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[1.8-1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.1


taniwha
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@Barcel: While it may be confusing to anybody coming from a Z-up world (myself included), EL uses KSP's (and Unity's) coordinate system where Y is up and Z is forward (or north for the KSC launchpad). This works for both VAB builds and SPH builds (for the SPH, Z is along the runway). Unless you know exactly what you are doing, I highly recommend not using +Y bounds stakes as they define the TOP of your build. You will, however, likely make heavy use of -Y bounds stakes for defining the bottom.

When using + and - bounds stakes (same axis) together, their midpoint defines the midpoint of the build (another reason for avoiding +Y).

+Y bounds is there mostly for completeness (and ease of coding), but does allow some extra control in tricky situations. However, even in my craziest test (building something rotated on the side of the VAB), I have yet to use it myself.

Also, the EL manual (latest revision, which I recommend as the one in the zip is rather old now) goes to some efforts to explain stake usage.

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Im prety sure, this was anserd before but i cant find it. maybe not.

 

I have a larger spacedock in orbit around minmus, with science bays & n stuff also two EL pads, and two engineers (lvl1 currently i guess) i have enought metal, scrap metal, ore and other stuff, a melkter, workshop( both engineers assigend to it) enouth rocket parts etc. however, i cant build anything. the productivity of the workshop is negative, same on the cupola. is there a known bug/ issue with other mods? (I have quite a few of em)

 

it was also strange that the teardown was working and now ticks into the negative. should i try to reinstall the el mod? or can i fiddel around in the savegame to increase the productivity? do not want to loose (again) this savegame :)  thanks for the help :)

Edited by PudelDesTodes
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The part consumption is not correct when handling tweak scaled part (mostly KSPI parts for me). A patch may be needed.

3 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

The part consumption is not correct when handling tweak scaled part (mostly KSPI parts for me). A patch may be needed.

For example, A 2.5m(default) reactor needs 3240 units parts, a 0.625m reactor needs 140 units. (according to build resource  in VAB).

When I actually make it in a workshop, A 0.625m reactor needs 3240 units rocket parts......

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This is because TweakScale does its scaling too late for EL to be able to get the correct mass before EL must destroy the temporarily loaded vessel. Or at least, that was the case when I looked into it a while back.

For EL to be able to work with a mod that adjusts part mass, the adjustment needs to be done in either OnLoad or OnStart.

However, I do need to make EL use the mass modifier now that it works.

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4 minutes ago, taniwha said:

This is because TweakScale does its scaling too late for EL to be able to get the correct mass before EL must destroy the temporarily loaded vessel. Or at least, that was the case when I looked into it a while back.

For EL to be able to work with a mod that adjusts part mass, the adjustment needs to be done in either OnLoad or OnStart.

However, I do need to make EL use the mass modifier now that it works.

If so that would be nice, I just waste my 22000 parts in a Lunar base to make a tweak scaled small KSPI drone:0.0:

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On 4.2.2017 at 11:35 AM, PudelDesTodes said:

Im prety sure, this was anserd before but i cant find it. maybe not.

 

I have a larger spacedock in orbit around minmus, with science bays & n stuff also two EL pads, and two engineers (lvl1 currently i guess) i have enought metal, scrap metal, ore and other stuff, a melkter, workshop( both engineers assigend to it) enouth rocket parts etc. however, i cant build anything. the productivity of the workshop is negative, same on the cupola. is there a known bug/ issue with other mods? (I have quite a few of em)

 

it was also strange that the teardown was working and now ticks into the negative. should i try to reinstall the el mod? or can i fiddel around in the savegame to increase the productivity? do not want to loose (again) this savegame :)  thanks for the help :)

ok..did a test with a fresh save. seems like all is working fine. evaced the engs (still getting negative productivity) and was able to finalize the stuck build. ill try a crew rotation to fix the negative prdouctivity issue. any idea what can cause this?

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hey, i have some strange behaviour with EL 5.6.0 Stock + Toolbar + EL

setting EL to use blizzys toolbar - going to main menu - stock toolbar with EL button appears... load save again EL button on both, Toolbar and App-Launcher.

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I have been building my MKS base using EL, but I just went to add another piece and now I can't find the survey stake?  You can see in this screenshot it is telling me there are no sites found in the UI, but there is clearly a stake right next to my EL build location?  Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

 

vVo3whH2L.png

Edit: I just did a test on the launch pad and I am getting the site found there.  Should I try to scrap my two EL modules in my base and fly a new EL module over?

Edited by Liquid5n0w
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I suspect your base is rather large and thus its CoM is quite far from the stake (EL uses the vessel location rather than the survey station location). The range of a survey station is 20m for no crew, 50m for a random kerbal, and 100+m for a surveyor (usually pilot, level increases range).

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11 hours ago, taniwha said:

I suspect your base is rather large and thus its CoM is quite far from the stake (EL uses the vessel location rather than the survey station location). The range of a survey station is 20m for no crew, 50m for a random kerbal, and 100+m for a surveyor (usually pilot, level increases range).

Well, I had two stations, neither with crew, but I had put the stake right next to the MKS Pioneer module and it still wasn't finding the stake.  Does it use the average of the two locations to measure the distance to the origin stake?

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1 minute ago, Liquid5n0w said:

Well, I had two stations, neither with crew, but I had put the stake right next to the MKS Pioneer module and it still wasn't finding the stake.  Does it use the average of the two locations to measure the distance to the origin stake?

It's the center of the vessel, not the center of the survey module - I can't tell if there are connections on the other side of Pioneer module, but if there are, it's definitely going to be to far away.  Even without, you're pretty close to 10m from the center of that ship: I'm assuming the Kontainer at the top is full of MaterialKits, which will bring the CoM up, and I can't tell if there's anything above that.

Put a Pilot in the Pioneer module.  That'll probably fix it.  Even putting that Kerbal you have on EVA in the Pioneer module might fix it.

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Just now, DStaal said:

It's the center of the vessel, not the center of the survey module - I can't tell if there are connections on the other side of Pioneer module, but if there are, it's definitely going to be to far away.  Even without, you're pretty close to 10m from the center of that ship: I'm assuming the Kontainer at the top is full of MaterialKits, which will bring the CoM up, and I can't tell if there's anything above that.

Put a Pilot in the Pioneer module.  That'll probably fix it.  Even putting that Kerbal you have on EVA in the Pioneer module might fix it.

Oh that makes so much sense, center of vessel!  How many meters away can I get from the center with a level 3 pilot?

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On 8.2.2017 at 4:18 AM, taniwha said:

Odd, the EL button should never show in the main menu. Having both buttons show at the same time is also a bit of a worry.

more mods creating button in main menu, janitors closet, b9, auto science sampler, EL

here is the LOG - using stock install + EL + Toolbar

http:// https://mega.nz/#!jNAFVZTI!sZzIOmGzQ4FL5tl7kccVgB_aDGSMT7S5HKYrEmLZZio

 

edit: i tried with stock + EL + Toolbar + JanitorsCloset... working :(

Edited by eLDude
link naming is bugged oO
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21 hours ago, Liquid5n0w said:

Oh that makes so much sense, center of vessel!  How many meters away can I get from the center with a level 3 pilot?

800m

20 hours ago, eLDude said:

more mods creating button in main menu, janitors closet, b9, auto science sampler, EL

I meant only that as I did EL's app-launcher button correctly, it shouldn't be happening, but I must have goofed with something.

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I'm having a problem with EL - it is unusable at the moment because UI seems 'corrupted' (as shown in pic). 

IPrhtZS.png

I'm running quite a lot od mods on my playthrough, not sure which one might be causing this. All other bases with EL Survey Station have the same issue.

 

EDIT: apparently one base does not have this issue. The not-corrupted one has been constructed via EL recently (less than 30 days), all other are more than 2 years old (and have been constructed via EL) 

Edited by Barcel
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@Barcel: this is a known problem and has something to do with the survey stakes. I'm not sure why it happens, but the survey station is trying to adjust the highlighting on stakes in a site that is either empty (eh?)  or doesn't exist (more eh?).

For both the broken sites and the not broken site: do they have any survey sites nearby? How far are they from the survey vessel (not survey station part, but the vessel with the part)? Focus on the survey vessel and target the stakes to get their distances. What kerbals are in your survey station part? While I have locally removed the code that's causing the exception, I'm still concerned about the actual cause of the problem.

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I am experiencing a problem with construction.  Recently, I returned to my base on Mun after having done nothing with it for quite some time, in order to perform a hardware upgrade.  The new hardware was to be built by my base and replace its old equivalent.  However, when I issued the "Build" command, the progress gauge shot forward way faster than it should have, quickly arriving at the point where it had used up all of the resources I had made available to it (the workshop was on and the smelter was in recycle mode).  Knowing this should not be happening, I tried several things to return operations to normal, including clicking on all parts with Kerbals in them once before starting the build (which had worked for clearing this issue at various points in the past, but not this time).  Finally, I had to disconnect all of my modules, replace them through edits to the SFS-file, and reconnect them.  Only then did proper construction behavior resume.

I was subsequently able to build and launch once from my similar base on Minmus and twice from a similar base on Ike without incident.  I then checked and determined that of the locations I had EL-equipped bases, Gilly (where I had built and launched something not too long ago) would need to be the launch site for my next mission (due to having the correct interplanetary angle with respect to the target celestial object: Dres).  However, upon issuing the "Build" command at Gilly, the issue I had experienced on Mun recurred.  In addition to EL 5.6.0, I am running MM 2.7.5, KAS 0.6.2, and KAS 0.7.3 (a beta version for an eventual KAS 1.0.  Note: Current KAS and Beta KAS are non-conflicting, as Beta KAS involves different parts and functions differently).  Some of the parts are indicating productivity of zero, particularly the cupolas I generally place on top of workshops.  On Gilly, I tried reassigning the seats so that each part that could hold crew had at least one Engineer in it, ensuring that all such parts had non-zero productivity (this is in sandbox mode), but this failed to solve the problem.  At one point while I had experienced the issue on Mun, I tried emptying my Metal and Rocket Parts tanks with an SFS-edit to see if this would help me correct the issue.  However, not only did it not solve the problem, but when I tried turning the smelter on to slowly feed resources to the launchpad (my workshop was also on at that point), Metal and Rocket Parts were produced much faster than normal.  Although Beta KAS updated recently, no parts from Beta KAS are present at either my Mun base or my Gilly base, nor do the vessels I was attempting to build in those two cases contain such parts.  The same is also true of my bases at Minmus and Ike, all three of the ships successfully launched between these two incidents, and all recycler rovers present at the bases involved in this situation (which are sometimes hooked up to these bases using winch connections from KAS 0.6.2).

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This sounds like some sort of weird catch-up problem. However, I don't think I've ever experienced such. The only thing I can think of is you had a LOT of stored up kerbal-hours and a sufficiently low frame rate that you somehow had time to select your craft and start building before the build-up was exhausted at the rate of 6 hours / frame by default (look for MaxDeltaTime in ResourceScenario in your persistent.sfs). If running at real-time (green MET), that works out to 50 Kerbin days/second.

Come to think of it, I doubt I've ever been away from one of my bases or stations for more than 50 days, so if that's the cause, I would not have had a chance to notice the problem.

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@taniwha I assume by survey sites you mean survey stakes (or groups of them)? If so, one in the picture has a site (3 stakes) about 20m away (cant check precisely, not near my PC. You can see the closest stake on the picture, red blip under UI window bottom-right corner) and the other broken one has a single stake also 20-30m away (it's a rover).

The not-broken sits on top of a stake (it was built by that rover). I can post pictures if that would be helpful.

As for the kerbals, in 1st base (picture) the part (MKS Logistics Module) has 1 Quatermaster (MKS custom class) and on the 2nd (rover) there is one pilot.

But most importantly - can I fix this?

Edited by Barcel
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MaxDeltaTime is reading 21600, which when divided by 3600 does indeed equal 6.  In both instances where I encountered the bug, I had quicksaved after selecting the craft to be built but before issuing the Build command.  After encountering the bug, I would revert to my quicksave in an attempt to clear it, but would always turn on the smelter and workshop and in some cases do things like click on all of my parts with Kerbals aboard before issuing the Build command.  These have not been the only instances where I have quicksaved after selecting a craft but before issuing the Build command, and since I started doing it, it has only been a problem these two times.  In fact, in some situations, I had even ended a session with a ship loaded but no Build order issued.  I am also frequently going more than 50 Kerbin-days between visits to my bases, since I am frequently running interplanetary missions and focusing on one at a time, but sometimes when I find that all applicable interplanetary angles are bad, I send missions between objects in the same planetary system (recently, this has been mostly from Ike to Duna).

I cannot be sure if there is any pattern to when I have quicksaved with a craft selected but not yet building and how long I have been away from any particular base, but I do know that I had not used my Gilly base since a while before I had the incident on Mun, and since then, I launched a vessel from Ike, landed on Dres (for the first time), and returned to Kerbin, so time away from a base could also be a contributing factor.  As for framerate, there is typically a lag during "physics easing", but I typically do not do try to do anything until "physics easing" has occurred (I certainly do not want one of my bases to be affected by a Kraken, as that usually leads to Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly).  Some time ago during operations on Eve involving a somewhat similar base, I did notice that I was lagging during resource processing operations, but I would not think it would be that slow.  On the other hand, I was not aware of anything about "stored up Kerbal hours".  Does this mean that the Kerbals could be somehow contributing downtime incurred before a Build order toward that build, despite not knowing what they would build?  Even if so, that does not explain the smelter and workshop processing resources faster than normal, especially since the smelter is unmanned and both were turned off prior to selection of the craft to be built. 

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@Barcel: that stake looks to be significantly further than 20m from the base's CoM. Try putting a pilot (or whatever class to which MKS gives the survey skill, but EL defaults to pilots) into your survey station. Easy way to know for sure is to check the kerbal description in the astronaut complex: The distance the kerbal can work with is mentioned.

In the meantime, I'll keep poking to see why the survey station has an empty site in its list.

While writing this, I did some poking and it looks like it might not be an empty site, but an unloaded (distant) one. Please get me your KSP.log file so I can check.

@cgwhite4: A Kerbin year of backlog would work out to 8s of game-time (MET) to catch up. EL's extractors and converters use stock modules with custom recipes, and EL's workshop "background" processing is based on stock's, so the bug is in both. A simple way to check is to look at the relevant workshop in your quicksave and check its "lastUpdateString" (bah, just noticed that "String" :P (contributed code)). That's the UT of the last time the workshop updated, so subtract it from UT in the FLIGHTSTATE node to get the number of seconds of update (relevant for only the workshops, the converters/extractors will have a different variable, but same idea).

I have some ideas on how to fix this problem once and for all, but they will take some work to implement.

[edit] Oh, and as a half-joke workaround: install Kerbal Alarm Clock :wink:

Edited by taniwha
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