Laythe too similar to Kerbin?

[thereaverofdarkness]

It seems to me that flying a plane on Laythe is much too similar to flying a plane on Kerbin. The plane handles about the same, the ocean looks the same, the ground is a plain color that can be seen on some beaches on Kerbin. Landings are slightly different but almost the same, the terrain has some interesting shapes, and the surface is mostly ocean. The sky is blue. Really, the most alien thing about Laythe is seeing Jool in the sky.

I'm just curious if there's some reasoning behind making Laythe so similar to Kerbin? Does it become difficult to fly planes in the atmosphere when the gravity is changed significantly? Are there plans in the works to change the ocean and ground texturing eventually? Couldn't the sky be a slightly different hue?

[Unfawkable]

Well, if vegetation is ever added, I guess it could have different trees and plants, but other than that life supporting planets (carbon life like us) are pretty much the same with one another.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Nah, they'll each be very unique as a matter of fact. Since we haven't seen any real life-supporting planets other than Earth, it is hard to know what they would look like, but there are some things we do know about planets:

1.) many different sizes can support life

2.) life can live in almost any gravity

3.) life can live in a wide variety of atmospheric thicknesses

4.) life as we see it on Earth can almost certainly come forth on planets or moons outside the Goldilocks zone due to forces other than direct sunlight generating the necessary energy and pressure for liquid water and complex organic molecules

This information alone suggest it is extremely likely that the vast majority of life-bearing worlds appear significantly different from Earth. Also, the blue sky is mostly a product of the thickness of our ozone layer. There's no confirmation I've heard that Laythe is a life-supporting planet. It could have produced an oxygen-rich atmosphere through some other process, or may have formed that way and simply lacks the surface materials to combine with the oxygen in order to deplete it.

Edited November 29, 2013 by thereaverofdarkness

[lajoswinkler]

Our sky is not blue because of ozone. The amount of ozone in the stratosphere is really tiny. Sky is blue because of Rayleigh scattering on nitrogen and oxygen molecules. Mostly nitrogen, of course.

Titan's sky would also be blue if there wasn't any organic smog and in fact, it is, above the orange layer.

I think the sky on Mars would also have a bluish hue if there wasn't any reddish dust in it. Rayleigh scattering has to do with the size of the molecules (O2, N2 and CO2 are similar in size), not their absorption spectrum.

So blue sky is like a default colour when you've got colourless or nearly colourless gases in atmospheres.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Well then I stand corrected. But that doesn't mean that Laythe COULDN'T have a different colored sky. But the rest of my point remains anyway. And I was wondering how changing the gravity affects flight. Like, say the next gas giant in the Kerbol system gets a Titan analogue with an atmosphere much thicker than Kerbin at surface, but with much lower gravity--but say the analogue has oxygen in the air. What would it be like to fly a plane in that? Alternatively, what would it be like to fly a plane over a very-low-gravity planet with a thin atmosphere, say, reduced in thickness to make the lift-to-weight ratio similar to Kerbin?

[Felsmak]

I like Laythe. To me, most of its charm comes from the fact that it looks like Kerbin but isn't Kerbin. The oceans, the blue sky and the sandy beaches might trick you into feeling like you're still on Kerbin, but then you'd only have to look up to let Jool remind you that you are, in fact, very, very far away from home. It's similar, but still very alien.

[Kegereneku]

What will influence flight dynamic on another planet :

- air density

- gravity

- the composition of the atmosphere.

- temperature

The most important for aerodynamic flight is air density : Too thin and you can't go slowly (not enough lift), too thick and you can't go fast (too much drag).

Gravity will change the lift-to-weight ratio required and the height of the atmosphere.

The composition of the atmosphere will determine what engine/propeller will work, and how efficient it can be.

Temperature mostly matter for turbojet and the amount of thrust you'll get from them (hot = bad).

what would it be like to fly a plane over a very-low-gravity planet with a thin atmosphere, say, reduced in thickness to make the lift-to-weight ratio similar to Kerbin?

Last I heard it would be pretty easy to fly over Titan if you could power a propeller there.

The atmosphere is said to be so thick that "humans could fly through it by flapping "wings" attached to their arms" (wiki), and the low gravity mean the atmosphere extend very far (bad news for orbiter). The temperature is very very low, if your fuel don't freeze you could get a lot of thrust from an hypothetical turbojet.

What it mean is that you could turn on a dim at high altitude, gain altitude faster and thrust-drag will be a little more important than weight-lift.

[Tw1]

I like Laythe. To me, most of its charm comes from the fact that it looks like Kerbin but isn't Kerbin.

I agree, that's a lot of its charm. Kerbin represents Earth, a home planet, and an origin. Laythe represents possible future homes.

That said, it's been mentioned a fair bit Laythe will possibly gain a lot of volcanism (it is being acted on by a lot of tidal forces from Jool and the other moons), making it less simple to find a pleasant spot, and it is also possible that the oceans have different chemistry to Kerbin's, possibly containing notable amounts of ammonia, or strange salts.

There's also a lot of debate about what the surface radiation level would be- that would restrict eva time, and limit the chance of finding/establishing life there.

Hopefully they will leave it moderately hospitable, you just will need to take care.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Tw1

[Whirligig Girl]

I think Laythe should become much less hospitable, and more of a deadly place than a happy place. I'd love the Titan analog to be Kerbin-like, though.

[Xellith]

From what I recall of what a developer said, they mentioned that Laythe is envisioned as radioactive with volcano's. Currently Laythe looks friendly, but that's only because they havent fleshed out the other planets yet. (I could be wrong about the volcano's but I definitely recall the dev saying that it is going to be radioactive)

[thereaverofdarkness]

That will be rather interesting to see. Perhaps Laythe gets its energy from tidal interactions with Jool, and it'll become much warmer once they flesh it out. The volcanism could be a gift and a curse: perhaps it poisons the planet, but you'd have no oxygen or heat without it. Laythe might still be a future colonization prospect, but not an easy one.

[TimMartland]

Don't quote me in this, but I remember a while back someone either on or with the dev team talking about laythe being irradiated and possessing brutal weather systems, as well as the afformentioned geological instability.

[chuckbillrow]

the devs have said something about adding volcanoes to layth but honestly i think it should be made more kerban like (add plants to the ground scatter) or more titan like (much colder no oxygen and the oceans are some kerban analog for liquid methane)

[TheGeoninja]

I think that Laythe should stay as it is. If you think about it Laythe is the ultimate goal for intermediate players to go to the most Kerbin like planet in the Solar System. I do know that the Devs said it would become irradiated but we don't have that kind of stuff at the moment. I think it makes sense to keep it as is and another oxygen rich planet to orbit gas giant two. A place where solar panels will be inefficient and would take a insane amount of skill to get to.

[Kasuha]

From the logic of the thing, a planet with oxygen in atmosphere needs to have life to maintain the oxygen concentration.

In Laythe's case there is another thing - it has seas in a place way further from Sun than where Kerbin is. Something needs to keep the liquid from freezing.

I think Laythe's seas should be turned deep green to suggest there's a lot of (microbial) life in them, maintaining both oxygen and flowing water.

I also think Laythe should have way bigger polar caps.

Edit: and regarding the sky color discussion,

. Edited December 2, 2013 by Kasuha

[LethalDose]

If Laythe is too much like Kerbin right now, the solution is to wait.

The game is in development, and it's the only other body with an oxygen containing atmosphere. So, during this phase in development, its gonna look like Kerbin, but that doesn't mean that's how it's going to appear in the final version of the game.