[1.0.x] Habitat Pack v0.41

[DMSP]

@Porkjet, is it possible that Habitat Pack V2 will be coming in the next few months now that 1.1 is out?

It would be awesome to have those habitats!

[Porkjet]

I hope so yea. Still haven't fully figured out the blendshapes (morph animations) tho. Was kinda putting all my hopes on that working with the new part tools.

[electronicfox]

2 hours ago, Porkjet said:

I hope so yea. Still haven't fully figured out the blendshapes (morph animations) tho. Was kinda putting all my hopes on that working with the new part tools.

When I did morph animations for an unfolding blimp part, I managed to bake the blend animation to a number of joints. It ended up being like 200 joints, but it didnt seem to affect performance too badly. With the parts I've seen for this mod, you could probably use a similar setup. 

Alternaively, I believe these inflating animations can be replicated with just a few manually animated joints (If you'd be willing to send me just one of the models, I can confirm this for you). Its far cheaper than many joints baked from a blendshape animation, and I believe will have near enough to the same results.

[davidy12]

6 hours ago, Porkjet said:

I hope so yea. Still haven't fully figured out the blendshapes (morph animations) tho. Was kinda putting all my hopes on that working with the new part tools.

So do the new part tools work?

NVM. I look forward to the new modules.

Edited April 20, 2016 by davidy12
Cleared up.

[Porkjet]

3 hours ago, electronicfox said:

When I did morph animations for an unfolding blimp part, I managed to bake the blend animation to a number of joints. It ended up being like 200 joints, but it didnt seem to affect performance too badly. With the parts I've seen for this mod, you could probably use a similar setup. 

Alternaively, I believe these inflating animations can be replicated with just a few manually animated joints (If you'd be willing to send me just one of the models, I can confirm this for you). Its far cheaper than many joints baked from a blendshape animation, and I believe will have near enough to the same results.

That was my original plan. It's easy enough for simple inflatables, but horror for complex stuff like centrifuges. And there's another problem. Scaling bones doesn't affect the normals of the mesh. So if I manipulate a spherical module wby scaling some bones to take up a cylindrical shape, the normals and way the mesh is shaded will still behave as if it was spherical. And normals in KSP aren't just a visual thing anymore, they also affect how drag cubes are generated. Faulty normals = faulty drag cubes. We learned that the hard way with the inflatable heat shield. Had to resort to folding it down with a bunch of radial bones rotating in like the spokes of an umbrella just to manipulate the normal halfway decently, that took many hours of nasty manual tweaking. I was hoping to be able to avoid those problems with the new part tools but looks like I'll have to stick to the nasty and time consuming bone workflow for now. At least slightly incorrect drag cubes aren't a big problem for these space modules i guess

Edited April 20, 2016 by Porkjet

[davidy12]

1 minute ago, Porkjet said:

That was my original plan. It's easy enough for simple inflatables, but horror for complex stuff like centrifuges. And there's another problem. Scaling bones doesn't affect the normals of the mesh. So if I manipulate a spherical module wby scaling some bones to take up a cylindrical shape, the normals and way the mesh is shaded will still behave as if it was spherical. And normals in KSP aren't just a visual thing anymore, they also affect how drag cubes are generated. Faulty normals = faulty drag cubes. We learned that the hard way with the inflatable heat shield. Had to resort to folding it down with a bunch of radial bones rotating in like the spokes of an umbrella just to manipulate the normal halfway decently, that took many hours of nasty manual tweaking. I was hoping to be able to avoid those problems with the new part tools but looks like I'll have to stick to the nasty and time consuming bone workflow for now.

So, its coming slowly but surely. 

Hopefully it'll be out soon. Just take your time  

[IGNOBIL]

7 hours ago, Porkjet said:

I hope so yea. Still haven't fully figured out the blendshapes (morph animations) tho. Was kinda putting all my hopes on that working with the new part tools.

I'm having the same problem with the morph animations for my TDRS, hope you find a solution

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, Porkjet said:

At least slightly incorrect drag cubes aren't a big problem for these space modules i guess

Really? I was hoping to use them for aerobraking

P.S. You think I'm kidding, don't you...

Edited April 20, 2016 by Starwaster
post scriptum

[electronicfox]

17 hours ago, Porkjet said:

That was my original plan. It's easy enough for simple inflatables, but horror for complex stuff like centrifuges. And there's another problem. Scaling bones doesn't affect the normals of the mesh. So if I manipulate a spherical module wby scaling some bones to take up a cylindrical shape, the normals and way the mesh is shaded will still behave as if it was spherical. And normals in KSP aren't just a visual thing anymore, they also affect how drag cubes are generated. Faulty normals = faulty drag cubes. We learned that the hard way with the inflatable heat shield. Had to resort to folding it down with a bunch of radial bones rotating in like the spokes of an umbrella just to manipulate the normal halfway decently, that took many hours of nasty manual tweaking. I was hoping to be able to avoid those problems with the new part tools but looks like I'll have to stick to the nasty and time consuming bone workflow for now. At least slightly incorrect drag cubes aren't a big problem for these space modules i guess

I hadnt realised normals had such an effect now, so yeah that will kinda bum out the quick and simple joints method.

Is there a way to overwrite the drag-cubes system? Maybe have an invisible mesh around the parts that is used to generate the drag cubes? It would most likely require a new plugin that tells KSP to ignore the visible mesh and calculate from the invisible one and I have no idea how difficult that would be to create.

[Gryphorim]

Is it really that big of a deal? I don't really see these being exposed to any high velocity airflow at all. They'd be in fairings or behind heatshields for all but maybe the last stages of a Duna or Laythe descent anyway, wouldn't they?

I want to ask for an alpha release of new habs, with a "do not expose to high winds or you may invoke kraken" disclaimer, but I understand that you're probably not comfortable releasing in that state.

 

On a side note, is there anyone here who would use these on Eve? Strikes me as odd to use an inflatable hab in high pressure atmo.

[Porkjet]

Drag cubes can be overidden yes, I could do that if necessary. But it probably really isn't that big of a deal I guess.

@Gryphorim I guess in reality since they rely on pressure for structural stability, they'll allways need to have higher pressure on the inside. So at 5atm at eve sealevel they'd need ...6atm inside? Not a problem to do probably, but nothing we have to worry about in KSP anyway

[Kerbart]

@Porkjet said:

“ @Gryphorim I guess in reality since they rely on pressure for structural stability, they'll allways need to have higher pressure on the inside. So at 5atm at eve sealevel they'd need ...6atm inside? Not a problem to do probably, but nothing we have to worry about in KSP anyway  ”

Actually, I heard on The Orbital Mechanics podcast this week (episode 54) that such is not the case—at least not with the Bigelow units. Which is why Bigelow insists on calling them expandable, not inflatable (let alone “blow up”). Of course, the Kerbals might have taken an entirely different approach to the concept of extendable units, as “blow up” does not have to seem the stigma in Kerbal Kulture that it has in ours...

 

(Sorry for the crappy quoting, but even in Chrome for the desktop I could not get it to work today)

[Gryphorim]

5atm at Eve sealevel. Wow shows how often I bother to go there. I thought it was like 90atm. More like Venus.

[hsteffano]

Sorry to bother, but, is it supposed to not be working on 1.1? I'm using the latest version 0.41

This is what I get when loading a centrifuge:

Spoiler

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by hsteffano

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, hsteffano said:

Sorry to bother, but, is it supposed to not be working on 1.1? I'm using the latest version 0.41

This is what I get when loading a centrifuge:

  Hide contents

 

I get the same thing. Everything except the centrifuge is functional. Obviously its colliders have issues, and AFAIK his next release is going to be all new parts with a brand new versions of the centrifuge and FLAT.

[ZentroCatson]

You're doing some excellent work here, @Porkjet! The parts look amazing and I'm already daydreaming of putting them on interplanetary ships and space stations. I hope you'll find a quick way of making the centrifuges work. Maybe you could release the already working parts in an alpha test release? Also, I don't want to pester you, or, as a wise Kerb said "poke around in the bears cave", but how are things looking on the IVA part of things?

[cheshirejak]

Any news @Porkjet ? My kerbals lust for some inflatable companions on this space station I'm putting together.

[DiceCaller]

I agree with Zentro.  Some is better than none...  Alpha, Beta; I don't care, just give me a little taste.  I don't even care about new IVAs, the old ones where great!

[Kerbart]

Aside from the centrifuge the rest of the .41 (current) release seems to work fine in 1.1.2

Which is good news; Porkjet can take his time in making the new version even more awesome.

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

Any chance of a BEAM/BEAM Airlock? Also, is it 1.1 compatible at all?

[Kerbart]

3 minutes ago, MajorLeaugeRocketScience said:

(...) Also, is it 1.1 compatible at all?

Check out the post just above yours.

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

Ok lol sorry

[Starstrider42]

Quick question about the new models Porkjet is working on: if I install 0.41 (sans centrifuge) and then upgrade to the upcoming release, will that break existing crafts?

[StevieC]

do the landing-legs in this parts-pack work in 1.1.2?

[AdmiralSirJohn]

Nice to know the inflatable parts (other than the centrifuges) work well in 1.1.2.  I can now replace the Tantares inflatable on my ISS replica with something that looks a bit more like the Bigelow unit...