[1.8-1.9] Modular Fuel Tanks v5.13.1

[Roberius]

Oky, so a clean install with just MFT, Stretchy SRB and Tals Spherical and Hyperedit. I think the yellow lines is Hyperedit or some odd conjunction of something, i had weird camera issues again, and it shot off after SOI change as before. I noticed the same issues as I mucked about with the orbits in hyperedit. Donziboy2, do you have hyperedit installed?

The service tank issue seems to be with symmetrically attached tanks not holding the set values of the parent part. The parent tank is also the only tank accessible in the part group manager. The rest default back to their "default" values.

Here's the .craft for the ship i used.

http://www./download/z86cz2kurr8uifn

[taniwha]

Roberius: ah, ok, symmetry sounds like a good path to follow in this hunt.

Also, after my experiences with Orbital Construction Redux (it happily mangled my struts and fuel-lines (on already existing ships!!!) whenever I built something), I am forced to cast a wary eye towards hyperedit. That's actually the biggest reason I put orbital construction into EL: to avoid anything resembling hyperedit.

[taniwha]

Roberius: THANK YOU!!! it was indeed symmetry. I've successfully reproduced the problem (didn't need to change SoI, even).

[Donziboy2]

Oky, so a clean install with just MFT, Stretchy SRB and Tals Spherical and Hyperedit. I think the yellow lines is Hyperedit or some odd conjunction of something, i had weird camera issues again, and it shot off after SOI change as before. I noticed the same issues as I mucked about with the orbits in hyperedit. Donziboy2, do you have hyperedit installed?

The service tank issue seems to be with symmetrically attached tanks not holding the set values of the parent part. The parent tank is also the only tank accessible in the part group manager. The rest default back to their "default" values.

Here's the .craft for the ship i used.

http://www./download/z86cz2kurr8uifn

The yellow line is a fuel line....

I built my craft using VAB and SPH modes. I have hyperedit installed, I did not use it for the first bug, but I did send a second craft up with hyperedit and as soon as I went from Kerbin SOI to Minmus SOI it happened.

taniwha, I was unsure what mod caused it, but the last three mods I installed where EL, Spherical and MFT. I checked the threads for all the other mods I have installed and noone else reported similar issues, thats why I posted here.

Edit..

Removed the fuel lines from craft and it bugged out once I entered Minmus SOI, the camera kept shifting to one side of the craft. After a few minutes I had to zoom out pretty far to see the craft.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Donziboy2

[evilphish]

Hmmm now that you mention it I think all crafts that bugged out for me had extra fuel tanks attached to the main one via symmetry.

[ddavis425]

What's the difference between this and Real Fuels? I've read through the thread but I don't really see any explanations.

[Talisar]

This mod does the same thing as realfuels, but is for the stock (and stockish) resources rather than their real-world counterparts.

[NathanKell]

Real Fuels also reworks engines (and, to a lesser extent, RCS) quite drastically, and uses realworld SI units.

[taniwha]

Some good news: I have found and fixed the problem causing the full tanks that were supposed to be empty. The fix will be in the next update, which will hopefully be soon as I am hot on the trail of the borked-tanks bug

In regards to the latter, I have found the smoke from the gun, the smoke having been hidden behind a try/catch veil , but I still need to find the root cause.

[Surefoot]

@taniwha: i'd bring you some coffee but it would be cold by the time i get there. In the meantime: i think there's a common bug with RealFuels where engine thrust becomes erratic (and gets worse upon POV switch), i posted quickly a report in the RF thread but actually i'm using MFT with stock fuels - have got the same issue. Maybe it's thrust, maybe it's something else, i get really weird behaviours there with my ships spinning madly whereas they are perfectly balanced, and mechjeb's SmartASS not seeing any spin..

[Talisar]

This sounds like it may be the same issue as the "borked tank bug" that taniwha was referring to. Do your ships work fine when first launched, but start acting erratically after a save and reload (switching to another ship and coming back or reverting the flight to the launchpad counts too)? Also, do the ships that you are having problems with have MFT enabled tanks placed using symmetry mode in the VAB?

[Surefoot]

This sounds like it may be the same issue as the "borked tank bug" that taniwha was referring to. Do your ships work fine when first launched, but start acting erratically after a save and reload (switching to another ship and coming back or reverting the flight to the launchpad counts too)?

Yes exactly, that was what i was referring to when saying "POV switch". They become totally unbalanced.

Also, do the ships that you are having problems with have MFT enabled tanks placed using symmetry mode in the VAB?

Yes, precisely.

[taniwha]

I've released v4.1 of MFT. Download and source links, and license info in the first post.

• Allow tank amounts to be set to 0. This fixes the problem with non-fillable tanks (eg, Kethane).
  
• Blank fields no longer reset to the previous amount and are treated as 0 when updating.
  
• Overfull tanks now display the available volume in red.
  
• Tanks placed using symmetry no longer invite the kraken (no more ship flying apart but still connected via fuel-lines)
  
• Source code removed from the distribution zip.
  

[Surefoot]

Whoohoo I'll test that first thing tomorrow morning, now i need some sleep.. Good news !

[katalex-3]

Can you cut the number of digits after the decimal point in value mass and quantity?

[taniwha]

katalex-3: in the inputs, not really. For the information displays: maybe, but not now. I have bigger fish to fry.

[Donziboy2]

Nice!

Btw taniwha you have the 1.5.5 Module Manager dll, there is a 1.5.6 for 0.23.

[taniwha]

Donziboy2: *sigh*, I knew I should have checked for a new one . Ah well.

[Surefoot]

[*] Tanks placed using symmetry no longer invite the kraken (no more ship flying apart but still connected via fuel-lines)

Tested extensively: seems the kraken is gone, but the ship is still unbalanced after a reload (goes off one side for no reason, or even rotates around Z axis ..).

[taniwha]

Tested extensively: seems the kraken is gone, but the ship is still unbalanced after a reload (goes off one side for no reason, or even rotates around Z axis ..).

Z axis being... pitch? yaw? roll? I come from a Quake background and thus find KSP/Unity rather confusing. I had no trouble with my little test ship, but the symmetry placed tanks were all full. Please check the fuel levels in your tanks and let me know if that's the source of your imbalance (assuming there's a bug here, I imagine it will be in either the resource quantities or or the tank masses).

[Surefoot]

My tanks are all full.

The test ship has 8x stretchy 2.5m tanks radially attached to a central 5m stretchy tank. All are using MFS with stock fuels, everything is full (and just in case i use TAC fuel balancer, but that is not in use for my little test here). There is zero wobble as i use both superstrong struts (from Novapunch) and KJR.

To them are attached 8 nuke engines, i tried with NERVA's and FTmN nukes. Also my lander which has 4x 2.5m pods is now spiralling to death, whereas i have been to many places with it previously..

I see 2 rotations induced by firing up the engines: one in roll (immediate), and one in yaw (more progressive but still very large in the end).

This happens on ships that used to fly straight, and on new designs just the same.

If you want i can create a ship file with stock parts (or any mod you have) that exhibits clearly this issue ? To make a quick test you can create a similar design, hyperedit it in orbit, do a first test (usually flies straight), then go back to space port and back to the ship, then it doesnt fly straight anymore...

Also, unrelated, i noticed the LF/Ox ratio is not the same as stock tanks ? When i create a stretchy tank of the same size as a stock one i end up with less LF and more Ox: is that related to MFS or stretchies ?

Edited January 5, 2014 by Surefoot

[taniwha]

Ah, this might be a stretchytank issue. I tested with stock tanks. Still, I will have to check tank masses and exact resource quantities.

Normally, you will get only pitch and yaw from imbalance. Roll would come from angled thrust, which implies a bit of twisting in the hull.

[Surefoot]

I have the issue with stock, KW tanks, and B9 tanks too.

Again, these ships fly perfectly at first. One of them comes from v0.22 and has been doing a Grand Tour... i can tell it flies straight, but not anymore. Uses 4x symmetry with B9 tanks.

Swapped the engines, same issue. That's why i'm reducing the potential soures to MFT, as it's one of the few changes (with tweakables) to v0.23 that might have affected my ships.

(edit) doing more tests with stock parts.. Glitch is not always affecting the ship immediately. Seems i have to dock 2 ships together to exhibit the problem fully... Also some side note, i dont have the 45%-55% LF+Ox button anymore on any tank.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Surefoot

[taniwha]

Ok, well, no symmetry doesn't seem to trigger this. I thought I was having some problems, but it turned out I had FAR's wing leveler turned on... in Mun orbit

Still, I'll keep my eyes open.

[Surefoot]

Ok, well, no symmetry doesn't seem to trigger this. I thought I was having some problems, but it turned out I had FAR's wing leveler turned on... in Mun orbit

Happens to the best of us XD And yeah a straight engine (even a cluster) will not trigger the issue.

Still, I'll keep my eyes open.

Yeah i just did a lot of tests and it's pretty noticeable with Mechjeb's node execution. Do a significant burn with a symmetric tank+engine configuration with MJ, you'll notice that the burn is slightly off (in the best of cases), and when you're about 2m/s left or so, the node target starts escaping and the ship just flips like a dog chasing its tail. Or just turn on SAS and point at prograde (or with SmartASS) you'll notice with a full burn the ship slightly veers on one side. Then it gets worse upon reload, but it seems pretty random... I'm now back with full stretchytanks, i managed to mitigate the issue with an over-engineered setup, but it's not satisfying... I am trying to do a full Eve lander setup and there any off-axis thrust becomes quickly lethal.

Or maybe it's KJR acting up, we'd have to PM Ferram to see if he can see the issue.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Surefoot