Imperial versus metric

[ZetaX]

He also got the units wrong, by the way. At least, last time I checked liters were not measured in meters...

[Azivegu]

Erm... what? 1l = 10^-3 m^3, not 0.1*10^3m

derp... You are right. Now I feel silly, but it remains pretty much the same which is what I think is strange.

and @ZetaX: I was using liters in cubic meters

[Azivegu]

The French Revolution attempted to impose a rational calendar called the Republican Calendar. It was used officially for 12 years before being abandoned and it included decimal time with 10 hour days and 100 minutes per hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar

Also, the system of time we use isnt completly out of whack. It is based on a circle with 60 minutes is 360 degrees. You can also easily divide 60 by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 and 60.

[Camacha]

At least, last time I checked liters were not measured in meters...

They pretty much are, as a liter can be thought of as a volume of 10 x 10 x 10 centimeter, or 0,1 x 0,1 x 0,1 meter. The kilogram is derived from this, as a liter of water weighs ~1 kg.

[ZetaX]

O rly! That's still not the same as saying a liters is x meters. You haven't looked at the relevant post at all, did you¿

[ecat]

Also, the system of time we use isnt completly out of whack. It is based on a circle with 60 minutes is 360 degrees. You can also easily divide 60 by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 and 60.

We have a winner

The same also applies to 120 (or 12 * 10), 180 and 360 all vs the metric 'good for calculators and computers but a bit rubbish for pencil and paper' multipliers of 10,100,1000. Also, many practical examples of imperial based dimensions use fractional notation as opposed to our friend the decimal point... With a little practice, mental arithmetic using fractions is much more simple and far less prone to error than all the new, fangled decimal stuff.

Where imperial falls down are the arbitrary looking associations eg inches to feet to yards to miles (furlongs any one?), even then, 3 feet to yard sounds odd but that makes 36 inches and the magical divisors apply once more.

Edited December 30, 2013 by ecat

[Camacha]

You could of course use fractional notations with metric units too.

[Albert VDS]

It would be a lot simpler if you change from 10 base system to a 12 base system.

[Nibb31]

A liter (of water) has an equivalence in cubic meters, not meters.

1 ton = 1 cubic meter = 1000 liters is great for estimating ballpark values and is the biggest advantage of the metric system. It's also really handy in the kitchen for measuring ingredients when you have a measuring glass and no scales (or vice versa) to know that 10cl ~ 100g.

You simply can't visualize equivalences like that in imperial units.

The 360 degree circle (from which our time system derives) was invented by the babylonians who used base 60 mathematics for the above mentioned reasons. The babylonians were aware of the specific relationship of the hexagon with the circle, therefore it was quite natural to divide the circle in 6*60 = 360 degrees.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nibb31

[ecat]

It would be a lot simpler if you change from 10 base system to a 12 base system.

10 is indeed a rubbish number.

I always thought it interesting that in English we count all the way to 12 before changing up the base: 12 is 'twelve', 13 is 'thirteen' is 3 + 10. It's as if the basic divisors were built into the language at a very early age.

The French language implies a similar system at work but I don't know if they ever took advantage of it in practice. All the way to the divisible 16 which is 'seize' before switching to 17 which is 'dix-sept' which is of course 7 + 10.

Anyway, units are only really useful for communicating ideas and have of course no effect on the quantity being measured. An example I feel we can all relate too: Using cubits to measure the dead body on the kitchen table does not make it any easier to dispose of.

[ZetaX]

But using meters makes it easier to order useful tools for that online ;-)

[PakledHostage]

While I grew up in Canada post metrication and I prefer using SI units for many of the same reasons that have already been mentioned by others, there is still one non SI unit of measurement that I cling to: The nautical mile.

IIRC, the kilometer was initially defined by the French as one 10 000 th the distance between the north pole and the equator on a meridian running through Paris. That definition probably went hand-in-hand with the contemporary definition of the metric degree as 100 degrees of arc in a quarter circle. The metric degree was abandoned almost as soon as it was defined, however, and we reverted to 90 degrees of arc in a quarter circle and 60 minutes of arc in a degree. The nautical mile is therefore very intuitive when navigating around the globe because a nautical mile is conveniently defined as a minute of arc of latitude^*.

^*Before anyone gets picky, I realise that the nautical mile isn't always EXACTLY a minute of arc of latitude. It is actually a bit more complicated than that. Such is the way with standards... There are various definitions of the nautical mile with esoteric differences between them. They are all, near as makes no difference, equal to 1 minute of arc of latitude.

[ZedNova]

I use the metric system where i can, although not very often considering everything non-scientific in the US is measured in Miles, pounds, ect. If the US switched to the metric system i'd be ready for it.

Using the imperial system for math and whatnot is second nature to me, although i realize that using the metric system would make larger numbers vastly easier to calculate when it comes to things like distance and weight.

I don't think most of the people living in the US would like to switch over to metric, and i'm not sure it's a viable option at this time.

Edited December 30, 2013 by ZedNova

[Simon Ross]

Certainly in the UK, all engineering is now conducted in metric quantities, however, everyday life is still dominated by the usage of imperial terms. Ask someone their weight, they are unlikely to answer in kilograms but rather pounds and ounces

[Woopert]

The metric system makes more sense (to me) and I am American. I still cant't grasp Celsius though (hard to interpret when you're used to Fahrenheit). Basically, I try to use metric for distance and volume but for temperature I stick with Fahrenheit.

[astropapi1]

Ask someone their weight, they are unlikely to answer in kilograms but rather pounds and ounces

Shouldn't they answer in Newtons?

[asmi]

O rly! That's still not the same as saying a liters is x meters. You haven't looked at the relevant post at all, did you¿

A "scientific" name for liter is cubic decimeter (dm^3). One decimeter is 0.1 meter, as such 1 dm^3 = (0.1)^3 m^3 = 0.001 m^3. Metric system IS beautiful, isn't it?

[asmi]

Well, I grew up in the states and then moved to the Netherlands, so I have had the best of both worlds. Because I want to be a creature of logic metric was the way to go for me. Whenever I am in the US on vacation, I usually try not to think about measurements too much, because that is when I start to get confused.

Also, as has been pointed out a few times, there are deviations between English and American measurements.

I'm in exact opposite situation - having grown up and graduated in metric country and then moved to Canada, which is officially metric, but it uses imperial units a lot in common life. Even though I live there for over 6 years now, I still can't grasp imperial units on intuitive sense and always convert them to metric before I can make any sense of numbers.

[ZetaX]

A "scientific" name for liter is cubic decimeter (dm^3). One decimeter is 0.1 meter, as such 1 dm^3 = (0.1)^3 m^3 = 0.001 m^3. Metric system IS beautiful, isn't it?

So, umm, what do you want to say by that¿

[peadar1987]

People can use whatever they want in their daily lives, whatever they're intuitively more comfortable with. However, metric makes infinitely more sense for doing any sort of engineering or scientific calculation. SI units are defined in terms of each other, except for the metre, the second, and the kilogram. Everything else follows from these. In the metric system, force is mass by acceleration, for example. In imperial, it is mass by acceleration by a constant. You do any sort of complex calculation, the constants start to stack up, and there is a hell of a lot to remember, and a lot of potential for mistakes.

[sjwt]

A "scientific" name for liter is cubic decimeter (dm^3). One decimeter is 0.1 meter, as such 1 dm^3 = (0.1)^3 m^3 = 0.001 m^3. Metric system IS beautiful, isn't it?

If you want beauty in the metric system, look up the paper sizes, see how they solved that one, its fantastic!

[lajoswinkler]

The metric system makes more sense (to me) and I am American. I still cant't grasp Celsius though (hard to interpret when you're used to Fahrenheit). Basically, I try to use metric for distance and volume but for temperature I stick with Fahrenheit.

That's just because you're used to it, but Celsius is obviously more logical. Water freezes - zero degrees. Water boils, 100 degrees. It's somewhat intuitive because water is a very common compound in our lives. Cold - not a lot of energy - zero. Hot, lots of energy, a hundred.

I really don't understand what the hell did Fahrenheit was thinking when he was making his scale. It's as he tried to make the most counter-intuitive scale ever and complicate things instead of simplifying them.

As someone from a country that has a long history of using Celsius scale, I do think it would be more painful to switch from Celsius to Fahrenheit than the other way around. Fahrenheit system just baffles me and it seems so stupid to me.

Regarding the "beauty" of the imperial system, I suggest everyone to look at this video.

[Nibb31]

If you want beauty in the metric system, look up the paper sizes, see how they solved that one, its fantastic!

I agree with this, the ISO paper formats are beautiful. Take a standard A4 sheet of paper, fold it in two, and you get a standard A5 format, with exactly the same proportions. Two A4 sheets form an A3 sheet, also with the same proportion. You can't do this with US paper formats.

[iDan122]

Metric rules! First metric is used in many sciences, second metric is the SI(sisteme international), the international measurement system proposed by the French and it is used by the whole world. Imperial wouldn't have existed without metric and metric makes a lot more sense than imperial as seen in the graph in the OP.

Finally, KSP uses metric too because astronomy must use metric. All spacecraft uses metric, NASA, ESA, JAXA etc. all use metric. Last time each tried using their system resulted in the great fail of engineering the Hubble.

[mdatspace]

Metric rules! First metric is used in many sciences, second metric is the SI(sisteme international), the international measurement system proposed by the French and it is used by the whole world. Imperial wouldn't have existed without metric and metric makes a lot more sense than imperial as seen in the graph in the OP.

Finally, KSP uses metric too because astronomy must use metric. All spacecraft uses metric, NASA, ESA, JAXA etc. all use metric. Last time each tried using their system resulted in the great fail of engineering the Hubble.

While hubble had a development plagued with issues and poor management, to call it a great fail is wrong.