Papa_Joe Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Update:With what I learned about internal views, I've now devised a way to not only move kerbals from part to part, but from seat to seat within the same part, as well.Cleaning it up now. Seat to seat works the same as part to part. You will see a "V" (could be an "S") button to the left of the kerbal's name for seat to seat. You still have to click "Update Portraits" to refresh the internal views.By clicking the V, the kerbal moves to the next seat (by internal index). If another kerbal is in the target seat, that kerbal swaps places with the original kerbal. You just click. Ship Manifest does the paperwork. Edit: Decided on ">>" for the button. I know I released just recently, but this is a cool enough feature to get it out right a way. Release imminent. Edited February 5, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 New Release: 0.23.3.1.1Seat to Seat Transfers. See OP for details. Now you can move your kerbals around the cabin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diomedea Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have one request (no, not about less frequent updates of your mod ).Sometimes I fly and dock together very large ships, and have to transfer resources from one to the other. Let's say, perfect job for ship manifest. However, having something like 20 tanks on each ship and setting the transfer for each one is tedious work.How would be great, is there was the possibility to group parts together (automatically, of course). At the very least, tanks/batteries/lifesupport built with simmetry on; and then a group with all parts of a ship in it. Then, a single transfer command with the group would be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unteknikal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Nice mod works well so far, but the crew transfer feature don't add my custom kerbals textures, they come stock as far as I can tell, I'm going to test the mod a little more if this ''issue'' persist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I have one request (no, not about less frequent updates of your mod ).Sometimes I fly and dock together very large ships, and have to transfer resources from one to the other. Let's say, perfect job for ship manifest. However, having something like 20 tanks on each ship and setting the transfer for each one is tedious work.How would be great, is there was the possibility to group parts together (automatically, of course). At the very least, tanks/batteries/lifesupport built with simmetry on; and then a group with all parts of a ship in it. Then, a single transfer command with the group would be enough.Someone else has requested multi-part transfers. I am considering this. However, given my plans with In-flight Checklists, I'm thinking this may actually fit into that better.My thoughts for checklists go like this:- They should be open and flexible, combining free text with some automation.- They should allow you to "program" an action or activity. One button press and the action is completed. - They should have check boxes to indicate completion- They should allow you to enter notes during flight- They should be persistent. You can quit the game and come back and your list is still there.This is where multi-part transfers might fit nicely. When creating the Checklist item, using a set of drop downs, Select the action (Transfer),select resource, select all source parts, select 1 or more target parts, and click ok. The checklist item is then ready for when you reach that part in the "program" as NASA used to call it in the day. Clicking the Go button in the checklist item performs the action, and checks the list item.Of course, any in-flight tweakable should be available from the checklist as well. Full control in an ordered (and repeatable) way. Maybe save as a template and you can add the list to the ship at launch or in assembly.This way you can save a Checklist for a craft, and have a "This is how you fly it" included with the ship.Nice mod works well so far, but the crew transfer feature don't add my custom kerbals textures, they come stock as far as I can tell, I'm going to test the mod a little more if this ''issue'' persist.This is actually quite interesting, as I do not go anywhere near textures. What it DOES tell me though, is that the method i'm using for moving kerbals is wrong. I've patterned (and studied on) crew transfers after a couple of previous mods, and I've been troubled by the inability to properly instantiate the target internal view, which is why the portraits do not refresh correctly. I've been thinking about this, and the developers had no need to consider what I'm trying to do, as anytime a kerbal leaves it's seat it is to go EVA. So, I'm thinking I need to learn how to do an invisible EVA and simply board the vessel using the Board() function. I know this works, and causes the correct refreshing of the portraits. Now to figure out how to do it.... Edited February 6, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diomedea Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Actionable checklists! Sounds really nice, hope to see these soon. And, these may be really of help with child ships, what undocks from a mothership has no set actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horman Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Someone else has requested multi-part transfers. I am considering this. However, given my plans with In-flight Checklists, I'm thinking this may actually fit into that better.My thoughts for checklists go like this:- They should be open and flexible, combining free text with some automation.- They should allow you to "program" an action or activity. One button press and the action is completed. - They should have check boxes to indicate completion- They should allow you to enter notes during flight- They should be persistent. You can quit the game and come back and your list is still there.This is where multi-part transfers might fit nicely. When creating the Checklist item, using a set of drop downs, Select the action (Transfer),select resource, select all source parts, select 1 or more target parts, and click ok. The checklist item is then ready for when you reach that part in the "program" as NASA used to call it in the day. Clicking the Go button in the checklist item performs the action, and checks the list item.Of course, any in-flight tweakable should be available from the checklist as well. Full control in an ordered (and repeatable) way. Maybe save as a template and you can add the list to the ship at launch or in assembly.This way you can save a Checklist for a craft, and have a "This is how you fly it" included with the ship.I love that idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taki117 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Question: How does the Fuel transfer work? Is it simmilar to TAC Fuel Balancer? It seems that the Crew Transfer works like Crew manifest, but how does the Science work? Is it like FScience or is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enneract Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I could suggest a feature\option - randomize crew loadout on launch, instead of stocking the ship with the first available crew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Actionable checklists! Sounds really nice, hope to see these soon. And, these may be really of help with child ships, what undocks from a mothership has no set actions.I could do that, if I tie the manifest to the root part of an assembly. This would also allow checklists at the subassembly level... interesting... but now we are getting a fair amount of data stored on the local machine.... Could be worth it tho... In xml you could also edit them externally... hmmm...Question: How does the Fuel transfer work? Is it simmilar to TAC Fuel Balancer? It seems that the Crew Transfer works like Crew manifest, but how does the Science work? Is it like FScience or is different?All resources work the same.Click on Crew, Science, or one of the resources.Click Transfer. The transfer window appears.Click on a source part, and then click on a target part.The details sections below show you what you can do.Crew: Xfer moves the selected kerbal to the other part.Science. Xfer moves the Data for the selected experiment/container to the target container.Resource. Xfer moves the resource to the target part.Pretty simple really, and the same interface for all. It won't let you do what cannot be done. For example. in a crew transfer you will not get an xfer button on a source crew member if the target part is already full....No, it does not work like TAC. TAC is more robust than my tool's resource capabilities, and is used to balance a ship's COM using fuel transfers (in flight COM management). It also supports multi part feeds to a single part, drawing from each source equally. Ship Manifest does not yet support multiple part resource transfers. I will not ever support COM balancing or many of the other features of TAC. If you want the features of TAC, please use that fine mod. FScience is actually based on Crew manifest. So the two might work the same. I know I did not copy FScience code to do my work, tho I did look at it. I have heavily modified the original Crew Manifest code so it no longer looks much like it did originally.I believe this tool fits nicely as a general management tool, handling those things you would normally see on a ship's manifest (Crew/passengers), cargo lists, resources needed to operate the vessel, checklists and such.If I could suggest a feature\option - randomize crew loadout on launch, instead of stocking the ship with the first available crew?Yup, that would be good. Nice idea. Edited February 6, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobe Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I really like the checklists idea. It would probably suit the scenario I had in mind when asking about multi part transfers well. The scenario involved docking a lander that had multiple kethane tanks to a station and then unloading as much kethane as possible from all tanks equally, so that if there was any excess the lander would remain balanced.It would make things much more convenient to have all the steps in the process planned out and executable as single action.This is probably going far beyond your intended scope, but would it be possible using a system like that to formulate a timed launch sequence? For example, executing a launch command might include waiting a few seconds (for a countdown), igniting the main engines and then a couple seconds later releasing the clamps and igniting any SRBs at T0. Edited February 6, 2014 by Bobe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unteknikal Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 This is actually quite interesting, as I do not go anywhere near textures. What it DOES tell me though, is that the method i'm using for moving kerbals is wrong. I've patterned (and studied on) crew transfers after a couple of previous mods, and I've been troubled by the inability to properly instantiate the target internal view, which is why the portraits do not refresh correctly. I've been thinking about this, and the developers had no need to consider what I'm trying to do, as anytime a kerbal leaves it's seat it is to go EVA. So, I'm thinking I need to learn how to do an invisible EVA and simply board the vessel using the Board() function. I know this works, and causes the correct refreshing of the portraits. Now to figure out how to do it....Well seems that only at the transfer the textures where changed somehow to stock, then after reloading a save or a ship switch the textures are the custom again, tbh no much of a problem although if you find a way to load the custom textures is going to be even better. The rest of the features works perfectly for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) I really like the checklists idea. It would probably suit the scenario I had in mind when asking about multi part transfers well. The scenario involved docking a lander that had multiple kethane tanks to a station and then unloading as much kethane as possible from all tanks equally, so that if there was any excess the lander would remain balanced.It would make things much more convenient to have all the steps in the process planned out and executable as single action.This is probably going far beyond your intended scope, but would it be possible using a system like that to formulate a timed launch sequence? For example, executing a launch command might include waiting a few seconds (for a countdown), igniting the main engines and then a couple seconds later releasing the clamps and igniting any SRBs at T0.Multiple step processing I had not considered. I was thinking along the lines of single actions per step, with user input. However, chaining steps is an interesting idea...Well seems that only at the transfer the textures where changed somehow to stock, then after reloading a save or a ship switch the textures are the custom again, tbh no much of a problem although if you find a way to load the custom textures is going to be even better. The rest of the features works perfectly for me.Very good to hear that! Edited February 7, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acc Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 science transfer does not work for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) science transfer does not work for meCan you describe what you are doing and what you see?I will be the first to admit that I did not get much testing on it. I play mainly in sandbox mode and my career mode save is early.If you would, please get to the point where you are ready to perform the transfer, and then go to settings, turn on the debug console, and clear the log.then turn on Verbose logging. Perform the transfer, and then turn off verbose logging.take a screenshot of the results in the debug console, and post it. That might help me to determine what is happening.I will also go thru the code again. Edited February 8, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-a-cylon Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Can you describe what you are doing and what you see?I will be the first to admit that I did not get much testing on it. I play mainly in sandbox mode and my career mode save is early.If you would, please get to the point where you are ready to perform the transfer, and then go to settings, turn on the debug console, and clear the log.then turn on Verbose logging. Perform the transfer, and then turn off verbose logging.take a screenshot of the results in the debug console, and post it. That might help me to determine what is happening.I will also go thru the code again.I too am having this problem. The science transfer is the biggest selling point of this mod- I'd really like this mod to replace crew manifest on my save I go through with the normal transfer procedures (just like transferring crew) with the science experiments. I can click the buttons to select the command pods and/or science experiments (mystery goo container, etc etc). When I press transfer, nothing happens. In essence science container-> command pod or command pod->command pod science transfers don't really do anything. I was going to suggest you look at the FScience mod to see how that works, but I see you've already checked out that mod's thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I too am having this problem. The science transfer is the biggest selling point of this mod- I'd really like this mod to replace crew manifest on my save I go through with the normal transfer procedures (just like transferring crew) with the science experiments. I can click the buttons to select the command pods and/or science experiments (mystery goo container, etc etc). When I press transfer, nothing happens. In essence science container-> command pod or command pod->command pod science transfers don't really do anything. I was going to suggest you look at the FScience mod to see how that works, but I see you've already checked out that mod's thread.Thanks. I will have to set up a further progress career save than I currently have to properly test. This may be obvious, but Science transfers do not work in sandbox mode, as there is no data generated.I have looked at FScience, and the methods used are simple enough. My tool handles decision making differently, but only in the sense that I exclude experiments in the target part in advance, as there is know known way to transfer science into an experiment, and I don't want to give you a choice that will only give you warning after the fact that the target is incompatible with the transfer (llike FScience does). As simple as the code methods are to use, I'm confused as to why it is not working... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acc Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I had no time to play again, but I remember every science module/part had a "x of 0" value on the GUI. So i guess the plugin thinks there is no (free) space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heralo Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Is it possible to transfer Kerbals to a ship/plane already on the launch pad/runway? I looked but didn't see how to do this. Edited February 10, 2014 by heralo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Is it possible to transfer Kerbals to a ship/plane already on the launch pad/runway? I looked but didn't see how to do this.Not yet, but next update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinard Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Great work Papa Joe. I didn't see this earlier, but you do have to be docked to transfer fuel right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Great work Papa Joe. I didn't see this earlier, but you do have to be docked to transfer fuel right?Thanks! You are correct. You must be docked to transfer. Edited February 11, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) I had no time to play again, but I remember every science module/part had a "x of 0" value on the GUI. So i guess the plugin thinks there is no (free) space.Sorry I missed earlier.Good catch on that 0/0 display issue, but unfortunately we aren't far enough in the transfer process to get to that check. When it attempts to getdata from the source partmodule, it returns null. Something is not getting properly created. sorting it out now... Edited February 11, 2014 by Papa_Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa_Joe Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yay!I fixed the Science Xfer Bug! Dumb error, don't ask.Added Bi-Directional Resource Xfers too. Now you can go from source to target OR target to source. Convenient.New Version: 0.23.3.1.2, 11 Feb 2014 Toolbar 1.5.2 is with it.@heralo: Sorry, but in my excitement after fixing the Science bug, I whipped up the update and posted it to SpacePort.I'll add pre-launch crew management on the next update, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystique Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Empty vessel" on launchpad removes all resources from ship. However "fill vessel" doesn't replenish them back. Is that working as intended?P.S. Will there ever be option to dump fuel/monopropellant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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