Jump to content

[1.4.1] Ship Manifest (Crew, Science, & Resources) - v 5.2.1.0 - 17 Mar 18


Recommended Posts

It would be great, if in addition to solar panels controls Ship Manifest would have similar antennas control. It would be useful for remote tech. By the way, does this mod take into account control state of ship?

Very good idea. Antennas are so painful to click on...

As for the control state, I'm afraid I don't quite understand. Could you elaborate what you mean and what you might desire?

Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be great, if in addition to solar panels controls Ship Manifest would have similar antennas control. It would be useful for remote tech. By the way, does this mod take into account control state of ship?

I think he means if it is controllable or not. IE crewed pods not manned, probe cores not powered or lack of RT connection.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I think he means if it is controllable or not. IE crewed pods not manned, probe cores not powered or lack of RT connection.

Ah, now I understand.

With the recent changes to crew and skills, it makes sense that an unmanned vessel would have no one to actually perform the work (setting switches etc). So I certainly could (should) add a check for control state in realism mode. with that in mind, it then makes sense that resource transfers should consume some electricity in realism mode (other than electricity itself?).

I will also look into that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be great, if in addition to solar panels controls Ship Manifest would have similar antennas control. It would be useful for remote tech. By the way, does this mod take into account control state of ship?

And maybe light control too. Not for the internal lights, but spotlights/floodlights/navigation lights on the outside of the ship/station.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I can confirm that 4.1.3.1 fixes the issues I was having with 4.1.3.

Awesome!

Yes, exactly.

Also, stock game allows you to transfer resources only when R&D upgraded to level 2 or more. Does ship manifest also has this limitation?

Squad is going thru a major overhaul of R&D. they are changing the way they store and manage tech levels and researching capabilities See this post. I will defer on Career mode integration until the release of 1.0. I do like the idea tho, and do want to maintain the integrity of career mode within SM.

And maybe light control too. Not for the internal lights, but spotlights/floodlights/navigation lights on the outside of the ship/station.

Lights are also a good idea. I'm looking into merging Hatches, Solar Panels, Antennas and lights into one window with a tabbed interface. This way I keep the number of buttons on the Manifest window down, and place all like type activities together.

With that said, I've looked into Antennas and it will take a bit more effort to implement, as they work differently then Solar panels, and have more variability, expecially with RT. As a result, Antennas may come after Lights, in a separate release.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm looking into merging Hatches, Solar Panels, Antennas and lights into one window with a tabbed interface. This way I keep the number of buttons on the Manifest window down, and place all like type activities together.

Sounds great. Totally agree that it's better with tabs than separate windows for this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We can logically expand the idea of SH controls tab and add there list of all parts with controls. So you can select part from list instead of rotating ship on screen and searching this part. It would be specially useful for the crafts that store some parts clipped inside so they can't be used normally.

Action Groups Extended has similar functional but it allows only to add control to action group. In some cases creating an action group for just one use of part would be overkill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
We can logically expand the idea of SH controls tab and add there list of all parts with controls. So you can select part from list instead of rotating ship on screen and searching this part. It would be specially useful for the crafts that store some parts clipped inside so they can't be used normally.

Action Groups Extended has similar functional but it allows only to add control to action group. In some cases creating an action group for just one use of part would be overkill.

Exactly my thinking. I could see this expanding and realized that we needed a better way to manage it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy to report that I've successfully implemented the following:

1. Resource transfers (other than ElectricCharge) now cost ElectricCharge in Realism mode . This is a function of a basic Electrical cost per unit of resource and the actual flow rate. Can be tweaked in the config file. Not a perfect sim, but faster flow rates will cost more energy per sec.

2. Added Realism mode check for vessel is controllable. A manned vessel with no kerbals can no longer have resource transfers, etc. also respects other conditions that render the vessel uncontrollable. Probes without power, etc.

3. Added support for controlling Antennas and Lights.

4. Reworked the existing part control windows (Hatches, Solar Panels) to now be a single tabbed window. Added Antennas and Lights within this window. All are working.

Still some testing and final cleanup, but looks good and works nicely.

I expect to release pretty soon (day or 2)

Edited by Papa_Joe
Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Resource transfers (other than ElectricCharge) now cost ElectricCharge in Realism mode . This is a function of a basic Electrical cost per unit of resource and the actual flow rate. Can be tweaked in the config file.

Hey Papa-Joe,

Thanks very much for your continued work on this most awesome mod!

Can electricity use can be completely disabled in the config?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Papa-Joe,

Thanks very much for your continued work on this most awesome mod!

Can electricity use can be completely disabled in the config?

Thanks!

Currently I had planned to make it a Realism mode feature. With Realism Mode on, electrical cost applies. Turn off Realism and Electrical cost is free. I could add a setting to disable it separately with realism ON if desired. I do have some Realism features that can be "tweaked" already, for those that want some realism but not "everything"...

Edited by Papa_Joe
Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm happy to report that I've successfully implemented the following:

1. Resource transfers (other than ElectricCharge) now cost ElectricCharge in Realism mode . This is a function of a basic Electrical cost per unit of resource and the actual flow rate. Can be tweaked in the config file. Not a perfect sim, but faster flow rates will cost more energy per sec.

2. Added Realism mode check for vessel is controllable. A manned vessel with no kerbals can no longer have resource transfers, etc. also respects other conditions that render the vessel uncontrollable. Probes without power, etc.

3. Added support for controlling Antennas and Lights.

4. Reworked the existing part control windows (Hatches, Solar Panels) to now be a single tabbed window. Added Antennas and Lights within this window. All are working.

Still some testing and final cleanup, but looks good and works nicely.

I expect to release pretty soon (day or 2)

Great additions!

About the resource transfer energy costs: Can those settings be manipulated with MM statements?

So the config file in general is only read after MM did its thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Great additions!

About the resource transfer energy costs: Can those settings be manipulated with MM statements?

So the config file in general is only read after MM did its thing.

I did not create a module for the electrical costs, so I'm thinking it would not be alterable by MM. However, I've been giving that some thought, as what we are really talking about is a transfer pump. We "could" add a transfer pump module to the resource parts, and then configure the pump as desired. If we did that we could then characterize the pump as desired to "emulate" realistic energy costs, flow rates, etc....

An interesting Idea... If such a pump was created, then I could take advantage of it....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes please. "No realism" also means magical creation of resources while in flight (unless that was a bug?), which really means one might as well be playing with infinite fuel. Personally I'm not too fussed on flow rates or electricity consumption when transferring resources (not that much of a realism freak), but I do like the restrictions of CLS.

Happy for it to be a toggle in a config file though rather than having you make a GUI for it. Alternatively if I'm the odd one out I'm sure I can compile my own version :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
I did not create a module for the electrical costs, so I'm thinking it would not be alterable by MM. However, I've been giving that some thought, as what we are really talking about is a transfer pump. We "could" add a transfer pump module to the resource parts, and then configure the pump as desired. If we did that we could then characterize the pump as desired to "emulate" realistic energy costs, flow rates, etc....

An interesting Idea... If such a pump was created, then I could take advantage of it....

A fuel pump is indeed interesting!

About the config, in a similar case, I remember nightingale writing about running your monobehaviours on the "main menu" instead of instantly, would allow MM statements to alter those configs before they are read out by your plugin.

I m not sure about that, but if you would structure your config like a part, it would make MM editing easier.

Like

ShipManifestSettings
{
name = ShipManifestSettings

//eg 1.6 energy costs to pump one liter of resources
fuelpumpelectricity = 1.6
}

Oh, that reminds me. Be sure to check for different resource definitions, eg from the community resource pack. Since one unit of liquid fuel is much more than one unit of Oxygen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
A fuel pump is indeed interesting!

About the config, in a similar case, I remember nightingale writing about running your monobehaviours on the "main menu" instead of instantly, would allow MM statements to alter those configs before they are read out by your plugin.

I m not sure about that, but if you would structure your config like a part, it would make MM editing easier.

Like

ShipManifestSettings
{
name = ShipManifestSettings

//eg 1.6 energy costs to pump one liter of resources
fuelpumpelectricity = 1.6
}

Oh, that reminds me. Be sure to check for different resource definitions, eg from the community resource pack. Since one unit of liquid fuel is much more than one unit of Oxygen.

I've been debating wether or not to "bite the bullet" and revise the original XML style config file scheme to a more JSON style... I have always been annoyed at the long string of ksp debug log calls for loading each xml node with my current scheme... :P It is just that it is a bit of effort for relatively little gain.

However, given that I could change the MonoBehavior run to Main Menu and you could alter the config as desired at load, that would make the effort worthwhile. I really like that idea.

Let me take a look at the effort needed to revise the config load/parse/save process, and I'll report back. that would save adding another module to the game save.

If we did go with a new module, say a ModuleResourceXferPump, other realism mods could use it for managing the resource xfer process and costs for their own mods...

Link to post
Share on other sites
About the config, in a similar case, I remember nightingale writing about running your monobehaviours on the "main menu" instead of instantly, would allow MM statements to alter those configs before they are read out by your plugin.

I m not sure about that, but if you would structure your config like a part, it would make MM editing easier.

It's also a question of how the config file is loaded. Module Manager edits only affect config nodes that are loaded through the GameDatabase. If the config is being loaded directly from the file name MM won't affect it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It's also a question of how the config file is loaded. Module Manager edits only affect config nodes that are loaded through the GameDatabase. If the config is being loaded directly from the file name MM won't affect it.

So, that sounds like a new module may be in order...

- - - Updated - - -

Yes please. "No realism" also means magical creation of resources while in flight (unless that was a bug?), which really means one might as well be playing with infinite fuel. Personally I'm not too fussed on flow rates or electricity consumption when transferring resources (not that much of a realism freak), but I do like the restrictions of CLS.

Happy for it to be a toggle in a config file though rather than having you make a GUI for it. Alternatively if I'm the odd one out I'm sure I can compile my own version :)

No realism indeed means "magical" creation of resources in flight..:D It IS a feature not a bug... God mode anyone?

Not a problem with the xfer cost setting. I'm all about choices. I'll add a switch to the Realism settings to allow turning off Electrical cost. No need to go into the config file to alter it! Besides, I added a Realism Lock long ago for those that don't like the ability to "cheat". With the lock on, you HAVE to go to the config file to make changes.

Also, with the changes I made to the control window, I'm also going to change the behavior of the settings window to work the same, so you don't have to scroll as much...

Edited by Papa_Joe
Link to post
Share on other sites

New Release:

Version 0.90.0_4.1.4.0 - Release 21 Mar, 2015 - More Control & Realism Tweaks Edition.

- New: Added Antenna control support.

- New: Added Light control support.

- New: Reworked Hatches, Solar Panels, Antennas and Lights into a single management window called Control

- New: Reworked Settings Window to behave the same as the Control Window. Tabbed sections for less scrolling :)

- New: Added Electrical cost for Resource Xfers in realism mode, based on Actual Flow Rate, and Cost per unit setting in config.

- New: Added Settings switch for Resource Xfer Electricl Cost in Realism. Turn off if you don't wan't THAT much realism :)

- New: Added support for vessel control state in realism mode. Resource transfers not possible when controlable = false.

Enjoy!

As always, let me know if you find any issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How well does the electrical requirement for pumps scale with Oxygen vs Food vs Water in mods like TAC-LifeSupport? Food is typically measured in hundreds of units per tank while Oxygen is measured in tens of thousands of units in the same sized tank. A food tank holds 2200 units while the same sized Oxygen tank holds 486496 units of O2.

An equivalent mass/size tank of monoprop is only 375 units.

Link to post
Share on other sites
How well does the electrical requirement for pumps scale with Oxygen vs Food vs Water in mods like TAC-LifeSupport? Food is typically measured in hundreds of units per tank while Oxygen is measured in tens of thousands of units in the same sized tank. A food tank holds 2200 units while the same sized Oxygen tank holds 486496 units of O2.

An equivalent mass/size tank of monoprop is only 375 units.

At the moment, the calculation is based on an "arbitrary" base factor of 0.0015 ec per unit, which can be altered in Settings. Units are KSP based and do not take into account, density, volume, etc. I'm discussing the possibility of adding a new module I'll call ModuleXferPump, that could be configured for the resource it would be associated with. Using Module Manager these pumps could be added to a part and allow for complete customization of transfer characteristics.

I'm working with Yemo and his SETI balance mod to discuss the ramifications, and possible integration.

Edited by Papa_Joe
Link to post
Share on other sites
New Release:

Version 0.90.0_4.1.4.0 - Release 21 Mar, 2015 - More Control & Realism Tweaks Edition.

- New: Added Antenna control support.

- New: Added Light control support.

- New: Reworked Hatches, Solar Panels, Antennas and Lights into a single management window called Control

- New: Reworked Settings Window to behave the same as the Control Window. Tabbed sections for less scrolling :)

- New: Added Electrical cost for Resource Xfers in realism mode, based on Actual Flow Rate, and Cost per unit setting in config.

- New: Added Settings switch for Resource Xfer Electricl Cost in Realism. Turn off if you don't wan't THAT much realism :)

- New: Added support for vessel control state in realism mode. Resource transfers not possible when controlable = false.

Enjoy!

As always, let me know if you find any issues.

Have you tested antennas control with remote tech. Looks like it can't recognize RT modified antennas - the list is empty.

screenshot14.jpg

Also, basic undeployable solar panels is listed in solar panels control list and can be retracted and deployed with no effect.

screenshot13.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...