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[1.8+] Real Fuels


NathanKell
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I am having an issue with Liquid Oxygen boiloff:
In cryogenic tanks, when used with Kerosene, it boils off very fast, while when used with liquid hydrogen the boil off rate is a lot slower.

For a stage burning for about 2min, from takeoff, I end up with over 1/10th of my Kerosene left in the tank due to the boiloff (not exact figures, but I can get them). Also note that boiloff rate increases to the max almost instantaneously after loading the rocket on the launchped, and actually reduces while flying.

If there's any config to reduce oxygen boiloff rate, please tell me.
I've also noticed that in RealTankTypes.cfg, the liquid oxygen config for cryogenic lacks the following lines compared to hydrogen, and other cryogenic fuels:

insulationThickness = 0.0381
insulationConduction = 0.014

Maybe the issue comes from there ?

Using KSP 1.0.4 and Real Fuels 10.7.2

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11 hours ago, Gaarst said:

I am having an issue with Liquid Oxygen boiloff:
In cryogenic tanks, when used with Kerosene, it boils off very fast, while when used with liquid hydrogen the boil off rate is a lot slower.

For a stage burning for about 2min, from takeoff, I end up with over 1/10th of my Kerosene left in the tank due to the boiloff (not exact figures, but I can get them). Also note that boiloff rate increases to the max almost instantaneously after loading the rocket on the launchped, and actually reduces while flying.

If there's any config to reduce oxygen boiloff rate, please tell me.
I've also noticed that in RealTankTypes.cfg, the liquid oxygen config for cryogenic lacks the following lines compared to hydrogen, and other cryogenic fuels:

insulationThickness = 0.0381
insulationConduction = 0.014

Maybe the issue comes from there ?

Using KSP 1.0.4 and Real Fuels 10.7.2

Im also having the same problem. Please can someone help us?

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On 12/3/2015, 1:56:45, FlarpingFlipperFlapper said:

Can we change the hydogen boil-off rate?

Consult the Readme_RF.txt file. Look at the changelog for 10.7.2

On 12/3/2015, 2:41:41, Gaarst said:

I am having an issue with Liquid Oxygen boiloff:
In cryogenic tanks, when used with Kerosene, it boils off very fast, while when used with liquid hydrogen the boil off rate is a lot slower.

For a stage burning for about 2min, from takeoff, I end up with over 1/10th of my Kerosene left in the tank due to the boiloff (not exact figures, but I can get them). Also note that boiloff rate increases to the max almost instantaneously after loading the rocket on the launchped, and actually reduces while flying.

If there's any config to reduce oxygen boiloff rate, please tell me.
I've also noticed that in RealTankTypes.cfg, the liquid oxygen config for cryogenic lacks the following lines compared to hydrogen, and other cryogenic fuels:

insulationThickness = 0.0381
insulationConduction = 0.014

Maybe the issue comes from there ?

Using KSP 1.0.4 and Real Fuels 10.7.2

You're behind by several updates.

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/releases/latest

Edit: In fact. Holy crap. You're lucky you're not locking up on startup or something. Go update!

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/releases/latest

Edited by Starwaster
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10 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

You're behind by several updates.

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/releases/latest

Edit: In fact. Holy crap. You're lucky you're not locking up on startup or something. Go update!

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/releases/latest

I am still playing KSP 1.0.4, so I didn't update to 10.8.x as I assumed they weren't compatible with 1.0.4.

Anyway, I will try the ferociousBoilOff thing to see if it solves the issue.

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@Gaarst my bad I missed where you said you were using 1.0.4

2 hours ago, FlarpingFlipperFlapper said:

what do these 4 values mean?

        wallThickness = 1.0
        wallConduction = 205
        insulationThickness = 1.0
        insulationConduction = 0.014

and do they all contribute to the boil off rate?

Those control the rate at which heat leaks into the tank. Thickness is in meters. Conduction is in SI units: W/(m·K) 

(watts per square meter of tank per degree Kelvin)

1 meter thick walls is grotesquely overkill - Where do you see that because no tank thickness in RF are that thick.

Edited by Starwaster
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On Sun 06 Dec 2015 03:58:14 AM, Starwaster said:

@Gaarst my bad I missed where you said you were using 1.0.4

Those control the rate at which heat leaks into the tank. Thickness is in meters. Conduction is in SI units: W/(m·K) 

(watts per square meter of tank per degree Kelvin)

1 meter thick walls is grotesquely overkill - Where do you see that because no tank thickness in RF are that thick.

oh that was a lousy attempt at trying to shut off the boiling. Found out I need to delete the hsp and vsp lines. Some day ill manage getting boiloffs , but for now im still learning the fuels.

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I have an issue with a fuel. Its called Nitrogen. When I fill up a tank with it wants to exceed the tank size (1000L)  to 2000000L or some wacky high number like that. The problem begins when I fill up the tank to 500L with Nitrogen and when im in flight the resource panel says I have 0 liters. I checked the community resource config and saw a change in that fuel with the line called utilization = 200 ....yet all the fuels in that config have a utilization of 1 except for Xe and EC. This has got to be it. But why does that high utilization number make my tank still empty of Nitrogen?

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8 hours ago, FlarpingFlipperFlapper said:

I have an issue with a fuel. Its called Nitrogen. When I fill up a tank with it wants to exceed the tank size (1000L)  to 2000000L or some wacky high number like that. The problem begins when I fill up the tank to 500L with Nitrogen and when im in flight the resource panel says I have 0 liters. I checked the community resource config and saw a change in that fuel with the line called utilization = 200 ....yet all the fuels in that config have a utilization of 1 except for Xe and EC. This has got to be it. But why does that high utilization number make my tank still empty of Nitrogen?

It's a pressurized gas. If  you have a 1000 liter tank and it says it has 10000 liters of Nitrogen in it (or it would be at standard pressure/temperature), then the nitrogen has been compressed to 1/10th its normal volume.

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Yep, all resources are added in liters-at-STP (or in the case of electric charge, kJ). The liters of tank volume they take up is dependent on what pressure they are compressed to.

Nitrogen is at 200atm I believe, and EC uses 1 liter for 1MJ (1000kJ).

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Speaking of boiloff ect I've recently reinstalled 64k Kerbin.... I need a more realistic ISP ect in order for the engines to be  more " normally efficient" But I remember I liked Realfuels for the fact you can select what types offuels ect and get more or less efficiency. I'm avoiding this mod because of boil offs and all those " shenanigans" some of you would argue that's realistic and that's that it's how it should be ect.... But the thing I'm trying to ask is.. You remember how FAR had NEAR? for the people who wanted a better atmosphere but with out all the shenanigans.... I'm wondering if Real fuels has it's simplified version with out boil offs? I don't like having to go edit files ect I'm scared to break stuff........ So it would be nice to have an easy to install version of this mod without boiloffs. Does it exist already? I searched around a little but coulen't find any. Except Engin configs for this mod.

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9 hours ago, Dermeister said:

Speaking of boiloff ect I've recently reinstalled 64k Kerbin.... I need a more realistic ISP ect in order for the engines to be  more " normally efficient" But I remember I liked Realfuels for the fact you can select what types offuels ect and get more or less efficiency. I'm avoiding this mod because of boil offs and all those " shenanigans" some of you would argue that's realistic and that's that it's how it should be ect.... But the thing I'm trying to ask is.. You remember how FAR had NEAR? for the people who wanted a better atmosphere but with out all the shenanigans.... I'm wondering if Real fuels has it's simplified version with out boil offs? I don't like having to go edit files ect I'm scared to break stuff........ So it would be nice to have an easy to install version of this mod without boiloffs. Does it exist already? I searched around a little but coulen't find any. Except Engin configs for this mod.

the fix for getting rid of boiloffs is really easy actually. Just go inside the resource config and delete the lines that say hsp and vsp.

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Hi,

Does anyone have a link to TaranisElsu's guide for adding RF tank support?  The link in the FAQ at the start of the thread takes me to the start of the Modular Fuel Tanks thread, which has the same link (bringing me back to the start of the thread again).  I suspect that link is a casualty of the forum migration...

Thanks

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9 hours ago, AndreZero said:

Hi,

Does anyone have a link to TaranisElsu's guide for adding RF tank support?  The link in the FAQ at the start of the thread takes me to the start of the Modular Fuel Tanks thread, which has the same link (bringing me back to the start of the thread again).  I suspect that link is a casualty of the forum migration...

Thanks

Nevermind.  Think I found it http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/58235-105-modular-fuel-tanks-v561/&page=3#comment-893966

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Real Fuels stopped working when going to 1.0.5 . All my tanks only have the stock liquid fuel/ox . The egngines from the stock-a-like pack are non-configuarble the same. This on a fresh install with only Real Fuels , Community Pack of Resources, and Solver Engines. There is no GUI when right-clicking tanks. Could this be a compatibility issue with 1.0.5?

This is thrown in the dubug console when trying to click the "Remove Tanks" GUI button

[Log]: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KSPAPIExtensions.UIPartActionChooseOption.UpdateItem () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

This leads the investigation into the KSPAPI Extensions not being compatible with 1.0.5 . As soon as I removed that extension, the GUI completely went away like you were playing without Real Fuels. This also proves that this extension was the driving force behind said GUI that is corrupt and being used in Real Fuels. So now can you point me in the right direction?

Edited by lextacy
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4 hours ago, lextacy said:

Real Fuels stopped working when going to 1.0.5 . All my tanks only have the stock liquid fuel/ox . The egngines from the stock-a-like pack are non-configuarble the same. This on a fresh install with only Real Fuels , Community Pack of Resources, and Solver Engines. There is no GUI when right-clicking tanks. Could this be a compatibility issue with 1.0.5?

This is thrown in the dubug console when trying to click the "Remove Tanks" GUI button

[Log]: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KSPAPIExtensions.UIPartActionChooseOption.UpdateItem () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

This leads the investigation into the KSPAPI Extensions not being compatible with 1.0.5 . As soon as I removed that extension, the GUI completely went away like you were playing without Real Fuels. This also proves that this extension was the driving force behind said GUI that is corrupt and being used in Real Fuels. So now can you point me in the right direction?

Sounds like you're using the wrong version of RF or have installed it incorrectly because if it's the ONLY mod you have installed then it should be working.

There's just not enough information in your post to really say more.

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I know this mod has issues with tweakscale, however I am wondering if it's a matter of "don't install tweakscale at all" or "just don't tweak the size of engines/tanks etc". I'd like to get infernal robotics in my RSS/RO/RP0 game if possible, and it requires tweakscale because the parts don't come in different sizes and aren't "procedural". The robotics stuff is the only parts I will ever "tweak".

Should I just stay away from it and leave IR/tweakscale out?

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4 hours ago, Svm420 said:

As Nathan said had no issues with engines, but RCS is broken with tweakscale. This does depend on using the dev version of tweakscale from Git.

Thanks, I can see the discussion on github. I'm not interested in applying tweaks to RCS anyway, only to the robotics stuff. I'll test it myself to see if I still get those exceptions on untweaked parts.

Edit: I will try this which supposedly removes tweakscale from everything apart from infernal robotics. Let me know if there are some tweakscale configs hiding inside realfuels that I will also have to delete.

Edited by Unit327
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