[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Briso]

One more question I am trying to play with real fuels and Launchers pack (SpaceX). I don't have half the engines from this mod and I can only choose one type of fuel in the tanks. No di configuration for this mod ?

[DJ Reonic]

31 minutes ago, Briso said:

One more question I am trying to play with real fuels and Launchers pack (SpaceX). I don't have half the engines from this mod and I can only choose one type of fuel in the tanks. No di configuration for this mod ?

It's a little more complicated if you want more than what the buttons give you. You have to go into the UI and manually input the amounts of each resource. Your best bet would be to leave the fuel for your main engine last. For example: for a Service Module, you would do your life support supplies first, then fuel for your engines/RCS using the buttons up top in the UI to fill out the rest of the tank.

[Battou]

On 08.02.2018 at 12:37 PM, JohnMcLane said:

ULLAGE AND LIMITED IGNITIONS

RealFuels now integrates limited ignitions and support for ullage and pressure-fed engines.

* To start an engine, you must have the resources it requires to start, and you must have ignitions remaining.

* If ullage is enabled for the engine, and your propellant stability is not "Very Stable", there is a chance that vapor can get in the feed lines and the engine will flame out. You will need to set the throttle to 0 to reset things, then stabilize your propellants. Some forward RCS thrust, or thrust from ullage motors like small SRBs (solids and RCS aren't subject to ullage issues) will do that. Then you can try throttling the engine up again to restart it.

* If the engine is pressure-fed, it requires highly-pressurized tanks (see above for tank descriptions). It will not ignite and run without such tanks.

New parameters in ModuleEnginesRF:

ullage: Whether ullage simulation is enabled. Defaults to false.

pressureFed: Whether the engine is pressure-fed. Defaults to false.

ignitions: the number of ignitions the engine has. Defaults to -1 (unlimited).

IGNITOR_RESOURCE nodes: If you specify limited ignitions, an engine will consume these resources when it ignites, and will fail to ignite (but still use up an ignition) if they are not available. name defines the resource name (like ElectricCharge) and amount defines the amount required (just like EngineIgnitor).

Note that if you used to configure Engine Ignitor per-CONFIG in RF, those configs are still compatible. You only need to worry about the above parameters if you don't have ModuleEngineIgnitor {} nodes in you CONFIG nodes.

 

So you need to put in your engine config ignitorresource:

  Reveal hidden contents

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEnginesFX
        configuration = F-1
        origMass = 8.391459
        modded = false
        CONFIG
        {
            (....)
            IGNITOR_RESOURCE
            {
                name = ElectricCharge
                amount = 0.5
            }
            IGNITOR_RESOURCE
            {
                name = TEATEB
                amount = 1    \\the amount of ignitions you want
            }
        }

 

Tryed to add this, no change ingame, still endless ignitions.(

[Briso]

I'm probably something did not understand, but it seems that the real fuel broke KSP!

https://gyazo.com/7d8ddf0627bacc1ac85a47f8120abd99

https://gyazo.com/00ae1876cd875b72b43eba733095e66e

Edited February 9, 2018 by Briso

[JohnMcLane]

2 hours ago, Battou said:

Tryed to add this, no change ingame, still endless ignitions.(

Without more, i cant help. Maybe post the cfg you wrote/added?!

[Cratzz]

2 hours ago, Briso said:

I'm probably something did not understand, but it seems that the real fuel broke KSP!

https://gyazo.com/7d8ddf0627bacc1ac85a47f8120abd99

https://gyazo.com/00ae1876cd875b72b43eba733095e66e

Instead post your .log file in a attachment if your serious about some help, and my advice is to keep 2 versions of KSP sinse how sensitive it is, and/or install just the base game with Real Fuels and it's dependencies and go from there. There is obviously something you haven't updated. Another advice is, when you update one mod, check too see if some of (again) it's dependencies have updates aswell, they usually coincide.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Cratzz

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, Cratzz said:

Instead post your .log file in a attachment if your serious about some help, and my advice is to keep 2 versions of KSP sinse how sensitive it is, and/or install just the base game with Real Fuels and it's dependencies and go from there. There is obviously something you haven't updated. Another advice is, when you update one mod, check too see if some of (again) it's dependencies have updates aswell, they usually coincide.

@Briso not just the log file, ModuleManager.ConfigCache too. And it looks more like you broke something or didn't install something properly or didn't install the right things than anything else.

[Battou]

18 hours ago, JohnMcLane said:

Without more, i cant help. Maybe post the cfg you wrote/added?!

PART
{
	name = setiLFOenginePomeranian
	module = Part
	author = Yemo
	rescaleFactor = 1
	node_stack_top = 0, 0.182, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
	node_stack_bottom = 0, -0.184, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0
	fx_exhaustFlame_blue_small = 0.0, -0.2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
	fx_exhaustLight_blue = 0.0, -0.2, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, running
	fx_smokeTrail_light = 0.0, -0.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running	
	sound_vent_medium = engage
	sound_rocket_hard = running
	sound_vent_soft = disengage
	sound_explosion_low = flameout
	
	TechRequired = generalRocketry
	entryCost = 2900
	cost = 260
	category = Engine
	subcategory = 0
	title = Engine LFO 0.625m 0015kN GA "Pomeranian"
	manufacturer = Space Exploration & Technology Initiative
	description = A great little upper stage engine for small probes, between the LV-1 and the LV-909.
	attachRules = 1,0,1,0,0
	mass = 0.12
	heatConductivity = 0.06
	skinInternalConductionMult = 4.0
	emissiveConstant = 0.8
	dragModelType = default
	maximum_drag = 0.2
	minimum_drag = 0.2
	angularDrag = 2
	crashTolerance = 7
	breakingForce = 200
	breakingTorque = 200
	maxTemp = 2000 // = 3600
	bulkheadProfiles = size0
	tags = lander orbit
	MODEL
	{
		model = Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEnginePoodle/model
		scale = 0.25, 0.25, 0.25
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngines
		thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
		exhaustDamage = True
		ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		minThrust = 0
		maxThrust = 15
		heatProduction = 50
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.18
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 0.3
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 335
			key = 1 95
			key = 3 0.001
		}
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleJettison
		jettisonName = fairing
		bottomNodeName = bottom
		isFairing = True
		jettisonedObjectMass = 0.1
		jettisonForce = 3
		jettisonDirection = 0 0 1
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleGimbal
		gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
		gimbalRange = 4
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FXModuleAnimateThrottle
		animationName = overheat
		responseSpeed = 0.001
		dependOnEngineState = True
		dependOnThrottle = True
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAlternator
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 1.0
		}
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 0
		isTweakable = false
		hideFlow = true
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSurfaceFX
		thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
		fxMax = 0.3
		maxDistance = 30
		falloff = 1.3
		thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
	}
	
	MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
		type = ModuleEnginesRF
        CONFIG
        {
			  ignitions = 1
			  ullage = true
			  pressureFed = false
			  IGNITOR_RESOURCE
			  {
				name = ElectricCharge
				amount = 0.5
			  }
			  IGNITOR_RESOURCE
            {
                name = TEATEB
                amount = 1    \\the amount of ignitions you want
            }
        }
	}
}

@PART[setiLFOenginePomeranian]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]:FOR[zzzzSETIprobeParts]
{
	!MODEL,* {}
	MODEL
	{
		model = Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEnginePoodle/model
		scale = 0.25, 0.25, 0.25
	}
}

@PART[setiLFOenginePomeranian]:NEEDS[RealPlume,SmokeScreen]:FOR[RealPlume]
{
    %PLUME[Hypergolic-OMS-White]
    {
        %transformName = thrustTransform
        %localRotation = 0,0,0
        %flarePosition = 0,0,-3
        %plumePosition = 0,0,0
        %fixedScale = 0.09
        %energy = 1.1
        %speed = 1.5
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @name = ModuleEnginesFX
        %powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-White
    }
}

@PART[setiLFOenginePomeranian]:NEEDS[TweakScale]:FOR[SETIprobeParts]
{
    #@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale] { }
    %MODULE[TweakScale]
    {
        type = stack
        defaultScale = 0.625
    }
}

Here it is. Its some engine added by SETI.

[JohnMcLane]

4 hours ago, Battou said:

Here it is. Its some engine added by SETI.

No thats not right. You want to add the ignitions to your engine module... thats how i would do it.

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngines
		thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
		exhaustDamage = True
		ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		minThrust = 0
		maxThrust = 15
		heatProduction = 50
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.18
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 0.3
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 335
			key = 1 95
			key = 3 0.001
		}
        ullage = True
		ignitions = 1
		IGNITOR_RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			amount = 0.5
		}
		IGNITOR_RESOURCE
		{
		name = TEATEB
		amount = 1
		}
	}

[Battou]

Is it just me, or there is a problem with Nuclear engines?? With this mod they are ABSOLUTELY inefficient. Yes, there is ISP over 900, but they give as much deltaV as Poodle for the same mass of fuel, and much less for the same volume of fuel. For example poodle vave 220 thrust vac and eat 60 liters of fuel per second, LV-N trimodal eats 173 liters of Hydrogen per sec and only outputs 111 thrust. LV-N Nerv eats 101 liter and outputs only 60 trust. Can someone give me RIGHT ammount of fuel consumption for nuclear engines so I could use them again? Thank you!

[Starwaster]

46 minutes ago, Battou said:

Is it just me, or there is a problem with Nuclear engines?? With this mod they are ABSOLUTELY inefficient. Yes, there is ISP over 900, but they give as much deltaV as Poodle for the same mass of fuel, and much less for the same volume of fuel. For example poodle vave 220 thrust vac and eat 60 liters of fuel per second, LV-N trimodal eats 173 liters of Hydrogen per sec and only outputs 111 thrust. LV-N Nerv eats 101 liter and outputs only 60 trust. Can someone give me RIGHT ammount of fuel consumption for nuclear engines so I could use them again? Thank you!

It's not just you others do this too.

First you need to understand that RF does NOT DO ENGINE CONFIGS ANYMORE. You should be bringing this to the thread of whatever engine pack you are using that provides your engine configs.

Second, you need to understand that it's not all about thrust and Isp, you need to look at your entire rocket design. If you are LITERALLY getting as much deltaV as a poodle then your dry mass for the two vehicles you are comparing is different. Nuclear engines also tend to be heavy and maybe your poodle is lighter.

Also, in comparing the LV-N vs LVN trimodal, they have very different Isp so the fuel consumption per amount of thrust is different. The thrust levels and consumption are correct  for each engine for their respective Isp ratings considering LH2 consumption only. Though not explictly brought up, the trimodal should have the same LH2 consumption in afterburner mode as in its default mode but does not because the assigned thrust level is slightly higher for that mode than it should be.

[Saiko.Systems]

Greetings All

I've tried many different things, and scoured many configs for examples, and tried many copy/pastes, in the hopes of fixing/Editing some engines, with regards to realfuels.

Specifically, airbreathing engines, and multimode engines.

For the life of me, i cannot figure out how to set up airbreathing engines to have multiple configs (a propeller engine to have a kerosene/air, and a ethanol/air, as an example)
every time i attempt, it either doesnt work at all, or i get the option to switch between them just like the normal engines, except it shows me having zero thrust, insanely large number for max thrust velocity, and/or really low ISP.

In regards to multimode engines, like the rapier.... i'd like to modify it to have different configs for each mode. (Kerosene+air and ethanol+air for airbreathing.... and kerosene+lqdox and ethanol+lqdox for closed cycle..... or methane instead of ethanol, or something) ..... (I'd also like to create a multimode engine with variable configs, for a propeller engine, where i have my normal configs (keresone/air, ethanol/air, etcetera) and a second mode that adds in a third fuel, for a nice boost. (nitrous) )

If anyone would be so kind as to walk me through how i can accomplish these two tasks, i would be forever grateful. i have searched many times through the supplied configs (using the stockalike configs linked in original post), and via google, to no avail.

[Battou]

Any hope of getting this great mod updated for 1.4?

[blowfish]

RealFuels v12.5.0 for KSP 1.3.1

• Fix vesion checker which reported KSP 1.3.1 as incompatible
• Implement new entry cost system for RP-0/1
• Disable thrust limiter when no throttling
• Implement min and max utilization support on tanks

Sorry to anyone looking for a 1.4.x release for RF-stockalike, but Realism Overhaul needed one more release so here it is

Edited April 3, 2018 by blowfish

[Skystorm]

Anyone have any experience running the 1.3.1 version of Real Fuels on KSP 1.4.x?  Does it work ok?

[MAV3RICK]

I'm playing KSP v1.3 with RealFuels version v12.3.0. I have a monopropellant engine (not an RCS) from the Coatl Aerospace mod using hydrazine, and a highly pressurised fuel tank (it has the ServiceModule category). However, when launching this on a test rocket, it's showing as 'unstable' propellant, and igniting says there is vapor in the fuel lines. What am I missing/what do I need to do to make the fuel stable? Is there some sort of pressurant I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

[Skystorm]

@MAV3RICK Your engines require some form of ullage.  Some form of forward thrust should stabilize it such as from an ullage motor or RCS until it says the propellant is "Stable", then ignite the engine(s).  Engines that do not require ullage will say so in their descriptions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullage#Rocketry

[MAV3RICK]

I thought that being pressure-fed would allow it to run without ullage? My misunderstanding if not....

[Starwaster]

21 minutes ago, MAV3RICK said:

I thought that being pressure-fed would allow it to run without ullage? My misunderstanding if not....

Common myth.

But no. Pressure fed means that the propellant is forced into the engine by pressure rather than being sucked in by a pump.

Regardless of whether it's pumped or pressure fed... what do you think is going to happen if all your propellant is sloshing around the tank instead of being settled against the part of the tank that has the propellant feed lines?

Nothing, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky you get bubbles and vapor in the feed line that could damage something. (we don't simulate anything other than simple failure; the engine ignites or it doesn't)

Most likely when you think of pressure fed you're probably thinking of the kind of tanks that RCS thrusters use. Small tanks that contain the propellant in a bladder. The space between the tank wall and the bladder is kept pressurized and when the valve opens the propellant is squeezed out like toothpaste being squeezed out of a tube. No gas or vapor is able to form inside or otherwise get inside the bladder. 

[MAV3RICK]

Ah, OK. Consider me edumacated. Thanks!

[JebIsDeadBaby]

Hi, 

KSP 1.3.1 + RF 12.5.0 + RF Stockalike Configs 3.2.4 - RCS works with no problem even when no Service Module is attached. Is this intentional or a bug withing RF or RF Stockalike Configs?

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

Hi, 

KSP 1.3.1 + RF 12.5.0 + RF Stockalike Configs 3.2.4 - RCS works with no problem even when no Service Module is attached. Is this intentional or a bug withing RF or RF Stockalike Configs?

I'm not understanding what the significance of a service module is supposed to be with regards to RCS. 

It certainly has no significance with regards to Real Fuels and RCS

[JebIsDeadBaby]

 

4 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I'm not understanding what the significance of a service module is supposed to be with regards to RCS. 

Well, according to the description of the Service Module tank from the 3rd post of this very thread:

Quote

* ServiceModule: Used for service modules and other pressure-fed tanks. You need this for pressure-fed engines (RCS are pressure-fed engines). 

So to my understanding you need a highly pressurized tank for RCS to work (so Service Module of Fuselage types). Yet they work just fine on a rocket with Default tanks only. 

[Starwaster]

6 hours ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

 

Well, according to the description of the Service Module tank from the 3rd post of this very thread:

So to my understanding you need a highly pressurized tank for RCS to work (so Service Module of Fuselage types). Yet they work just fine on a rocket with Default tanks only. 

Only ModuleEnginesRF engines can have that restriction. ModuleRCS* cannot and only care about their fuel flow requirements (i.e. stock rules not RF)

[li7in6]

In the readme under the changelog for 10.8.5 it indicates the throttle response speed is tuneable in RealSettings.cfg and in per-engine configs. I've looked in these and cannot figure out any settings that directly effect the engine spool up and response behavior in game.

I thought it might be under the tech level settings as TLTHROTTLE# but changing these values doesn't seem to have an effect.

I have also changed the useEngineResponseTime and engineAccelerationSpeed/engineDecelerationSpeed values on a per engine basis with no effect.

In the changelog for version 10.6 it mentions using throttleResponseRate for tweaking engine response rate. However this entry is not present in any of the configs and adding it seems to have no effect.

I am trying to create my own engines mod and am struggling with the inbuilt engine response and spool up behavior from realfuels that should not be present for certain types of engine. Any help would be appreciated.