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[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3


taniwha

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1 hour ago, Borg184 said:

This will probably be a silly question, but I've searched to no avail. Every single time I build a rocket on a launchpad, the rocket itself builds just fine, and even though I have enough LF/O onboard my base when building, every single time I build the rocket, no fuel gets taken from my base, and the rocket is always empty. This isn't so much of a problem when my rocket is attached to the base itself, like in an orbital launchpad, as I can then simply transfer fuel into it before undocking. However, when using a survey stake, I never get the option to transfer fuel into it, and all of my rockets start with no fuel. This is proving to be frustrating at best and mindboggling at worst, because I still get the fueling screen before the final undocking, but even though everything is set to 100%, it always spawns with nothing.

I got used to manually fill the spawned vessel right before releasing it

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2 hours ago, Borg184 said:

This will probably be a silly question, but I've searched to no avail. Every single time I build a rocket on a launchpad, the rocket itself builds just fine, and even though I have enough LF/O onboard my base when building, every single time I build the rocket, no fuel gets taken from my base, and the rocket is always empty. This isn't so much of a problem when my rocket is attached to the base itself, like in an orbital launchpad, as I can then simply transfer fuel into it before undocking. However, when using a survey stake, I never get the option to transfer fuel into it, and all of my rockets start with no fuel. This is proving to be frustrating at best and mindboggling at worst, because I still get the fueling screen before the final undocking, but even though everything is set to 100%, it always spawns with nothing.

For on the launchpad, it should be able to auto-fill, though the transfer before undocking is also a recommended method of handling things.

For the survey stakes builds - that's intended.  The sliders for fuel in that case are just for UI (and coding) consistency.

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So the smelters don't have a target temperature? My radiators keep pulling heat out even though the smelter's running at 10-12% efficiency.

I would just disable all radiators but stock ISRU requires them to produce fuel for the smelters, otherwise they overheat...

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I might have found an err with the recycling bin as I tried to chew up an old rocket booster which i had drained of everything but the mono. I steered the unit and activated the grinder before sending the par though Only certain parts were taken off the ship and the entire fuel tank (Includin the RCS tank) were left as well as the engine.

 

Is this potential a bug? I think it is due to the fact that the entire rocket booster should have been consumed.. Any thoughts on this

 

Space_Coyote

Parts of the booster consumed.. 

RCS Thrusters (Squad/Stock) all but 3 thursters consumed

Batteries (Squad/Stock) All consumed

Solar Panels (Near Future Tech Solar) , with one panet not coming consumed

Probodyne 2.5 meter probe 

Konstruction Clampotron Sr. 

 

Parts Not Consumed Fasa Gemini Medium Fuel tank (Silver) 

LR-91 Rocket engine (Fasta)

RCS Tank (Looking who makes that one..)

 

But everything else consumed.. but not sent to any of the 4 metal storage containers I have avoe the unit.

 

Again any thought?

 

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9 hours ago, Space_Coyote said:

Is this potential a bug? I think it is due to the fact that the entire rocket booster should have been consumed.. Any thoughts on this

Not a bug, intended feature with a solution. It's mentioned in the manual, even (however, not the solution, that's for you to find).

9 hours ago, Space_Coyote said:

But everything else consumed.. but not sent to any of the 4 metal storage containers I have avoe the unit.

Recycling produces ScrapMetal, not Metal. Here the "bug" is the fact that EL doesn't have much in the way of containers for ScrapMetal. This is on my TODO list.

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It seems to mostly work in 1.4.3, with the following exceptions:

1.  The UKS Orbital Shipyard, which looks really cool,  and I've loved using it in the past, no longer seems to register as an EPL construction part.
2.  USI MKS workshops no longer contribute to productivity; have to use the weird blue EPL-specific workshop again (like before the EPL-USI integration happened) - note that the "use MKS resources for EPL" does still work, so at least there's that.
3.  Cancelling a build caused my orbital construction yard to instantly disintegrate and send the one remaining part spinning off into deep space at high speed.  F3 menu said that one of the parts "splashed down" (this was instantaneous, from a 500km orbit).  When I pushed cancel, the windows 'wait' cursor appeared for about 5 seconds, and then the catastrophic disintegration.

I haven't actually built anything to completion yet, however.  That may or may not work.

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Hi,

Great mod! I love it for constructing planetary bases, but I'm a bit confused about how the whole recycling thing works.

I've got an orbital workshop with recyclers and containers for metal and rocket parts. I've changed the EL_RecycleRecipe from ScrapMetal back to Metal in the config file. When I launch a supply rocket up to it I'm able to "dock" the rocket with an active recycler and the fuel and monopropellant transfers, but I get 34.73 metal out of the whole thing, which converts to about 379 rocket parts, or about enough to build something very small.

In the VAB, the part of the resupply ship that gets to my orbital workshop has a dry mass of 13.55 t and is listed as requiring 5.418ku of rocket parts. I understand that there are losses, in particular 30% loss when converting from metal to rocket parts, and if I'm reading the recipe config correctly a 10% loss when converting rocket parts to metal, but my overall losses here are 93%.

Three questions:

1. Is it "working as intended" to recycle a 13.55 t rocket (which requires 5418 rocket parts to build dry) and obtain 34.73 units of Metal which converts to less than 400 rocket parts?

2. Can this be adjusted in the Recipies.cfg file to something which conserves mass with a smaller loss, like say 10% when converting rocket parts to metal for an overall loss of 37% (1 - 1*0.9*0.7)?

3. If the answer to (2) is yes, can or should this be done in the EL_RecycleRecipe block? It's not really obvious to me how to interpret the numbers in that block other than there's a 9:1 ratio of metal to loss. I think that may be where I'm misunderstanding the process, so I'm really looking for guidance or insight on how to adjust these numbers so that a rocket requiring 100 rocket parts produces 90 metal or something like that.

EL_RecycleRecipe {
    name = RocketParts
    Resources {
        Metal = 9
        loss = 1
    }

}

If I had to guess, I'd say production of rocket parts from metal is working fine, but the recycler is producing one order of magnitude less metal from rocket parts than it should be. If I were getting 347.3 units of metal, that would result in 3790 rocket parts, which corresponds to 69.95% efficiency, or 30% loss which sounds more or less about right.

Thanks!

Edited by schlosrat
Edited to correct some numbers and add speculation for what might be wrong
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12 hours ago, ss8913 said:

It seems to mostly work in 1.4.3, with the following exceptions:

...

I haven't actually built anything to completion yet, however.  That may or may not work.

I’ve built a few things in 1.4.3 using the stock EPL parts for construction. So far no spontaneous disintegration, but I’ve not tried canceling a build.

all my builds have used the orbital dock or a micropad

Edited by schlosrat
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13 hours ago, ss8913 said:

1.  The UKS Orbital Shipyard, which looks really cool,  and I've loved using it in the past, no longer seems to register as an EPL construction part.
2.  USI MKS workshops no longer contribute to productivity; have to use the weird blue EPL-specific workshop again (like before the EPL-USI integration happened) - note that the "use MKS resources for EPL" does still work, so at least there's that.

USI has not shipped an update since EL's breaking change - it's patches are out of date.  There is a PR to fix this, which will be shipped in the next USI update.

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4 hours ago, DStaal said:

USI has not shipped an update since EL's breaking change - it's patches are out of date.  There is a PR to fix this, which will be shipped in the next USI update.

I can live with that.  As I said, it *does* still honor the "use MKS resources for construction" and that's the main integration point.

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21 hours ago, schlosrat said:

1. Is it "working as intended" to recycle a 13.55 t rocket (which requires 5418 rocket parts to build dry) and obtain 34.73 units of Metal which converts to less than 400 rocket parts? 

No, this should be 312.7u of Metal. It's possible the changes for 6.0.0 broke the recycler, probably something in the handling of non-existent resources (here, loss). I'll check the code.

21 hours ago, schlosrat said:

2. Can this be adjusted in the Recipies.cfg file to something which conserves mass with a smaller loss, like say 10% when converting rocket parts to metal for an overall loss of 37% (1 - 1*0.9*0.7)? 

As mentioned just above, I think something has gone wrong internally. The recipe you show is correct.

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@schlosrat: I'm sorry, but I am unable to reproduce the problem. I tested using a single X200-16 tank and it gave me 225u of ScrapMetal, or 23.08u of Metal (depending on the recipe). Both numbers work out to 900kg as expected for 10% loss from a 1t tank.

Might you have had a Metal->RocketParts converter running? (though consuming that much metal that quickly...)

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1 hour ago, taniwha said:

@schlosrat: I'm sorry, but I am unable to reproduce the problem. I tested using a single X200-16 tank and it gave me 225u of ScrapMetal, or 23.08u of Metal (depending on the recipe). Both numbers work out to 900kg as expected for 10% loss from a 1t tank.

Might you have had a Metal->RocketParts converter running? (though consuming that much metal that quickly...)

Thanks for looking into this so quickly.

I did a ground test on the pad converting an empty 1t X200-16 tank and I got 2.56 u metal. My test contraption consisted of the recycler, a large metal hexcan, and a little bit of structure to hold the tank by a docking port over the recycler. There was no part or kerbal in the system capable of producing rocket parts.

That being said, I do run with quite a few mods, so perhaps there is a conflict with one of them. I'll see if I can eliminate the problem with a clean install, and if I can I'll try to see if I can find out which mod is causing the problem. Are there any known mods that have caused problems before? That might shorten my search.

UPDATE: It does appear to be a conflict with another mod. Running 1.4.3 with only Squad, Squad Expansion, EL. and Module Manager 3.0.6 I too get 23.08. If I figure out which mod is causing the conflict I'll let you know.

Thanks

Edited by schlosrat
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9 hours ago, taniwha said:

@schlosrat: ok. I guess the thing to do is double check the density of the Metal resource, and make sure there is only one definition. I guess also make sure there is only the one EL_RecycleRecipe for RocketParts.

I have found the culprit! It was KeridianDynamics. Without that mod, but keeping all the many many others I have, everything works fine. I have no idea what it might be doing to me - I thought it was mostly a parts pack and supposed to be compatible with EL.

I will proceed without it, fortunately I have a recent save where my orbital workshop doesn't have any of those parts attached yet so it still loads.

I was mainly using that mod for some containers that are conveniently shaped and will hold rocket parts, etc. Is there a good alternative?

Thanks!

Edited by schlosrat
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13 hours ago, schlosrat said:

I have found the culprit! It was KeridianDynamics. Without that mod, but keeping all the many many others I have, everything works fine. I have no idea what it might be doing to me - I thought it was mostly a parts pack and supposed to be compatible with EL.

Hmm... are any of the parts procedural (with dynamic mass in particular)?

If so, it might be that KD is altering the part's mass after EL checks it.

[edit] Er, except, I'm pretty sure that would be only for building, not recycling.

Edited by taniwha
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1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Hmm... are any of the parts procedural (with dynamic mass in particular)?

If so, it might be that KD is altering the part's mass after EL checks it.

[edit] Er, except, I'm pretty sure that would be only for building, not recycling.

I don’t think there were any procedural parts in what I was recycling. Certainly not the stock 1t fuel tank.

thanks

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It should be fine in 1.4.3. I certainly haven't heard any complaints. I've just been rather busy and thus not gotten around to updating EL for 1.4.3 (have some bugs to fix, too).

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16 hours ago, taniwha said:

It should be fine in 1.4.3. I certainly haven't heard any complaints. I've just been rather busy and thus not gotten around to updating EL for 1.4.3 (have some bugs to fix, too).

Just wondering. Is there a way to disable the message that EPL is incompatible with 1.4.3 on startup? Not a mayor issue or anything, but something I would like to do if it is possible.

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Hey, just installed this mod and loving it so far, however, I'm having two issues, one with the launchpad from "Kerbal Planetary Base Systems" not being recognized as a launchsite (I asked for help in forum post from that as well, since I suspect it's that mod that's being funky) and an issue with cancelling builds. Whenever I try to cancel a build the craft is being sent into an escape trajectory out of the sun... now I love FTL travel as much as the next person but I prefer to use engines for that, not cancelling builds :P Is there a way to fix this? I'm playing 1.4.2 btw

Also, if I change the craft in the VAB while it's being contstructed off world, will the ship be updated to the latest design upon completion?

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