[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[VaporTrail]

Not big issues, but one is kinda jarring.

In the tech tree, I'm seeing the Augers each listed as "Kethane Extractor" with an 'Ore Rate' in L/s. I'm fairly certain this is legacy code from the part's Kethane origin, but measuring ore in L/s just seems odd. The Kethane Extractor bit is confusing, but only if you don't know exactly what the differences between the Augers and Drills are.

Like i said, minor. Need to be put on a list for clean up, if possible, though.

[BrutalRIP]

just wondered if its would at all be possible to integrate the launchpads with kerbtown?? just an idea

[taniwha]

VaporTrail: It is not legacy code, and the part does not originate from Kethane: it is a KethaneExtractor. KSP is just taking the module name and inserting a space.

BrutalRIP: an idea in which I am not particularly interested. I do, however, have related ideas of using some concepts from KerbTown in EL.

[MrFreake]

Hey, I'm having a problem getting EL running. It may be that I am stupid. but lets cover the bases first:

All the files are in my ksp/Gamedata/EL folder.

EL from post 1 of this thread, downloaded today.

My KSP is up to date. My kethane is 0.8.4. KAS 0.4.6.

KMP 0.1.5.1

Apart from a few added parts, these are the only mods I am running.

My problem is this:

I am building a ship, with a launchpad, fuel, crewed capsule, powered, and rocketparts, and flying it to orbit

(or trying from KSC), I can open/close the pad, select the ship I want to build, pause and resume building, but the

progress bar doesn't move. I also don't seem to be getting an option to see the production values

I've read about (from Kerbals courage/stupidity). Just to be clear, I did download the version of EL

that's on this thread, at the very beginning, today.

I know there must be something blatantly obvious I'm missing. I just don't know what it is. Could somebody help

me please? I'm very excited to get this thing working, but after two days of fiddling with it, my frustration level

is building.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I'm an idiot. I didn't have ModuleManager installed. I also didn't realize without it a workshop was required for

more than just converting metal into SpaceshipParts. Thanks to those who responded. I'm dumb.

Edited April 1, 2014 by MrFreake

[Logris]

Have you got ModuleManager installed?

This is needed to turn the stock capsules into workshops.

[taniwha]

MrFreake: As stated by Logris and the front page (right above the Kethane link), Module Manager is required for pods (not for the workshop proper, though).

[taniwha]

EL 4.0.3 is not compatible with ARM. I have a few things to do this morning before I can do a release, and I'll see if I can get some more bug fixes in before release, too.

[taniwha]

I have released Extraplanetary Launchapds version 4.1. As always, under the GPL. Links are in the first post.

Changes from 4.0.3:

• Stored resources on a recycled vessel are no longer doubled.
  
• The workshop has had an external makeover thanks to RandomJeb. Still the same color scheme, but it looks much nicer.
  
• KSP 0.23.5 (ARM) compatible (minor API change that removed an ugly hack from EL).
  
• Recycling bins will not recycle asteroids.
  
• Mass is properly conserved while building a ship.
  
• The welded hexcans should now show up in the tech tree.
  
• EL now waits for user input before spawning the built craft.
  

Asteroid mining is not yet supported, but I am working on it.

Edited April 2, 2014 by taniwha

[KvickFlygarn87]

A suggestion for asteroid mining: Have all asteroids contain Ore to some extent and only allow (very slow) transfer when you have a certain part.

[merendel]

A suggestion for asteroid mining: Have all asteroids contain Ore to some extent and only allow (very slow) transfer when you have a certain part.

I dont think theres a way to limit you from moveing a resorce around the ship short of giving it the NoPump flag which probably wouldnt allow for a part to pump it either. He would probably have to add an extra resource, aka AsteroidOre, that is set to nopump or just has no tanks for you to transfer it into. AsteroidOre could then be run through a basic kethane converter module on the attached ship that would transform it into standard ore. the module for that could even just be put on the basic auger and balanced to the same conversion rate as the extraction rate.

[magnemoe]

I dont think theres a way to limit you from moveing a resorce around the ship short of giving it the NoPump flag which probably wouldnt allow for a part to pump it either. He would probably have to add an extra resource, aka AsteroidOre, that is set to nopump or just has no tanks for you to transfer it into. AsteroidOre could then be run through a basic kethane converter module on the attached ship that would transform it into standard ore. the module for that could even just be put on the basic auger and balanced to the same conversion rate as the extraction rate.

My thought too, make asteroid ore an resource who has to be converted. Only downside would be that the auger dont had to connect to the asteroid too convert.

[merendel]

My thought too, make asteroid ore an resource who has to be converted. Only downside would be that the auger dont had to connect to the asteroid too convert.

On the upshot the mass of the asteroid would decrease as you mined it out in a moderatly realistic manner. I'm still wondering what majiir is going to do with kethan since he's indicated he does not want to turn asteroids into flying kethane tanks and wants to require a drill. Its going to be silly capturing a 1000 ton asteroid and mining 500 tons of material out of it and still haveing a 1000 ton asteroid.

[taniwha]

Don't worry, the mass will change, since my plans include making the asteroid mass depend on the resources.

[Revencher]

I installed the latest vertion and it keeps crashing on load at HexCanRocketPartsSmall. I have looked but cant find a fix. I am extremely dyslexic and may have missed the answer. can any 1 plz help me fix this?

[ExplorerKlatt]

Would it be possible to get the pre ARM version. I am using a separate install to play mods before integrating them into my primary game.

[VaporTrail]

Had a thought while writing a bit of theorycraft in another thread, and remembered that someone had mentioned that asteroids are basically treated as vessels.

Here it is: "What happens if you hit an asteroid with an active recycling bin?"

Anyone want to test that little gem?

[PringleMan]

Had a thought while writing a bit of theorycraft in another thread, and remembered that someone had mentioned that asteroids are basically treated as vessels.

Here it is: "What happens if you hit an asteroid with an active recycling bin?"

Anyone want to test that little gem?

I have released Extraplanetary Launchapds version 4.1. As always, under the GPL. Links are in the first post.

Changes from 4.0.3:

• Stored resources on a recycled vessel are no longer doubled.
  
• The workshop has had an external makeover thanks to RandomJeb. Still the same color scheme, but it looks much nicer.
  
• KSP 0.23.5 (ARM) compatible (minor API change that removed an ugly hack from EL).
  
• Recycling bins will not recycle asteroids.
  
• Mass is properly conserved while building a ship.
  
• The welded hexcans should now show up in the tech tree.
  
• EL now waits for user input before spawning the built craft.
  

10characters

[Ralathon]

Had a thought while writing a bit of theorycraft in another thread, and remembered that someone had mentioned that asteroids are basically treated as vessels.

Here it is: "What happens if you hit an asteroid with an active recycling bin?"

Anyone want to test that little gem?

Changelog for 4.1:

• Recycling bins will not recycle asteroids.
  

So nothing will happen.

[VaporTrail]

Yeesh... Well... guess someone else had the same thought.

Still bouncing around the forum trying to catch all the mod updates so haven't read as much as I should...

[VaporTrail]

Here's an idea for asteroid mining.

On creation of an asteroid (or on mod-add) query the asteroid's mass. Some (random?) fraction of said mass (40-60% top end? probably much less...) is assigned as "mineable asteroid ore" (possibilities of different material end products...) and is assigned as a new variable to the 'roid's file.

Add new code to the augers (or build a new mining tech strictly for asteroids) that allows extraction of asteroid ore from said asteroid. As "mineable asteroid ore" depletes, mass of asteroid is updated to reflect depletion. Once "mineable asteroid ore" is gone, the asteroid is basically a junk rock and can be disposed of.

This basically handles the "what happens when the asteroid is used up" question, by saying you can't completely use an asteroid (which might not be entirely true real world... but, gameplay). It allows mining of an asteroid.

Kethane might use a similar method, however I'd think that the percentage of Kethane in any given space-rock is probably going to be pretty low. That said, a comet-like body would probably be higher in kethane, but much lower in ore.

From what I've read though, the masses of asteroids seem to be in the hundreds of tons range... which aren't going to be very worthwhile as mining goes.

[edit]Wow... perhaps I should read a bit more, and skim a bit less. Looks like that's the plan.

Edited April 2, 2014 by VaporTrail

[Revencher]

can any 1 plz help me?

I installed the latest vertion and it keeps crashing on load at HexCanRocketPartsSmall. I have looked but cant find a fix. I am extremely dyslexic and may have missed the answer. can any 1 plz help me fix this?

[bonesbro]

can any 1 plz help me?

Do you have lots of mods installed? One of the most common reasons for crashes when loading is that you run out of memory. KSP isn't 64-bit yet so it can only use a couple of gigs.

[Roandask]

I've set up a launch pad 2 on the Mun, but it seems to frequently disappear. Looking at the log, it says that it crashed into the terrain of the Mun (specifically: "Vessel Selene crashed through terrain on the Mun"). It happens in both open and closed states (more frequently, I think, when opened), and happens when it is put on rails (ex going to the space center). I've tried 2-3 locations on the Mun, though I haven't tried, for example, landing on Minmus' perfectly flat lakes.

[kellven]

Roandask, that happens because the game doesn't handle ground collision well. Harv never told the physics sim there was a stable state for immobile "ship" objects on the ground; so together with the craptastic ground collision code, "landed" objects are continuously popping in and out of a "sub-orbital trajectory", which causes their immediate destruction when you move out of physics range.

Stuff on wheels is slightly safer(or not), and the landing legs are usually ok, as their suspension code helps nullify the constant jitter induced by the ground collision mess. The problem is that the runway especially just doesn't make any sense if it's propped up on blocks, especially as they're all transformers and you can't properly stick blocks where you need them; which is why I gave up on any surface construction, orbital construction doesn't have the problem.

The good news:

BrutalRIP: an idea in which I am not particularly interested. I do, however, have related ideas of using some concepts from KerbTown in EL.

If that means what I'm hoping it means, taniwha is thinking of giving us some sort of actual stationary surface construction option. The launchpad, etc at KSC are not exactly part of the planet, but they do have the the immobility and persistence you'd expect of things like the runway and lp parts, I really don't know exactly how the code treats them, but that's the behavior you want.

In the mean time, I highly suggest either sticking legs between the ground and anything you don't want destroyed, or simply keep all permanent objects safely in orbit.

[taniwha]

Here's an idea for asteroid mining.

[stuff I've already thought of]

Here's another thought: ideas are a dime a dozen, but you have to give me the dime for taking your ideas (note, this is not to say that you won't ever come up with something new, only that it will be a very rare occurrence).

Roandask, that happens because the game doesn't handle ground collision well. Harv never told the physics sim there was a stable state for immobile "ship" objects on the ground; so together with the craptastic ground collision code, "landed" objects are continuously popping in and out of a "sub-orbital trajectory", which causes their immediate destruction when you move out of physics range.

Stuff on wheels is slightly safer(or not), and the landing legs are usually ok, as their suspension code helps nullify the constant jitter induced by the ground collision mess. The problem is that the runway especially just doesn't make any sense if it's propped up on blocks, especially as they're all transformers and you can't properly stick blocks where you need them; which is why I gave up on any surface construction, orbital construction doesn't have the problem.

Sadly, there is nothing I can do about this directly, but...

If that means what I'm hoping it means, taniwha is thinking of giving us some sort of actual stationary surface construction option. The launchpad, etc at KSC are not exactly part of the planet, but they do have the the immobility and persistence you'd expect of things like the runway and lp parts, I really don't know exactly how the code treats them, but that's the behavior you want.

It does indeed mean what you hope it means. Code wise, this is not very difficult (though possibly a little tedious). The problem is working it into the game-play (VaporTrail: here's an opportunity for you as I have been too busy to put much thought into it ).

One important thing I want to do is to add the ability to "build" a leveled section of ground (procedural mesh). I'm sure most of you will appreciate that . Problem is: how to make it interesting?

Converting structural "craft" to static objects is something else I'd like to do, but this time the problem is the UI (I think game-play is irrelevant for this as you have already somehow got the structures in place via some other means). This should help with frame rates on large bases.