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thanks for the heads up on .23


r4pt0r
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now that you guys announce when you enter experimental phase, i don't need to worry about squandering my time playing career only to have it wiped away by a new update. the heads up has arrived and I thank you. now i will hunt zombies until space, SCIENCE, and .23 beckon for me.

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I was wondering the same. Should I just give up on my current career mode? Just want to know asap so I don't waste any time as Steam will auto update for me.

To be safe, make a copy of KSP from the Steam folder and run that. Then, when the update does comes out, you can test your current projects on the updated Steam copy for compatability.

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I was wondering the same. Should I just give up on my current career mode? Just want to know asap so I don't waste any time as Steam will auto update for me.

I understand the wanting to know, but to flat out say you'll be wasting your time if it breaks your current save, then aren't you technically wasting your time like.. always.. considering you KNOW there'll be more patches. Just pointing out that you might want to start thinking differently about things :wink:

Needless to say I'm existed :D

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Historically, very few updates have actually been save breaking. 0.14 was the first to have saves, and save files from .14 through .17 were pretty much identical. 0.18 completely reworked the way fuel is stored on vessels, among other things, so it broke a lot of things. 0.19 and .20 had no compatibility issues. 0.21 changed the way crew was stored. It had a built in converter though, and most pre .21 saves can be successfully converted to the new format. 0.22 added science sections for career mode saves, but the format is identical for sandbox saves. In fact, it's possible to use saves from .18 in .22, the biggest problem is the terrain changes. Anything landed on Kerbin or the Mun runs the risk of being underground or similar problems. Also, anything landed near KSC has a chance of intersecting one of the new buildings. I'm guessing that saves will probably be compatible with 0.23.

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Sandbox will be safe.

Career will probably be safe but could be broken. They're making most of the changes we see to career so... but they didn't say they were changing around the tech tree and doing that is the only thing I can think of that would break career saves.

Then they were doing all sorts of under the hood optimizations so who knows what that could effect.

I for one would like an updated list of .23s planned features and a word on save breaking or not. I expect not but am ok with it breaking. I basically restart a game every version anyway.

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Sandbox will be safe.

I for one would like an updated list of .23s planned features and a word on save breaking or not. I expect not but am ok with it breaking. I basically restart a game every version anyway.

I agree. I tend to start new saves when new versions come out, despite the fact that my old saves are still good.

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I understand the wanting to know, but to flat out say you'll be wasting your time if it breaks your current save, then aren't you technically wasting your time like.. always.. considering you KNOW there'll be more patches. Just pointing out that you might want to start thinking differently about things :wink:

In the words of the great Alan Watts, "What is time for if not for wasting?"

I agree with you whole-heartedly Sokar408... such comments are indicative of a results-driven approach to gaming, which is looking at things upside-down and backwards.

This is the result of harmful (ego-centric) patterns of thought, and leads to unhealthy levels of attachment.

It's something that has always bothered me about the gaming community in general.

I see more and more people compulsively playing games in pursuit of some undefined future accomplishment, and totally forgetting to have fun in the process.

"Games" like Farmville are perfect examples to illustrate our susceptibility to this results-driven approach to gaming, as nobody can claim that the gameplay is fun, unique, or interesting, and yet people will schedule their lives around harvesting their virtual crops in pursuit of some meaningless 2D graphic that promises... what exactly?

If the thought of a corrupted save file makes continuing to play seem like a "waste" of time, then what is it that makes the persistent game a good use of time?

In short, wasting time is not only what gaming is all about, but it's what life is all about. I'm amazed that people can delude themselves into thinking that they will accomplish something meaningful in a game(or in life) if given sufficient time, as though there is actually something meaningful to be accomplished other than simply having fun.

Left unchecked, such anxious ways of thinking will manifest as markedly more accute anxiety or depression as time progresses.

This issue is much bigger than gaming, however I fear that I've gone a wee bit off-topic here.

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right but its nice to get the heads up that this week is a poor week to start docking your laythe base components in LKO , only to find that the base will be gone about a dozen days from now. plus you woundnt want to send it without a science module sr. would you? :D

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Wow, there are some seriously insightful posts on this thread.. I wholeheartedly agree on the notion that a game is something you should be enjoying as you play, not suffering through for the promise of some indeterminate reward further ahead.

That said, there seems to be a balance to strike here (as with all things), because following this argument to its logical conclusion would lead to the idea that games should not be persistent at all, and we're back to how coin-operated arcade gaming worked.

There is merit in working towards a higher goal in a near future, most definitely. But games, like many other things, are about the journey, not the destination. With KSP, that's actually quite literal an analogy. ;)

Musings aside though, there's nothing in 0.23 that has caused compatibility issues with previous saves. My test saves here are all from 0.22 or even earlier, and they are all working normally. A key thing to understand about compatibility in KSP is that when something makes a save incompatible, that doesn't mean the game will outright treat old files as unloadable. To make that happen, we here have to manually set a new "last-compatible" version number for the file formats that broke, so the game throws error messages and disables the incompatible ones. Unless we do that, the game will allow you to load the save and treat it as a fully compatible file.

Note though, I can't say the same for modded installs. If a plugin breaks because of changes to the game code, then there's no telling what it could do... In that case, you'll have to wait until the plugin is updated to work on 0.23, but unless your game was corrupted as a result of the plugin failure, once the mod is updated you should be good to go again.

Long story short, we haven't had to up the last-compatible version on any of the file formats here so far, so compatibility is preserved as far as we can tell.

Cheers

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I wholeheartedly agree on the notion that a game is something you should be enjoying as you play, not suffering through for the promise of some indeterminate reward further ahead.

That said, there seems to be a balance to strike here (as with all things), because following this argument to its logical conclusion would lead to the idea that games should not be persistent at all, and we're back to how coin-operated arcade gaming worked.

That's an interesting idea, not what I would've thought. Particularly with KSP, I enjoy mucking about on the Mun, pressing the science things, etc, but a lot of the fun comes from watching things like bases and stations evolve over time.

This reminds me of the debate over contracts/missions. Some are wanting missions that define what they do in the game, others, small tasks that can add on to their own plans, giving them more fun challenges, rather than not planing missions themselves. Good luck working that part out.

And thanks for the info, good to know saves aren't breaking this time 'round.

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I don't really care for now if saves carry over. But I can see that some people with giant orbiting bases would be sad to lose that save. On the other hand I don't think savestates should be more important than new features.

What I hope most for is that .23 will be better as .22 :)

I know it exists as mod, but it I think it is an essential part to the game to scan planets to find special stuff, unique regions and good landing zones and maybe other stuff on them. If I would find an anomaly with a scanner, I would be muuuuuuuuuuch more eager to land on a planet.

Another thing I am missing are thick athmospheres where when you go down on a planet you stop seeing the sky and you dont see the ground unless you get closer than 200 meters to it. Some special x ray scanner would help landing on these, while only improved orbit scanner could scan the ground there. Also who knows what you would find swimming in such a thick athmosphere :o or floating island to land on.

And finally, finding monolith/anomalies with alien tech, metroid style, which either enhance your kerbals, a certain part you bring with which you then can stock build, or just a special part you have to collect and bring home with some kind of carry robot :S

And another thing that would be hot is mining in space/on planet for new materials for new/better parts.

But thats just my five cents. I am making games my self so I kno how hard it is :/

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