use the mod.

Edited December 21, 2016 by sardia

[wasml]

13 hours ago, taniwha said:

I'm curious: how would people feel about me changing recycling to produce ScrapMetal instead of Metal

Funny - I had just this thought a few days ago while watching a recycler doing its thing. Makes more sense to me to have to process the recycled material before use rather than using it directly to build stuff. Either way thanks for maintaining/improving this mod.

[taniwha]

10 hours ago, sardia said:

Is this to give Scrap more of a use? Other than the increased weight from the smelter, will the resulting metal be the same as before?

The resulting metal will be the same (more actually, as I've decided the reclamation rate for scrap from rocket parts will be 90% instead of the 80% it is for metal from rocket parts).

 

7 hours ago, Jarin said:

I'm all for it, as long as the obvious scrap storage issues are addressed (not a huge fan of making MFT required, since I don't typically use it, but I'd deal).

TBH, I'm not a fan of adding another mod requirement myself. I mentioned it because even I find the clutter of EL-specific tank parts to be... irksome.

7 hours ago, Jarin said:

Any existing save that would be affected should already have manufacturing in place, so building out the extra scrap processing infrastructure in-place shouldn't be too onerous a task.

Really, just a few large tanks to hold the scrap (not as much as for rocket parts (density of 0.8 for scrap vs 0.5 for parts)).

6 hours ago, tsaven said:

Make sure you've got a not-stupid Pilot on board.  I had this exact problem and it took me a bit to realize that you need a pilot to build stuff, not just Engineers.

This sounds like the EL 5.5.3 + MM < 2.7.5 issue where skills were not being applied and the skill check logic was reversed. Pilots affect only survey range, and stupidity is irrelevant (wasn't sure how to factor it in).

5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Do not get me wrong, I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything merely speaking my opinion on the matter.

And I thank you for that opinion. It gave me something to address as I imagine many others feel a similar way.

 

5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

And my problem with extra resources isn't with you, it's with Squad not allowing us to swap what resources the tanks hold which means frequently we need 2-5 times the number of tanks I think you should need, clogging up the VAB.

Yeah. This is why I suggested making MFT a requirement, but I can understand people not wanting it to be required.

 

2 hours ago, sardia said:

At worst, use this for testing purposes. Then we can figure out a better way. Or just use the mod.

While KIS is a hard requirement for survey builds, I consider KAS to be a soft requirement for getting the most out of EL.

[Jarin]

14 minutes ago, taniwha said:

I consider KAS to be a soft requirement for getting the most out of EL.

Out of curiousity, what do you use KAS for? I've never really had much success finding practical use for KAS other than the EVA struts and Pipes. And even those hardly see much use these days. Autostrut mostly deals with the former, and I prefer EVA Resource Transfer pipes for most uses I had for the pipes previously. (KIS on the other hand, I couldn't live without)

I mean, in theory, you could make cranes and whatnot to assemble bits and pieces of a base, but when you can survey-build an entire large base in one go, that's less useful. But if you consider it a soft requirement for EL, I suspect you have specific uses in mind, and I would love to get more out of the mod.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jarin

[tsaven]

50 minutes ago, taniwha said:

Yeah. This is why I suggested making MFT a requirement, but I can understand people not wanting it to be required.

I would strongly be against making MFT a requirement.  While it is a very useful function and makes the mod vastly more workable, other mods besides MFT do the same thing (MKS, namely).

Suggesting a strong requirement for a tank-switching mod I can understand, but if you make it a hard and fast requirement (IE will not install without it) it just leads to more and more unneeded dependencies.  I would think it's better to let people use the other mods they want, rather than forcing another one on them.

[taniwha]

33 minutes ago, Jarin said:

I mean, in theory, you could make cranes and whatnot to assemble bits and pieces of a base, but when you can survey-build an entire large base in one go, that's less useful. But if you consider it a soft requirement for EL, I suspect you have specific uses in mind, and I would love to get more out of the mod.

Actually... cranes. For base build-out. Yes, you can build an entire base in one go, but I prefer to take a modular approach. One of my favorite toys when I was little was a wooden crane my dad had made for me. When I was older, I would make cranes out of Mechano and Lego.

I agree, KAS doesn't add as much relative value to KSP as it did a few years ago, but I feel it still has its place. It really depends on your play-style. Also, I despise auto-struts.

For similar reasons, my space stations always have at least one tug hanging around: my stations are modular and are built a module at a time (sometimes they look like something from Titan AE, thanks to KIS).

2 minutes ago, tsaven said:

I would strongly be against making MFT a requirement.

I've decided that adding the tanks and letting people MM (and delete) away the excess as appropriate is the way to go.

[Jengaleng]

 

On 12/20/2016 at 8:15 PM, TheRagingIrishman said:

The newest version of MKS includes a Module Manager config  that gets rid of all EL parts except the mallet and survey stakes. To undo this go to GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS, open the file called EL_USI.cfg and delete the last 10 lines.

could you elaborate on this specifically? Deleting 10 lines seems like deleting the whole file. Thanks!

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jengaleng

[TheRagingIrishman]

4 minutes ago, Jengaleng said:

could you elaborate on this specifically? Deleting 10 lines seems like deleting the whole file. Thanks!

could you elaborate on this specifically? Deleting 10 lines seems like deleting the whole file. Thanks!

 

 

ya sorry that (10 lines) was due to me being on mobile and the strange formatting that comes of that. What you should do is delete everything from // Remove all extraneous EL parts. All that's needed is the survey stake and mallet. down. That will make all EL parts not get deleted.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[Jengaleng]

9 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

ya sorry that (10 lines) was due to me being on mobile and the strange formatting that comes of that. What you should do is delete everything from "// Remove all extraneous EL parts. All that's needed is the survey stake and mallet." down. That will make all EL parts not get deleted.

Great! Thank you very much. This issue has been keeping me away from KSP since it started.

[TheRagingIrishman]

1 minute ago, Jengaleng said:

Great! Thank you very much. This issue has been keeping me away from KSP since it started.

No problem, glad to help out with MKS and EL stuff (I've contributed some things to MKS and I've wrote an optional .cfg for MKS and EL that does a similar thing to what was causing your problem) so I've had a lot of experience and want to share it. 

[taniwha]

@TheRagingIrishman: and I thank you for your help whenever this issue pops up.

[TheRagingIrishman]

19 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@TheRagingIrishman: and I thank you for your help whenever this issue pops up.

Don't worry about it. As long as you keep updating, I'll keep helping. Also, the .cfg file I wrote and posted in the thread in November has over 500 downloads!

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[Agnemon]

Re changing recycler output to scrap metal.

 

I, for one am all for it. However I feel you should be able to opt in on an item by item basis. I currently have vessel in transfer orbits to the outer planets, they have been setup as seed ships working on the basis that recyclers produce metal. It would be a royal pain to have to rethink the strategy this late in the game.

Ideally a scrap metal container  becomes available with the mod using it if found other wise staying as it does now and at a later date changing it to only produce scrap metal.

One option vis tanks is to have a generic tank that can be re configured for contents on the fly when empty. You could change colours depending on content or icons.

 

One niggle I am having, not 100% sure that it is EL causing it, My stations keep changing the icon to base every time I put a ship thru the recycler. One thing I need to try is to see if the icon changes when I am in control of the ship being recycled or the ship doing the recycling.

 

[taniwha]

There are two problems (for users) I see with the switch to ScrapMetal:

1. Storage for ScrapMetal becomes a requirement rather than an option. While smelters do provide storage for ScrapMetal, it is woefully inadequate for recycling all but the smallest ships. Easy enough to build on-site with sufficient RocketParts available, but I need to create special tanks for those who do not wish to use MFT.
2. To make use of the ScrapMetal, a smelter is required to remelt it to Metal. However, easy enough to build on-site with sufficient RocketParts available.

Any other issues (such as current designs/mission plans being invalidated) stem from the above.

As mentioned earlier, switching the product of recycling is trivial for users who are comfortable editing config files..

1 hour ago, Agnemon said:

One niggle I am having, not 100% sure that it is EL causing it, My stations keep changing the icon to base every time I put a ship thru the recycler. One thing I need to try is to see if the icon changes when I am in control of the ship being recycled or the ship doing the recycling.

This sounds like a problem with the root node switching around when a ship is snagged (docked) by the recycling bin. I'll see what I can find.

[sardia]

Couldn't you just clone the 13k rocket parts container? All your other containers are tiny relatively speaking. Like metal storage maxes out at 2800, scrap and ore as well. 

[taniwha]

Certainly, but I think it would be better to create a texture for it. And indeed, little point in making small scrap bins (I know all too well just how quickly they fill up (Thursday was probably the worst day of the week).