[1.0.x] Habitat Pack v0.41

[Hattivat]

I'd like to refer anyone interested in the topic to an excellent post by ArcFurnace: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79603-0-2-35-CELSS-Greenhouse-%28TAC-Life-Support-Add-On-Version-0-1-beta%29?p=1151541&viewfull=1#post1151541

His data is far superior to what I previously used. For (relatively) adequate and varied nutrition he estimates 54 cubic meters per kerbal for a manually harvested greenhouse, and a theoretical minimum of 9 cubic meters per kerbal for a highly space-efficient, fully-automated one. Both estimates include all of the necessary equipment and lighting. Since almost half of that 54 m^3 figure is wasted on space for crew to move about harvesting the plants (18 m^3 between plant rows, and from that NASA document it seems a further several cubic meters is reserved for space to move hands within the growth area), with full automation it should be about 30 m^3 per kerbal. With some improvements in space-efficiency (a realistic assumption since space-efficiency of such systems is improving and the NASA document he uses is 10 years old) that should be at least somewhat reduceable. To be safe let's assume only limited improvements (far less than his proposed maximum) and say it would be 25 m^3 per kerbal.

Since this estimate already includes the equipment, we can "move" the bioreactor to one of the spherical ends of the PA550 module. That leaves us with the entirety of the cylindrical part to play with. It has about 78 cubic meters of volume, so assuming 3 cubic meters for walls, we are left with 75 cubic meters for the greenhouse proper, in other words enough for three kerbals.

So the updated estimate is: PA550 is sufficient to adequately and almost indefinitely support THREE kerbals, not four. But this is now a scientifically plausible estimate backed by NASA data, not just a "let's try to make realistic assumptions" one as previously.

He also provided a weight estimate: 4.5 tonnes per kerbal, and a power consumption estimate: 90 EC/s/kerbal, both apparently regardless of volume used. So I would say a PA550-based greenhouse should weigh about 18 tonnes (assuming 4 tonnes for a bioreactor* and 0.5 tonnes for a small reserve) and require about 300 EC/s (assuming 30 EC for automated planting and harvesting).

*This bioreactor is the only make-believe part of the whole system, as to my (admittedly limited) knowledge no existing bioreactor is capable of recovering nutrients to the degree required to make the whole system closed-loop. However, on Earth a 1 cubic meter, 1-tonne bioreactor could be enough to treat wastewater output of an entire house, whereas in order to make the whole thing more plausible I propose a 4-cubic meter, 4-tonne one for the life support system, assuming that if such an advanced system was ever created, it would have to be more complex and therefore bulkier.

[namAehT]

-insert interesting things-

-insert more interesting things-

This would actually be a really nice idea for a TAC life support crossover where you could generate food/water/oxygen back from the wastes based off of your crafts greenhouse modules. It shouldn't be a perfect recapture of resources but it would be more realistic for a long term mission rather then carrying 10 large life support modules.

[Commander Zoom]

Just FYI, the reason why most greenhouse mods use that one model is that it was created by modelmaker "zzz" (who also made most of the parts for Interstellar) and thrown out to the community for anyone to use. And it looks pretty cool. So everyone did/has.

Personally, and only slightly more on topic, I'd love a version of the toroidal hab with a scaled-up hub and centrifuge ring; all the ships I'd put such a thing on use parts wider than the current 1m hub, requiring adapters, and I've never quite been able to convince myself that kerbals can fit inside the centrifuge with as much room as the IVA shows, given its (inflated) diameter. Maybe TweakScale is the answer?

[Porkjet]

IVA With a Kerbal next to the Centrifuge, and imagine what he would look like without his helmet, you'll find he'd easily fit in there. The torus is 1.25m thick and the diameter is slightly over 7m, It's bigger than it looks.

I know many people (including myself) would like to have a big centrifuge, and there definetly will be one, stay tuned. (but don't expect it too soon)

Edited May 18, 2014 by Porkjet

[DevL]

I've PM'd Porkjet with a fix for this issue, please stay tuned here and/or the CM thread for updates.

Any news on this?

[RoverDude]

On a side note RE greenhouse mods (and the Porkjet models are absolutely awesome) and glass/rigid structures, here's the basis I used for MKS (users of that mod will see where I pulled the design from). Just interesting how many different ways there are to skin the proverbial cat

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/biomed/marsdome/

[Hattivat]

^That's from 2003. Modern solutions look more like this:

As for windows - it depends on the destination, like solar panels. In inner solar system they make perfect sense, but the farther you go from the sun, the less point there is in having them.

[RoverDude]

^That's from 2003. Modern solutions look more like this:

As for windows - it depends on the destination, like solar panels. In inner solar system they make perfect sense, but the farther you go from the sun, the less point there is in having them.

No debate, went with those models since all of MKS is based off of the DRM designs Point was there are lots of different options - inflatables, rigid structures, underground or above ground, etc.

[Hattivat]

Sure, and I like how they all have a coherent style. My personal search for window-less greenhouses stems from my interest in long-term missions to Jool, etc. - it just feels wrong to me to have large windows in the outer solar system - you'd lose more heat this way than you'd gain in energy.

[RoverDude]

Sure, and I like how they all have a coherent style. My personal search for window-less greenhouses stems from my interest in long-term missions to Jool, etc. - it just feels wrong to me to have large windows in the outer solar system - you'd lose more heat this way than you'd gain in energy.

Oh agree 100%. For that you'd just utilize the interior space to have more lights. For that, MM'ing one of the Porkjet hab modules would be quite sweet.

[marce]

I'd like to use the FLAT hub in connection with the base mount.

But I can't figure out how to help my Kerbals get in since with the base mount the hatch is slightly out of range and I haven't found a way to attach a ladder to the hub.

Any ideas how to solve that or am I overlooking something?

[somnambulist]

I'd like to use the FLAT hub in connection with the base mount.

But I can't figure out how to help my Kerbals get in since with the base mount the hatch is slightly out of range and I haven't found a way to attach a ladder to the hub.

Any ideas how to solve that or am I overlooking something

I've done it two ways. First is to build a set of air stairs and roll it up to the hatch (watch out for hop-ons). The other way is to use KAS to build a girder radially in the direction of the hatch and then attach a ladder at the end.

[marce]

I see, thanks.

Alright, then I'll go with KAS since attaching a ladder to the hatch works after it is deployed. Not perfect but I can live with that.

[DevL]

I'd like to use the FLAT hub in connection with the base mount.

But I can't figure out how to help my Kerbals get in since with the base mount the hatch is slightly out of range and I haven't found a way to attach a ladder to the hub.

Any ideas how to solve that or am I overlooking something?

See this post by Tommygun.

[blux_]

Love the mod, but only the Orbital Orb and Centrifuge will hold crew. Am I doing something wrong?

[DivisionByZero]

I'm getting a funny message. The centrifuge is telling me that it is full when it is empty. This is happening on two different ships. Do I need to deflate, reverse or something to "clear" the centrifuge?

I should mention that I have RPM v. 0.16 which I think is the latest.

Edited June 5, 2014 by DivisionByZero

[Angelo Kerman]

I really enjoy this mod, the inflatable habitats and command module are great. I have two craft that use the TMA-1 orb as well as the centrifuge. I too, however, have run into a state where I can't add a kerbonaut to a spinning centrifuge. I'd happily debug the problem if the source code where available. Meanwhile, the only thing I can think of is to pull the inhabitants out of the centrifuge, then stop the spin.

[Pockrtplanesairways]

Porky, are there any more parts/IVAs that you are working on?

[wasmic]

Love the mod, but only the Orbital Orb and Centrifuge will hold crew. Am I doing something wrong?

You have to inflate them before adding Kerbals to them. This means that they can't be launched with crew in them - the crew has to go up in a separate launch, or at least on a separate module.

[CptRichardson]

Uh, where do I download at?

[Starwaster]

Uh, where do I download at?

First page.

First post.

Look for the word 'download'

[TampaPowers]

Once deployed and spinning i can't seem to stop it anymore thus my kerbals are stuck in eva. Any ideas?

[Starwaster]

Once deployed and spinning i can't seem to stop it anymore thus my kerbals are stuck in eva. Any ideas?

You're not supposed to have to stop it. The reason you can't enter is because there's a bug with the animations or the habitat plugin. There's a workaround that I posted above. If you change the module for the spinning animation to FSanimateGeneric (instead of ModuleAnimateGeneric) you'll be able to enter and exit the habitat once it's inflated, regardless of whether you set it spinning or not.

[TampaPowers]

It be cool to have that fixed in a way since it also prevents internal crew transfer from happening.

[rhoark]

Are there any pics of the deflated forms?

Also, what this needs is an inflatable 1 kerbal pod that stows to a KAS backpack. At least, I need that.