[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Theysen]

1 minute ago, FreeThinker said:

Well Wikipedia sstates that Hydrolox has a comion mass ratio of 4.83  which would translate in a 29.8675% in LqdOxygen by volume.. Still the question How does RealFuels ensures the correct tanks mix is used when every engine uses a differnt Hydrogen Oxygen mix

The engine configs for RF should provide the correct entries for ratios per engine variant. It then transfers into the correct percentages. 

[Temeter]

21 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Well Wikipedia states that Hydrolox (LH+ LOX) has a common mass ratio of 4.83  which would translate in a volume percentage of 29.8675%. Still the question remains how does RealFuels ensures the correct tanks mix is used when every engine uses a differnt Hydrogen Oxygen mix

It just gives you a checklist showing all fuels ratios of the vessels engines/RCS, and lets the user chose the one he needs in the regarding fuel tank.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Temeter

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Well Wikipedia states that Hydrolox (LH+ LOX) has a common mass ratio of 4.83  which would translate in a volume percentage of 29.8675%. Still the question remains how does RealFuels ensures the correct tanks mix is used when every engine uses a differnt Hydrogen Oxygen mix

 

40 minutes ago, Temeter said:

It just gives you a checklist showing all fuels ratios of the vessels engines/RCS, and lets the user chose the one he needs in the regarding fuel tank.

And, just want to add here that there is no 'correct' ratio. IRL it's not uncommon for a mix ratio to be used that does not guarantee total combustion of all fuel. Some engines might burn lean or rich. Not only that but (for example) the J2 used on the Saturn V switched to different ratios during ascent.

[FreeThinker]

Well , I just want KSPI to support a LH+LOX mixture which compatible with a standard real fuel tank

Edited May 9, 2016 by FreeThinker

[NecroBones]

 

Some mission profiles also might include different ratios in the tank to account for boil-off rates, especially if there's a coast phase with an engine restart.

 

I guess the question is what makes for a good "default" configuration that might work for most cases.

 

 

[Dermeister]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 7:18 AM, Phineas Freak said:

 

 

So I'm Using RSS with RF but I don't want to install Realism Overhaul. What do I do to get the Real engines? I'm currently using the stock alike Config for Real fuels but I feel asthough my rockets have to be Super huge to get 0 payload into LEO. The Stock alike engines with Realfuels are more suited for 64k correct? Did I miss something about how to install real engins with real engine mass and performance to a none RO install that uses RSS? I've been searching the forums but I cant find anything that dosent lead me to RO or stock alike config.

[Phineas Freak]

@Dermeisterso, to get it right, you want to use RSS and RF but without RO, correct? It that case you have to install RFStockalike to get the RF patches for the engines and ROMini to adjust the dry mass of the parts.

[Dermeister]

5 minutes ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Dermeisterso, to get it right, you want to use RSS and RF but without RO, correct? It that case you have to install RFStockalike to get the RF patches for the engines and ROMini to adjust the dry mass of the parts.

I will give it a look  thankyou. Although it seems ROMini Dosen't add engines just configs for existing engines.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Dermeister

[Phineas Freak]

I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work. I have not tried it myself nor anyone else has asked about it before though.

[Raptor831]

29 minutes ago, Dermeister said:

 

So I'm Using RSS with RF but I don't want to install Realism Overhaul. What do I do to get the Real engines? I'm currently using the stock alike Config for Real fuels but I feel asthough my rockets have to be Super huge to get 0 payload into LEO. The Stock alike engines with Realfuels are more suited for 64k correct? Did I miss something about how to install real engins with real engine mass and performance to a none RO install that uses RSS? I've been searching the forums but I cant find anything that dosent lead me to RO or stock alike config.

The RFStockalike set is intended to be used on 6.4x scale with full RF, or stock scale with the masses reverted to stock levels. They'll work in a RSS setup, but you'll end up clustering engines like a madman because your rocket sizes/masses are going to be much larger.

Is the RftS set still a thing? Because if it is, it'll give you realistic engines for RSS/RO that aren't based solely on real engines.

[Dermeister]

5 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

The RFStockalike set is intended to be used on 6.4x scale with full RF, or stock scale with the masses reverted to stock levels. They'll work in a RSS setup, but you'll end up clustering engines like a madman because your rocket sizes/masses are going to be much larger.

Is the RftS set still a thing? Because if it is, it'll give you realistic engines for RSS/RO that aren't based solely on real engines.

YEa i'm used to playing 64k with Full RF and I wanted to dip in RSS. I will search for RftS.  thankyou!

 

SO on that note I looked and

 I doupt this is the mod you speak of?

Edited May 9, 2016 by Dermeister

[Trigger1112]

3 hours ago, Dermeister said:

 

So I'm Using RSS with RF but I don't want to install Realism Overhaul. What do I do to get the Real engines? I'm currently using the stock alike Config for Real fuels but I feel asthough my rockets have to be Super huge to get 0 payload into LEO. The Stock alike engines with Realfuels are more suited for 64k correct? Did I miss something about how to install real engins with real engine mass and performance to a none RO install that uses RSS? I've been searching the forums but I cant find anything that dosent lead me to RO or stock alike config.

This is more or less what I was asking.

[Raptor831]

@Dermeister

RftS (Reach for the Stars) is an alt-history story by NathanKell. That link you posted is a kind of prequel of that thread where he goes through the history of his WWII via various warbirds.

He made the configs he used for RftS available for others to use. Currently, the configs are here: 

But, it's not been updated per that post since 1/24/14, so YMMV.

[FallenPhoenixRA]

12 hours ago, Dermeister said:

Look in the Config file that comes with this mod. RealSetting.cfg I think. That's how I did it but i'm not sure if I did it wrong.. but it works I don't have to deal with ulage... The only thing I din't figure out was how to disable Cook off... but i'm on the fence as to weather or not I like cook off or not. Would be nice if some one could tell me where to disable that doe.

Thanks for the info

 

Ok so I just Delete the section that says Ullage? Or what part? 

[Dermeister]

1 hour ago, Raptor831 said:

@Dermeister

RftS (Reach for the Stars) is an alt-history story by NathanKell. That link you posted is a kind of prequel of that thread where he goes through the history of his WWII via various warbirds.

He made the configs he used for RftS available for others to use. Currently, the configs are here: 

But, it's not been updated per that post since 1/24/14, so YMMV.

Thank you ill check it but if it's not been updated I don't know if it can break my game :(. Dosen't any 1 play RSS no RO with real engines? or am I one of those rare people who want to do that?

 

@Trigger1112

1 hour ago, FallenPhoenixRA said:

Ok so I just Delete the section that says Ullage? Or what part? 

Ullage
 {
  simulateUllage = false
  limitedIgnitions = false
  shutdownEngineWhenUnstable = false
  explodeEngineWhenTooUnstable = false
  stabilityPower = 0.5
  
 

 

Scroll to the bottom of RealSettings.cfg and look for that, then change it to false instead of true save and then go play :). Make sure to respect spaces where there are space and put false in all small letters. I don't know if caps affect code or not but I din't take a chance I did it excaly how it was except instead of true I put false.

Don't delete anything else other than "true" and replace it by "false".

Edited May 10, 2016 by Dermeister

[Raptor831]

1 hour ago, Dermeister said:

Thank you ill check it but if it's not been updated I don't know if it can break my game :(. Dosen't any 1 play RSS no RO with real engines? or am I one of those rare people who want to do that?

 

I've been toying with that idea, honestly. I like the Lego blocks mentality of KSP and I'd love to have those on a real-scale system. I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't want to try a Nova direct-ascent launch to the moon with all the right parts, but I still like slapping an idea together to see if it flies.

The issue is that configs take a long time to get tuned. Having to take each engine and say "You'll be a 10m cluster", "You look like a probe .5m engine", "You're a 3m single", etc can be daunting. (Which is why RO is a community effort.) And if you want those new engines to be in an RP-0-type of career tech tree, that's another whole layer of tuning. But that would be really cool! 

[Dermeister]

14 hours ago, Raptor831 said:

I've been toying with that idea, honestly. I like the Lego blocks mentality of KSP and I'd love to have those on a real-scale system. I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't want to try a Nova direct-ascent launch to the moon with all the right parts, but I still like slapping an idea together to see if it flies.

The issue is that configs take a long time to get tuned. Having to take each engine and say "You'll be a 10m cluster", "You look like a probe .5m engine", "You're a 3m single", etc can be daunting. (Which is why RO is a community effort.) And if you want those new engines to be in an RP-0-type of career tech tree, that's another whole layer of tuning. But that would be really cool! 

YEa sounds like a lot of work but I thought it might have been out there already. Because if it's in RO I thought it could of also have been a stand alone mod Slash config for RF. SO that a player can use Real engines with real performance with out the over realism of all the other stuff in RO such as the cities on eart ( I like an earth with no city it's as though the kerbals live on earth underground like on kerbin but the planet looks like earth) SO you don't have to worry about citys ect. But I love the grand scale of RSS. I used to play 64k a lot but now I want try earth.

so i'm just patiently looking around and waiting to see if anything is out there for  RSS and engines :).

Edited May 10, 2016 by Dermeister

[Trigger1112]

21 hours ago, Dermeister said:

Thank you ill check it but if it's not been updated I don't know if it can break my game :(. Dosen't any 1 play RSS no RO with real engines? or am I one of those rare people who want to do that?

 

@Trigger1112

Have you tried this? I might try it after exams:

On 09 May 2016 at 9:06 PM, Phineas Freak said:

@Dermeisterso, to get it right, you want to use RSS and RF but without RO, correct? It that case you have to install RFStockalike to get the RF patches for the engines and ROMini to adjust the dry mass of the parts.

 

 

There's also this but it's configured for RftS and I don't have time right now to go through all of it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz2ntsqhwe192xv/Calcs.xls

Or you could do what I did and copy enough RO files to get it to work but not so many the game thinks RO is installed. When I tried it fuels and names were correct for some engines but tanks were iffy and RSB didn't work at all. Doing it that way might require some file editing, which requires more time and skill than I have.

[Dermeister]

15 hours ago, Trigger1112 said:

Have you tried this? I might try it after exams:

 

 

There's also this but it's configured for RftS and I don't have time right now to go through all of it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz2ntsqhwe192xv/Calcs.xls

Or you could do what I did and copy enough RO files to get it to work but not so many the game thinks RO is installed. When I tried it fuels and names were correct for some engines but tanks were iffy and RSB didn't work at all. Doing it that way might require some file editing, which requires more time and skill than I have.

I will check it out for now I reverted to 64k.

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Dermeister

[jstnj]

So if I use 64K and RF...do I need to also tweak the dry mass values with ROMini to get to "accurate" values?

[McKerbin]

16 hours ago, Trigger1112 said:

Have you tried this? I might try it after exams:

 

 

There's also this but it's configured for RftS and I don't have time right now to go through all of it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz2ntsqhwe192xv/Calcs.xls

Or you could do what I did and copy enough RO files to get it to work but not so many the game thinks RO is installed. When I tried it fuels and names were correct for some engines but tanks were iffy and RSB didn't work at all. Doing it that way might require some file editing, which requires more time and skill than I have.

I'm restarting my 10x KSP with RealFuels but not RO.  I like the idea of play Kerbals and their system (New Horizons actually).

I started to look into ripping just the parts of RO out that I wanted and downloaded the source code zip from GitHub. 
https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/releases

In the root of the zip there's a ROMini.cfg that mostly does what I'm looking for.  Just re-balances the stock parts weights  & thrust.

 

I did a quick test last night: http://imgur.com/zHzcYWx

Mk 1-2 Pod to 160km orbit.  Lower stage has 3 Mainsail engines, Upper 1 Skipper, Orbiter 1 Poodle.  ~10k delta-v total.

Worked great until I realized I had Kerbalism running and forgot to add oxygen.  Jeb, Bob, and Bill suffocated during re-entry.

But the changes in ROmini.cfg proved to make 10x feasible without the entire RO package, so I Val counted the test as a success.

 

 

 

[Phineas Freak]

7 minutes ago, McKerbin said:

But the changes in ROmini.cfg proved to make 10x feasible without the entire RO package

Exactly! That is why ROMini was created, to give the players a way to play with RSS (or similarly scaled systems) but without the requirement(s) of RO.

[Raptor831]

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Exactly! That is why ROMini was created, to give the players a way to play with RSS (or similarly scaled systems) but without the requirement(s) of RO.

Well, learn something new every day.

[jstnj]

On 5/11/2016 at 0:55 PM, Phineas Freak said:

Exactly! That is why ROMini was created, to give the players a way to play with RSS (or similarly scaled systems) but without the requirement(s) of RO.

 

@McKerbin@NathanKell

Do I just place the ROmini config file in the main RO folder in GameData/ ? Or do I need to modify/delete the global config that already exists there?

Edited May 12, 2016 by jstnj

[TrooperCooper]

 

Ahoy @NathanKell !

A bug keeps plaguing me in my current RSS / RO / RP-0 game. Since it regularly locks up my creations, I am pretty much grounded at the moment.

I looked at the logs and forked through my installed mods, trying to figure out which one is causing it. In the end I could only try to reproduce it with a fresh KSP install and a CKAN RSS + RO + required mods install. My system is a Windows 7 Pro and I am running the regular KSP 64 bit exe.

Here is a an imgur album that shows and explains how to reproduce the bug.

 

The log section that I think is related to the bug:

Spoiler

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.Setup (.Part part, DisplayType type, UI_Scene scene) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.CreatePartUI (.Part part, DisplayType type, UI_Scene scene) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.SelectPart (.Part part, Boolean allowMultiple) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.HandleMouseClick (UnityEngine.Camera cam, Boolean allowMultiple) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController+<MouseClickCoroutine>c__IteratorBB.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

Updating Untitled Space Craft
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.UpdateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateActiveWindows () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateEditor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.UpdateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateActiveWindows () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateEditor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionWindow.UpdateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateActiveWindows () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.UpdateEditor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

  at UIPartActionController.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

 

It then just continues to spam the red marked part.

I am still unsure if this is related to RF, RO or procedural parts or something else. If it doesnt belong here and you got an idea, please let me know.

As always, thanks for your outstanding work for this game.