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[1.8+] Real Fuels

NathanKell

By NathanKell
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Guest

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Yes. Home now, so that's coming soon.

Can't wait. :) I was putting off playing RSS because of this. You should probably talk to Nazari about making fuel-specific effects. Turns out that if the configs work like they always did for ModuleEnginesFX, then making effects change with fuel type should be trivial.

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Shad0wCatcher

Shad0wCatcher

Posted
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Really weird question that is sort of tangential to this mod: Does anyone know if MethaLOx would be remotely usable as a nuclear propellant or would it be too energetic and disruptive/destructive to the reaction chamber? My google search-fu is weak and didn't really turn up anything "NTR Methalox" without the quotes. If it is (a valid fuel) would it be remotely possible to add it in (down the line of course)? My thinkng is thus: in-situ refueling of heavy stages that could use the extra thrust as opposed to straight Methane but still higher fuel density than HydroLOx.

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Raptor831

Raptor831

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Does anyone have either configs for the stock jet engines to play with Real Fuels, or the conversions needed to switch them from LiquidFuel to Kerosene (or JP-5, or whatever)? I looked around the thread and searched with Google but came up empty.

I'm using Real Fuels without RSS or the Realism Overhaul, so I'd like to use the stock parts if I can. The B9 turbofans are left out as well, so if I can either snag or whip up some configs for those it'd be nice as well.

Or could I just pull the fuel ratios from the Realism downloads and skip the weight/size changes?

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cardgame

cardgame

Posted
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The GUI is barely functional for me, on OSX. I can't type anything into it, which isn't a big deal, but I also can't scroll or move the window or anything. This limits me to using only two fuel types, since the third option never shows up - only a scroll bar. Any ideas?

OSX 10.9

Latest versions of everything in RO, just installed yesterday

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NathanKell

NathanKell

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Shad0wCatcher: LCH4 NTR is already pretty high thrust; I'm not sure you'd need to burn LOx. But I can't imagine methalox would be higher-temperature than hydrolox (which you have to burn way fuel-rich because a near-stoich ratio is too hot).

Raptor831: I'm sorry, I don't know of any configs yet. I've been meaning to add spaceplane support to RF/RO for a while but .23 and the massive work put into making RF .23-compatible scotched that for some time. For now, I'd suggest just whipping up a simple patch that replaces LF with Kerosene for those engines, although even if you don't the only downside is your LF will be ~22% denser than kerosene so you can carry slightly more.

Techlevels notionally support changing velocityCurves, but that's not actually config'd yet. You can try making techlevels for jets if you like, but you'll have to use the new form.

Aghanim: sounds like you haven't installed a set of engine configs. Check the second post of this thread.

brooklyn666: Right now you can either have faked-up bipropellant RCS, *or* you can have modular/techlevel RCS, not both. We need to make a new RCS module, really.

cardgame: That sounds very strange; I'm pretty sure some people have no trouble with RF on Macs (heck, ialdabaoth who first created Modular Fuel Tanks uses a Mac!) so my hunch is it's an install error. Make sure you don't have a ModularFuelTanks folder in GameData and that there's only one Module Manager dll *anywhere* in GameData. If that fails, post your output_log (which is, IIRC, stuck in some other folder on the Mac...)

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cardgame

cardgame

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Only one module manager in gamedata. one MFT .dll under RF plugins, but no folder – I've never messed with MFT.

Immovable ingame window

aO4NhJh.png

This works fine for premixes as long as I use two, no scrollbar, still immovable though. When I use three (as shown here; kerolox and alcohol are used, while a different mix is needed for the british engine on the bottom) this happens.

I looked through my ksp.log and saw nothing unusual to my layman eyes, except this, when loading KSP

[LOG 23:41:24.860] The SpaceNavigator driver is a Windows-Only feature at the moment.

and this when opening the VAB

[WRN 23:43:52.407] [HighLogic]: =========================== Scene Change : From SPACECENTER to EDITOR =====================

[EXC 23:43:53.013] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

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Chestburster

Chestburster

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Does anyone have either configs for the stock jet engines to play with Real Fuels, or the conversions needed to switch them from LiquidFuel to Kerosene (or JP-5, or whatever)? I looked around the thread and searched with Google but came up empty.

I'm using Real Fuels without RSS or the Realism Overhaul, so I'd like to use the stock parts if I can. The B9 turbofans are left out as well, so if I can either snag or whip up some configs for those it'd be nice as well.

Or could I just pull the fuel ratios from the Realism downloads and skip the weight/size changes?

I'm using this config for said purpose

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]],HAS[@PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]]:Final
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
		{
			@name = Kerosene
		}
	}
}

Applies to all engines using IntakeAir.

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Raptor831

Raptor831

Posted
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I'm using this config for said purpose

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]],HAS[@PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]]:Final
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
		{
			@name = Kerosene
		}
	}
}

Applies to all engines using IntakeAir.

That...is much better than the config I used! Sometimes I forget to really leverage MM, and just adjust each part individually...

I've been setting up RF (stock configs) on my install, and noticed some of the included configs are broken/out of date. Specifically the KSP Interstellar and the FTmN Nuclear pack. The FTmN pack changed part names, possibly, and the KSPI pack had some tanks that didn't get picked up. If anyone wants to use them, they are here: http://cl.ly/250L1B193j3i

@NathanKell Thanks for your spreadsheet, as well. I've been making some custom configs for SpaceX-ish parts (Merlin 1D and SuperDraco) and it's been quite fun arranging the stats to fit with the stock-alike feel.

I might take a stab at tech levels for the jets. Do I just need to set up a ModuleEngineConfig for each engine and assign starting tech levels, and the plugin will take care of the ISP/thrust increase?

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Scripto23

Scripto23

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Posted
That...is much better than the config I used! Sometimes I forget to really leverage MM, and just adjust each part individually...

I've been setting up RF (stock configs) on my install, and noticed some of the included configs are broken/out of date. Specifically the KSP Interstellar and the FTmN Nuclear pack. The FTmN pack changed part names, possibly, and the KSPI pack had some tanks that didn't get picked up. If anyone wants to use them, they are here: http://cl.ly/250L1B193j3i

@NathanKell Thanks for your spreadsheet, as well. I've been making some custom configs for SpaceX-ish parts (Merlin 1D and SuperDraco) and it's been quite fun arranging the stats to fit with the stock-alike feel.

I might take a stab at tech levels for the jets. Do I just need to set up a ModuleEngineConfig for each engine and assign starting tech levels, and the plugin will take care of the ISP/thrust increase?

I believe FTmN switched to the the newer ModuleEnginesFX which Real Fuels doesn't yet support, which is why it hasn't been updated. Also if you're looking for SpaceX parts/engines check the link in my sig (and since you mentioned researching those parts if you find a discrepancy with the numbers there and real life ones let me know).

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NeonEagle

NeonEagle

Posted
Posted

Howdy!

I'm sure this isn't the place to post but I can't seem to find a forum on Jack's RealEngines, maybe someone could point me there?

I'm having issues with some of the engines where they show the same min/max thrust and I can't seem to figure out where I went wrong. There is also a duplicate set of engine names, same descriptions and ISP's but different pictures/thrusts. I'm not sure about this one, but some of the engines seem oddly sized as well. Anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks :)

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Raptor831

Raptor831

Posted
Posted
I believe FTmN switched to the the newer ModuleEnginesFX which Real Fuels doesn't yet support, which is why it hasn't been updated. Also if you're looking for SpaceX parts/engines check the link in my sig (and since you mentioned researching those parts if you find a discrepancy with the numbers there and real life ones let me know).

Blast! I didn't even notice that about FTmN engines. I'll just change them to use appropriate fuels for now. I also don't seem to have the RAM ceiling to run LazTek's SpaceX stuff (though I do really like it!). I used AIES Galaxy engine for the Merlin and the LLL small radial with a rescale for the SuperDraco. Works for me, and no extra part packs to load.

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cardgame

cardgame

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK, found the full player.log after a bit of confusion

[HighLogic]: =========================== Scene Change : From SPACECENTER to EDITOR =====================

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at EngineerToolbar.EngineerToolbar.SetButtonVisibility (Boolean visible) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EngineerToolbar.EngineerToolbar.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

UnloadTime: 7.647984 ms
Unloading 2 Unused Serialized files (Serialized files now loaded: 0 / Dirty serialized files: 0)

Unloading 1660 unused Assets to reduce memory usage. Loaded Objects now: 118537.
Total: 208.275467 ms (FindLiveObjects: 5.807128 ms CreateObjectMapping: 1.970187 ms MarkObjects: 197.366196 ms  DeleteObjects: 3.079227 ms)

Possible incompatibility between RF GUI and KER or the toolbar?

EDIT: Fixed! User error from manually updating Toolbar to the latest version. Nuking the entire folder and .dat and starting from scratch fixed it.

I still can't move the action group window, but from testing it allowed 4 fuel types and remained a normal size, with plenty of room for more mixtures.

Edited by cardgame
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Starwaster

Starwaster

Posted
Posted

I still can't move the action group window, but from testing it allowed 4 fuel types and remained a normal size, with plenty of room for more mixtures.

It's never been movable. That's just the way it's designed, to take up the left side of the screen, just like the action group editor.

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cardgame

cardgame

Posted
Posted (edited)

re: movement: Okay then. It just seemed like it could be.

Update: it's back, with more problems and more exceptions; key and null

In addition to the broken gui (stuck at two fuels again) resizing a full tank to be smaller leaves 100% of the fuel inside, then tells me it's incapable of holding fuel when I go into the action group again. There were also symmetry problems; removing engines from one side of a bilateral stack only removed them from one side. The native staging GUI on the bottom right also only recognized a partial list of SRBs, though all worked on the launchpad.

gui code again

[HighLogic]: =========================== Scene Change : From SPACECENTER to EDITOR =====================

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at EngineerToolbar.EngineerToolbar.SetButtonVisibility (Boolean visible) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EngineerToolbar.EngineerToolbar.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

ferram problems? 


------------------- initializing editor mode... ------------------

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

editor started

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

Cannot find fx group of that name for decoupler

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

Cannot find fx group of that name for decoupler

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

High Sounder 06 loaded!

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

BuildEngineer: OnSave

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

High Sounder 06 - High Sounder 06

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

MonoMethod.Start

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

BuildEngineer: OnLoad

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

BuildEngineer: OnEditorAttach

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

BuildEngineer: Start (Editor)

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Component:InternalGetTransform ()
  at UnityEngine.Component.get_transform () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.CalculateSurfaceFunctions () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ferram4.FARControllableSurface.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

MonoMethod.SetupMarker

RF and symmetry?

deleting part radialDecoupler2(Clone)

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

Cannot find fx group of that name for decoupler

(Filename: /Applications/buildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/MacStandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary.
  at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[System.String,ConfigNode].get_Item (System.String key) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks.UsePrefab () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks.UsePrefab () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

it's a mess

do you want my entire log? Trying to excerpt so you don't have to deal with 10,000 lines of code.

Edited by cardgame
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Hodo

Hodo

Posted
Posted

Ok downloaded and installed and now I have a bunch of tanks with no fuel in them and no way to add fuel... what did I do wrong?

I can't add fuel at all.. anywhere... to anything.

Nevermind... stumbled into it... I am an idiot.

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