[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[magnemoe]

In the map view kethane window, did you select the ore resource? You can switch between the displayed resources with the small arrows. This is because Kethane can't display multiple resources at the same time.

Also note that the normal kethane scanners don't detect ore, you need to use the scanners provided by EPL (or do some config editting).

Also note that the small scanners for ore have short range, less than 80 kilometers at least so you need the large one to detect ore on Kerbin, Eve or Laythe.

[AntiMatter001]

Also note that the small scanners for ore have short range, less than 80 kilometers at least so you need the large one to detect ore on Kerbin, Eve or Laythe.

while we're on the topic uhm why is the big ore scaner so.... big?

[Superfluous J]

Also note that the small scanners for ore have short range, less than 80 kilometers at least so you need the large one to detect ore on Kerbin, Eve or Laythe.

Why would you mine ore on Kerbin when Minmus and Mun are nearby? And why would you mine it on Laythe when Pol and Bop are so close? And why would you do it on Eve when... well... ever?

while we're on the topic uhm why is the big ore scaner so.... big?

Making the parts hard to use encourages us to learn modding to convert Kethane scanners in to Ore scanners. If enough people do that, then one or two of them may go on to make their own mods, enriching the KSP modding community.

At least, that's my guess. Because you're surely not intended to USE that scanner.

[taniwha]

Because of the way it works: two heavy (and thus large) masses are set a certain distance apart in the orbit. Changes in their relative distance are correlated with the changes expected from the orbit and the result is used to measure the non-uniformity of the gravitational field, and thus variations in the body's density.

[taniwha]

Why would you mine ore on Kerbin when Minmus and Mun are nearby? And why would you mine it on Laythe when Pol and Bop are so close? And why would you do it on Eve when... well... ever?

Kerbin: because you want to play in hard mode and not have ore, metal or parts available from KSC and you want to build your miner on-site rather than fly it. I've actually done this, and had to drive over 500km to the nearest ore deposit. That was a rather fun week . I'm glad I wasn't using RSS: it would have been 5000km .

Lathe: easier to mine resource locally than to land them.

Eve: the ultimate Eve return mission.

Making the parts hard to use encourages us to learn modding to convert Kethane scanners in to Ore scanners. If enough people do that, then one or two of them may go on to make their own mods, enriching the KSP modding community.

At least, that's my guess. Because you're surely not intended to USE that scanner.

やれやれ

It's big for physical reasons (see above post). EL's parts are not arbitrarily big. They are, actually, often far too small. eg, the smelter is orders of magnitude too small for its production rate, and takes nowhere near enough power.

[Superfluous J]

やれやれ

It's big for physical reasons (see above post). EL's parts are not arbitrarily big. They are, actually, often far too small. eg, the smelter is orders of magnitude too small for its production rate, and takes nowhere near enough power.

I'm sorry (no seriously I am). I was having some fun at your (well, your mod's) expense. However I never said they were arbitrarily large, just too large for what many people consider fun. Others (you, for instance) do find it fun. I personally would not want to mine or on Kerbin ever. That doesn't sound like hard mode and instead sounds more like a job. I can see the fun in landing on Eve and building your return vehicle there, that does sound fun. I was considering the idea of mining there with the intent of using the materials for something other than an escape vehicle, which does NOT sound fun

I personally have no problem using a more moderately sized scanner to find ore, and more moderately sized drills to drill it and a more moderately sized furnace to refine it. I don't have as much time to play KSP as I'd like. I put up about 2 hours of YouTube videos a week and that's well over half the time I spend in the game in that week. If I want to get anything done it's gotta be a bit less hardcore, or I won't get out of Kerbin's SOI before KSP hits Beta.

[Andon]

I agree with fun over realism. While realism is fun for some people, it should be an option.

[taniwha]

First, the Japanese is just "good grief". I did sense a tongue planted in a cheek . While you yourself haven't said that EL's parts are arbitrarily large, others have, and I thought I'd take the opportunity to point out that they're actually arbitrarily small

Before heading out, I was actually dreading the drive, but it turned out to be fairly fun. But then again, I did grww up in the back of a car and "are we there yet" was not part of my (or my brothers') vocabulary (for long, anyway), and I got quite good at reading maps. Anyway, after that drive, I better appreciate rockets .

A new scanner is in the works, but I don't know when it will be available (I'm not the one making it). TBH, I think the orbital mass detector is inappropriate for EL in its current state (I believe it's best for finding deeper deposits), though I do have some ideas to make it more useful, but that's for much later. The scanner that's on the way is optical (IR) and will be better suited for surface scans.

[Andon]

OK, so, my last post was made from my phone while on break at work so I didn't get a chance to REALLY look things over. I'll give some more thoughts:

First, as far as scanners go. I don't mind a 2.5m scanner, so long as it is WORTH 2.5m. For Kethane, we have a radial and 1.25m scanner. For EL, we have the radial tiny thing and the monster 2.5m scanner. I think having something inbetween would go well. Additionally, I think the basic scanner should be usable from LKO - Maybe put it up to an 80-85km max range. It's still a lot tighter than the Kethane scanner, but it's a lot easier to use.

Second, for the two parts that are the most "problematic" - The Smelter and (In my opinion at least) the rocket parts factory. I think it's less of an issue of size as it is of usability. The smelter is big and ugly and, more importantly, it's a hex. Hexes are hard to work with when you're doing radial things. Four landing legs ends up with two of them "hovering" over the side. This makes them somewhat difficult to build around. I think a "Less is more" approach here is also better - While there's two sizes, I don't think two sizes are entirely needed. If you want more capacity, use two. Even more, use three. It's the standard way things are used in KSP. For the rocket parts factory, it's a bit of the same thing as the smelter. Yes, it looks a hell of a lot better than some of the other parts that EL has, but it's also hard to build around.

Another issue I have with EL is the seemingly absurd amount of steps I need to do to make a rocket. I need to mine ore. I need to smelt ore into metal. I neat to assemble metal into rocket parts. THEN I can build the rocket with said rocket parts. While I'm not against those steps, I would like to see more done with that. Do more things with ore, maybe. Do more things with metal. At the moment I'm not sure what, but it's very linear and strikes me as overly complex for what it does. I don't think you'd end up with a lot of people complaining if you made a smelter/factory combination machine that ate Ore and spat out Rocket Parts.

The last thing I'd like to touch on is mostly nitpicking. The quantities of items in the new Red/White/Blue cans are all identical, while in the same sized HexCans and green cans, they're not. Is this intended, or was this just a copy-past-rename item mistake? If I'm remembering correctly, the HexCans all stored the same mass of items, but as they're different densities, the amount varied.

[Daisai]

There seems to be a bug with this mod, ones you have build a ship in orbit and switch to it through the spacecenter ( because you can't select it directly through the map which is another bug ) some parts just disappear.

These parts were on the ship ones it was spawned at the space station.

[taniwha]

The last thing I'd like to touch on is mostly nitpicking. The quantities of items in the new Red/White/Blue cans are all identical, while in the same sized HexCans and green cans, they're not. Is this intended, or was this just a copy-past-rename item mistake? If I'm remembering correctly, the HexCans all stored the same mass of items, but as they're different densities, the amount varied.

You will find that the same size hexcans all hold the same numeric quantities of resource as well. They may well have been different back before EL's resource overhaul (sometime around v3.0). Anyway, I've just checked and other than the green bins, everything is as intended. The green metal and ore bins are incorrect (they're the same size, they should hold the same amount).

[impwarhamer]

Second, for the two parts that are the most "problematic" - The Smelter and (In my opinion at least) the rocket parts factory. I think it's less of an issue of size as it is of usability. The smelter is big and ugly and, more importantly, it's a hex. Hexes are hard to work with when you're doing radial things. Four landing legs ends up with two of them "hovering" over the side. This makes them somewhat difficult to build around. I think a "Less is more" approach here is also better - While there's two sizes, I don't think two sizes are entirely needed. If you want more capacity, use two. Even more, use three. It's the standard way things are used in KSP. For the rocket parts factory, it's a bit of the same thing as the smelter. Yes, it looks a hell of a lot better than some of the other parts that EL has, but it's also hard to build around.

I think everyone who as ever even glimpsed EL (including taniwha) knows about the models problem, and it will get fixed at some point, but for the moment i think taniwha's main concern is getting everything working properly and trying to iron out some of the bugs. If you want better parts for now I would recommend getting BahamutoD's parts.

also, for the third time does anyone know what happened to Aeon-phoenix's smelter

looked like this: http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/Aeon_Voom/2013-12-29_00001.jpg

[Andon]

So you're right with the hex cans. I rarely used them anyway, so I may have just been imagining that.

EDIT: While essentially I was complaining about the models, I really don't care WHAT the models look like. A really fancy looking smelter is all well and good, but if it's ungainly and hard to use as the current one then it doesn't help much.

[taniwha]

also, for the third time does anyone know what happened to Aeon-phoenix's smelter

looked like this: http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/Aeon_Voom/2013-12-29_00001.jpg

Sorry, I didn't notice your previous queries. I have his smelter in git, but I was having trouble deciding on the balancing of it. Last I heard (yesterday morning) Triffid_Hunter was poking at its config file. I imagine I'll get a pull request sometime soon.

[Andon]

I have his smelter in git

And his launchpad too, I see. Yoink. I'll see if I can work out something satisfactory with them. No promises on time, though.

Also, any reason you're not using these parts?

[kellven]

Finally trying this out (figure it might be relatively stable by now), few big problems I've run into so far:

1. Releasing from orbital construction dock bugs everything, have to switch via tracking station.

2. Smelter failing to attach properly when stacked below probe core, only works above. Seems to be old issue, causes massive headaches trying to build a top heavy lander around it.

3. Rocket part assembly "pod" is just hugely cumbersome to work around, had to build a 6X6 patio on top of a lander, then a wall with a ladder to the ground. Brings back the plywood flyer nostalgia, but might want to consider a cylinder with a door, and proper stack nodes for usability.

4. Biggest problem is the runway and launch pads. I simply cannot get these things to work in any reliable way, or get any repeatable handle on what the bugs are. Do they need a cmd pod? Why do they not have one integrated(about to mod this in to test)? Is it MechJeb causing them to vanish, or is it something else? Do I need debris enabled for them to persist? I figured out they have to be above the pod, but what are the other two nodes doing? How am I supposed to get the runway off the lander and onto the ground exactly?

Don't get me wrong, nice models are nice; but it seems to me there needs to be some serious refocusing on making things reasonable to use, before making cool looking stuff.

Still attempting to figure out how to properly set up the runway/lp. I'll get it eventually, or not.

[taniwha]

kellven: Actually, before models comes function. If I have to, I will weld a few stock parts together, or even just reconfigure a stock part, so I can concentrate on function. I have done such, though the result was never released. That said, I'm currently working on a new part, though the textures will be rather unexciting.

[Patupi]

Just had a thought for the large ore scanner. Is it possible to randomly generate 'scans' on hexes on Kethane's plugin rather than scan the point under the scanner on the surface? If so have the scanner do so, at a speed that goes down the further from an 'ideal orbit altitude' it is. That way it's never going to scan the whole planet (random scans will eventually be scanning the same places again and again, slowly filling in the few last gaps in the map) but you won't have to do a polar orbit etc.

[little square dot]

This is probably a dumb question, but I've fallen out of the loop somewhat.

Did this mod more or less absorb the Orbital Construction Redux mod?

[docfish]

I see some people successfully using the recycling bin, and from the sounds of it with even bigger ships than I. However when I bring another ship in to bump the recycle bin, ships just bounce off each other. I've tried with the recycler as the active vessel and with it not as the active vessel. I put box struts on one to make sure that it had a small enough front end to fit into the recycler and not just impact on the surface around it. I've got empty space but it is possible I don't actually have enough empty space to recycle it, but from skimming the source it looks like excess material is just discarded. It really seems more likely I'm just Doing It Wrong but as far as mods I've got newest kethane, interstellar, b9 and a half a dozen smaller ones. What do you think Sirs?

[trbinsc]

You have to right click on the bin and activate it first.

[docfish]

You know I think I right clicked it in the VAB, checked it for options for an action group but I don't honestly remember if just right clicked it while flying >.< Well I'm not in front of my computer to confirm that fixes it but yay for the little fixes!

[curiousepic]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but is there a way to restrict which parts can be built by a 3D printer or used in a craft built on-site?

[Superfluous J]

I had an idea while working out the logistics of recycling parts of my Gilly lander after it's gotten down on the surface. My plan involved building a chair and monoprop tank out of a couple rocketparts and then attaching them, along with a couple rcs thruster blocks that I won't need from the lander any more to the detached part. Then I could fly it up, land it in the recycle bin, hop out, turn the bin on and be done with the stuff.

The only problem (well, annoyance really) with this plan is I need to "build" a craft in the VAB that is just a chair. And then I need to "build" another craft that is just the rcs fuel tank. Seems kind of dumb to do that, so here's my thought:

Would it be possible to integrate this with KAS in some way, that you can, in addition to going to the VAB/SPH/Subassemblies, go to "Grabbable Parts" so you can just build one of those?

[Neowulf]

I had an idea while working out the logistics of recycling parts of my Gilly lander after it's gotten down on the surface. My plan involved building a chair and monoprop tank out of a couple rocketparts and then attaching them, along with a couple rcs thruster blocks that I won't need from the lander any more to the detached part. Then I could fly it up, land it in the recycle bin, hop out, turn the bin on and be done with the stuff.

The only problem (well, annoyance really) with this plan is I need to "build" a craft in the VAB that is just a chair. And then I need to "build" another craft that is just the rcs fuel tank. Seems kind of dumb to do that, so here's my thought:

Would it be possible to integrate this with KAS in some way, that you can, in addition to going to the VAB/SPH/Subassemblies, go to "Grabbable Parts" so you can just build one of those?

I was thinking a special KAS container that had a way to spawn/recycle grabbable/storable parts in its inventory. A parts bin.