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[1.8-1.9] Modular Fuel Tanks v5.13.1

taniwha

By taniwha
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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swamp_ig

swamp_ig

Posted
Posted
First off, love the new GUI change, makes it way easier to work with.

I did find a minor bug, which may be indicative of a larger issue but can't be sure. Using KSPI's DT Vista engine, if you add stock or spherical fuel tanks ahead of it, remove all included tanks and add a pure liquid fuel tank, on transfer to the launchpad from the VAB those tanks also get an extra oxidizer tank added that exceeds limits, and it breaks the clickability of the tank. Should be noted that I have the 3.75 stock decoupler after the DT Vista and then a LF/OX booster to get the thing to orbit.

What tank are you using? Does the tank have any RESOURCE sections in the config that are normally managed by RF? You need to delete any resources ( MM something like -RESOURCE[*] { } ) for your tanks that you want to use with RF when you're patching them with MM.

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MrWizerd

MrWizerd

Posted
Posted (edited)
So it was working fine with my patched version of RF, but not anymore? That's odd. There wasn't a huge amount of change between.

Any exceptions in your log?

You aren't ending up with duplicate resources?

Edit: The below reply might apply to you too. The only big change between my latest patch, and the released RF, is that only resources managed by RF are cleared from the tank, rather than everything.

I believe that it did but not 100% sure, when I tried to use your dll add on, it didn't work THIS time, but I am not 100% sure that it was that file, because I was unable to re-download it.

As for what tanks are being used, I am applying these cfg's to several tankstypes accross the board, as well as having had added a kethane type tank, and was about to add Ore, Metal, Ship Parts to try to add them to MFT. Now I don't know what is in the tanks, in terms of RealFuels, and I will have to apologize for my ignorance but I don't know exactly what you mean by removing the resources... as I think of it, in my mind, it would defeat the purpose of being able to add those types to the tanks if I remove them from the tanks afterwards. I will be the first to stand up and grant that I know very little and am basically talking out of my arse, but thats what happens when you have limited knowledge about something LOL. That being said, I would be willing to do anything to have you help educate me, I can be made available via a phone call ( I have Vonage and can call most places free), Skype, live chat, I even have team viewer to be able to share desktops so you can show me in real time what your speaking of. Also, while I am not swimming in funds, I can even donate a six pack of your favorite beverage to your coding cause. If you install MFT and KSPI you can test my cfg files.

I know that RF has split from MFT, and I don't want to cause more work, or clashes of any type but I am in desperate need of reducing models and textures I am running at the lowest possible mesh density AND running maximum compression and still am at the 4g barrier. So, it is one of the many reasons I am doing this, I am also gearing this setup up to come to an attempt at talking to the various mod designers to come up with a standard for fuel to resource ratio of the different types especially water as the two waters are disparagingly different and I would like to make water the same as other waters unless its of the actual heavy type if you know what I mean. So any help you can come up with would be great, if the cfg's above can be modified the way you stated, I would be elated. But any help you can give I will try to reward to the tune of ten fold.

Thanks again!

Thanks again Swamp_ig, I should have a cfg or two to work this out posted by 5pm pst. so that people who have this same problem can counter it.

Edited by MrWizerd
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Rampart

Rampart

Posted
Posted
Ok before anyone else reports it - I'm aware that when you go to flight mode from the VAB you get 'phantom tanks' added.

Will have a fix for this soon.

I think this was my problem, good to hear :)

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rosenkranz

rosenkranz

Posted
Posted
Ok before anyone else reports it - I'm aware that when you go to flight mode from the VAB you get 'phantom tanks' added.

Will have a fix for this soon.

Cool, I've been trying to figure this out for a bit now. My work around in the mean time is to had tanks for the original contents but set the capacity at .1

It'll take that and stick. Then add whatever I was going to replace them with.

Glad to know you're on it.

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AccidentalDisassembly

AccidentalDisassembly

Posted
Posted (edited)

So let me preface this by saying I don't know whether this is a TweakScale problem or an MFT problem or even solvable, but I thought maybe someone here could shed some light on this since I think MFT is really useful and TweakScale too - and they're not playing nicely together!

Basically, the combination of TweakScale (1.19) and MFT (5.0.1) (with only those two and Engineer installed) causes funny things to happen with the mass of TweakScaled parts when you change tanks using MFT. This occurs under these circumstances:

1. Put a part in the VAB

2. TweakScale it to a different size

3. THEN use MFT to alter that part's tanks in any way - the new mass of the part will be what seems to be twice the mass of what only the fuel ought to contribute.

4. I *think* this is only because the dry mass of the part is weird; the actual amount of fuel/xenon/charge/whatever in the tank seems to be right.

This does NOT appear to happen if you change the part's tanks first with MFT and then scale it using TweakScale.

Example: A Rockomax X200 scaled to 5m should have exactly 4x the fuel (and overall 4x the mass) of a Rockomax Jumbo-64. All values correct if simply placed and scaled, or if placed, then edited, then scaled.

When the X200 is scaled and MFT is used to alter the tanks it contains after this scaling, the new mass of the part becomes (if I remember right) 128 tons dry, PLUS 128 tons of fuel. The fuel should indeed weigh 128 tons, but the part's dry mass ought to be only 4x the dry mass of the Jumbo-64 (or 16 tons, I think).

So there's at least some weird interaction between MFT and TweakScale re: the mass of parts when MFT updates the part, but is this something that could be addressed on the MFT side of things? Or not at all? I posted something similar in the TweakScale thread too.

Edited by AccidentalDisassembly
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MrWizerd

MrWizerd

Posted
Posted

Did you also copy module manager over? You need to have both in your gamedata folder, then you can right click on any tank that has a MFT cfg written for it and change the resource it holds by opening the tank gui.

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Bomoo

Bomoo

Posted
Posted
Did you also copy module manager over? You need to have both in your gamedata folder, then you can right click on any tank that has a MFT cfg written for it and change the resource it holds.

Yeah, that was it. Apologies, guys. Was about to delete my post but you'd already replied.

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AccidentalDisassembly

AccidentalDisassembly

Posted
Posted
Tweakscale and MFT won't really play nicely together.

Maybe you could use ProceduralParts for your rescalable tanks?

Yeah, have done that to some extent, and it works. Just liked the idea of mucking around with tanks and being able to scale before/after the fact, like with LLL tanks. Obviously not the end of the world, but maybe in some fantasy future they can get along... a man can dream. :)

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MrWizerd

MrWizerd

Posted
Posted

I spoke with the guy taking care of Tweakscale and he has not checked compatibility for MFT 5.* you may want to send him a message directly, he is on vacation right now, but is very willing to help. Biotronic is pretty cool and I am sure he will fix it if you give him a message. That link will bring you to his tweakscale page to message him.

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AccidentalDisassembly

AccidentalDisassembly

Posted
Posted
I spoke with the guy taking care of Tweakscale and he has not checked compatibility for MFT 5.* you may want to send him a message directly, he is on vacation right now, but is very willing to help. Biotronic is pretty cool and I am sure he will fix it if you give him a message. That link will bring you to his tweakscale page to message him.

I did plop a message in his thread - not sure if he saw it, but hopefully he will. But I suspect it's a problem with MFT and not TweakScale: I don't know how each work, really, so I could be completely wrong, but TweakScale correctly updates all values for the part so long as you FIRST configure that part with MFT (mix & match your tanks while it's at original size) and then scale it afterward. But when you use MFT to alter tanks in a part that has already been tweakscaled, the whole thing goes crazy and appears to cause the dry mass of the tank to become related to the mass of the resource in it (I think, I am just supposing some things). So it appears that it is MFT updating numbers for a tweaked tank that creates weirdness, not TweakScale updating numbers for a tank that has been MFT'd, if that makes sense.

When you use MFT to modify tanks on a part that has previously been tweakscaled to 2x its normal radius (so 8x the volume, I guess), the dry mass of the tank becomes equal to the mass of the resources now in the tank. Actual resources in the tank are correct, dry mass of the tank is not. So when MFT is updating the tanks, this happens:

Original part: .5t dry, 4.5t wet. (4 tons of fuel)

Scale it to 2x radius, so 8x volume: there should be 32 tons of fuel (8x4). There ARE 32 tons of fuel, so MFT is correctly measuring (I guess?) the new volume of the tank. But now there are also 32 tons of dry mass, so the whole tank weighs 64 tons. I don't know where the 32 number is coming from, since it should be simply 8x the original dry weight, or 4 tons.

But again, I don't know how these mods work at all, so that's why I posted in both threads (and because appearances suggest something going on with MFT).

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Biotronic

Biotronic

Posted
Posted

There is a bug in TweakScale that sirkut just made me aware of, where the mass is scaled improperly. I haven't looked into the what problems it actually causes, but I will, as soon as I get back from vacation. I've probably fixed the bug in the latest commit, but I'm unable to test under the circumstances, so you'll just have to wait. :(

Oh, and that means monday. Possibly sunday if I can't sleep.

[edit]Thinking a bit more, these two are probably unrelated. Still, I will probably be able to fix things by monday.[/edit]

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MrWizerd

MrWizerd

Posted
Posted
Is modular fuel tanks the better alternative to real fuels if you are playing stock KSP?

I'm not sure I understand the difference.

If your playing stock yes, it will allow you to put all the different stock fuels in your tanks. So instead of holding say Liquid Fuel and Oxidizer in a large fuel tank you can put Monopropellent in or xenon, or whatever.

Real fuels changes what fuels are used to real world equivalents. It is more about making Kerbal Space Program more like a real life simulation. So the fuels are real world counterparts instead of calling it say liquid fuel it is actually called what it would be for a particular simulated real life engine.

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Dr. Jet

Dr. Jet

Posted
Posted

Where did the autofill button go? It still do work fine in RealFuels, but I can't see it in MFT.

I put the engine under the tank, then I press "Remove all tanks" to empty the tank, then add a small bit of monopropellant to it, then I expect to see the autofill button for "LOx 9:11" mixture, but it is not there!

Is it a bug or bug-like feature or I messed up something?

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