[1.8.x] DMagic Orbital Science: New Science Parts [v1.4.3] [11/2/2019]

[smjjames]

[quote name='DMagic']All of the magnetometer resource scanners are supposed to be set at 60km max altitude, I just forget to set the stock Ore sensor, though I did set the SCANsat sensors properly.

The idea is that the magnetometer is unlocked early and is not meant to be a replacement for the narrow-band scanner, it can only be used at very low altitudes.

I don't see how any of this would affect the UKS parts, the modules added to the magnetometer, and the Module Manager configs used for the SCANsat sensors and the CRP resources are targeted only to my parts.

And what do you mean that the ore scanner function doesn't work? There may be an issue because of the mismatch between the different Ore scanner configs' max altitudes, but it should otherwise be working fine.[/QUOTE]

Well, I was trying to scan Kerbin and have stock scanning off, so, I'm not sure. I'm doing some testing on my branchoff KSP to see what's happening with it.

[smjjames]

Looks like a SCANsat type issue, I've made a short video attempting to explain what I mean. I'll post on the SCANsat thread.

[More Boosters]

Hello, I have a question, I landed on East Farside Crater and did the DAN test, it mentioned that there was barely any hydrogen there at all, but in game there is "Ore" there that you can harvest. I'm confused, is it that there is a lack of a specific form of hydrogen? Because otherwise I shouldn't be able to run my drills here.

[cantab]

There's no game mechanics reason for the science messages to agree in any way with the resource scanning system.

[More Boosters]

[quote name='cantab']There's no game mechanics reason for the science messages to agree in any way with the resource scanning system.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but the mod adds some meaning to science and actually differs from place to place to a noticeable degree and I would like to know why that particular crater is supposed to not have hydrogen. Is it like an analogy for a real crater on the Moon where this is the case?

[DMagic]

Resource distribution is random. Science results text are not.

Most results have some basis in reality, but generally don't match any specific example (Duna is probably the planet where the results most closely resemble its real-life analog). Science results for RSS planets are much more closely based on reality.

[ktosiu]

Hi, I'm early in my new game with the latest DMOS installed. I have the telescope, thermometer and the magboom unlocked in career mode, but I'm not seeing any new contracts. Just the usual part tests, tourist ferries and visual observations. No instrument measurements. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong?

[Eunomiac]

I can't get enough of your mods, DMagic---your attention to detail, balance, and integration with other mods is just phenomenal. I'm slowly working towards creating a modpack (the first modpack?) for KSP, and so I'm trying to understand the mods in as much detail as I can. After reading through the forum discussions and online documentation (which is great---thanks!), I still have [B]just a few questions regarding the interaction between Orbital Science and SCANsat[/B].

[LIST][*][B]What SCANsat settings are ideal when using [B]SCANsat[/B] alongside Orbital Science?[/B] The [URL="https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/249#top-3b-scansat-scanning-mode"]SCANsat Documentation, §3(b)[/URL] describes [I]"two levels of SCANsat Scanning Mode"[/I]---one disables "Instant Scanning", the other disables "Stock Scanning".[LIST]
[*]I DISABLED Instant Scanning, and my Orbital Science Magnetometer gained the "Start Ore Scan" option---so this is the setting I've kept. Are there any reasons why I might consider using another setting(s) instead?[/LIST]

[*][B]Could you please clarify the "Resource Biome Lock" and "Requires Narrow Band Scanner" options?[/B] The descriptions in [URL="https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/249#top-3c-resource-setting"]SCANsat Documentation, §3(c)[/URL] left me with a few unanswered questions:
[LIST]
[*][U]Resource Biome Lock[/U] -- [I]"With this option active, biomes will need to be scanned from the surface to obtain accurate resource abundance reading on SCANsat maps."[/I]
[LIST]
[*]Must the biome scan be completed [I]before[/I] starting the resource scan? Or, will previously-acquired resource scanning data become more accurate after a biome scan is performed later?
[*]What is meant by [I]"from the surface"[/I]? Is a standard orbital biome scan insufficient?
[/LIST]
[*][U]Requires Narrow Band Scanner[/U] -- [I]"With this active the zoom map will only display resource overlays when a suitable Narrow-Band Scanner is in orbit around the planet, and its orbit covers the region showed in the zoom map."[/I]
[LIST]
[*]So, to see resources in the zoom map, a Narrow-Band Scanner must be [I]currently [/I]in orbit around the planet---even if I've already completed a full resource scan of the planet?
[*]Does the Narrow-Band Scanner have to be [B](A)[/B] directly over the zoom map location, [B]OR (B)[/B] on an orbit whose current trajectory (as shown by the blue and orange dots on the SCANsat map) flies over the zoom map location, [B]OR (C)[/B] on an orbit that has, at some point in the past, flown over the zoom map location, [B]OR (D)[/B] something else?
[/LIST]
[/LIST]

[*][B]What is the [I]"alternate version [of the Orbital Telescope] available with SCANsat module"[/I]? [/B]How does it differ from the default version? Do I need to configure anything to enable it, or does it automagically switch to the SCANsat version upon detecting SCANsat is installed?
[/LIST]
Finally, an idea I had for the Orbital Telescope: [B]How about making the Orbital Telescope a large Science Lab-type structure that generates Science (or Data) slowly over time while in orbit?[/B] I think this would give the Orbital Telescope a unique feel, distinguishing it from other "bolt-on" science experiments---not to mention giving it behaviour that more-accurately models real-world orbital telescopes: big, expensive things that stay in orbit for extended periods, and contribute a steady stream of Science over the course of their missions.

Thanks again for all your work on this great mod!

[cantab]

My two pence:

[I]What SCANsat settings are ideal when using SCANsat alongside Orbital Science?[/I] - Whatever you like using with ScanSAT normally. As far as scansat use goes, DMagic just adds alternative scan parts really.

[I]Could you please clarify the "Resource Biome Lock[/I] - In stock, the big ore scanner dish makes a crude map that reports the same concentration everywhere in a biome. To get a precise map you need to land a ship with the surface scanner instrument and use that. Using it at one point in a biome makes the map show precise concentrations at every point in that biome. Now the ScanSAT "resource biome lock" option retains that behaviour for scansat maps. Turning it off makes scansat maps show precise concentrations everywhere.

Really I'd say what to do depends on whether you want to keep the stock behaviour (but benefit from ScanSAT's map interface and so on) or want to completely replace it with a different approach to resource scanning.

[DMagic]

See the [URL="https://github.com/S-C-A-N/SCANsat/wiki"]SCANsat wiki[/URL] for the best and most up-to-date information on resource scanning and other SCANsat functions.

The biome scanning refers to the stock biome scan from the surface using the Surface Scanning Module (there are some SCANsat images that show the difference before and after surface scans). The narrow band requirement for zoom maps is option B in your question (there is some leeway in how closely the orbit must match the zoom map location).

The alternate version of the telescope is out-of-date, I removed that line from Kerbal Stuff description. SCANsat modules are included for the imaging platform (it functions the same as the SCANsat multispectral scanner) and for the anomaly scanner (which functions the same as the SCANsat BTDT). The magnetometer, imaging platform, and soil moisture sensor also function as resource scanners, both for SCANsat and stock scanning. The X-Ray surface analyzer functions as a stock resource biome scanner.

I have some plans for additional large telescopes (and another update which I'm getting closer to finishing with a new seismic experiment and an underwater experiment). The initial plan is for these telescopes (and a few other large parts) to function primarily as contract parts. More varied experiment types for existing parts are also vaguely planned, but nothing is likely to come for a while. :sticktongue:

[TomatoSoup]

I am confused by the SCANSat integration for parts such as the Soil Moisture Sensor and Magnetometer.

 

Their descriptions in the VAB list the SCANresource Scanner, but I do not have any option to use them as a resource scanner while in flight. I can see % concentrations when I activate them, but nothing is updated on the SCANSat maps.

 

Have I misunderstood the purpose of the SCANsat integration? Is there some unlock required before I can use it?

[mcortez]

First let me offer my thanks for the great mod!  I've been making extensive use of it on my current career play-thru and have only run into two snags.  One being that I'm getting the Universal Storage versions of parts available during construction, even though I don't have Universal Storage installed -- not a big deal, I just ignore them.

The other is that I'm doing a lot of scripting with kOS and was attempting to make an automated science probe.  I've been having a conversation with the kOS folks over on reddit and we've run into a minor roadblock on accessing the science experiments.  Essentially kOS attempts to dynamically identify all the KSP Fields, Events and Actions of any Part Modules on a ship and makes those available to scripts.  I've been able to use the existing system to pull Biome information from those parts that have it (like the Multi-Spectral Imager) and I've been able to fire off Events & Actions to deploy and retract the various experiments.  The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way that the kOS folks can hook into your Module Parts to trigger a science experiment without also opening the Science Review dialog window.

I was wondering if it might be possible to add a helper function, or adjust your existing  DeployExperiment()  method in the DMModuleScienceAnimate  class to allow an option for doing so without opening the review window?  

Perhaps something like:

new public virtual void DeployExperiment(bool silently)

And then pass that to the  runExperiment() method where it could then not call the ReviewData()  or  initialResultsPage() methods.

protected void runExperiment(ExperimentSituations sit, bool silently)

 

The reddit conversation can be found at:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kos/comments/3vzhcw/dmagics_orbital_science/

Thanks!

[DMagic]

17 hours ago, mcortez said:

First let me offer my thanks for the great mod!  I've been making extensive use of it on my current career play-thru and have only run into two snags.  One being that I'm getting the Universal Storage versions of parts available during construction, even though I don't have Universal Storage installed -- not a big deal, I just ignore them.

The other is that I'm doing a lot of scripting with kOS and was attempting to make an automated science probe.  I've been having a conversation with the kOS folks over on reddit and we've run into a minor roadblock on accessing the science experiments.

Do you still have a US folder hanging around somewhere, or did you install and remove it at some point? I'm guessing that the parts found there way into your list of researched parts from the tech tree. After that happens they might still show up in the editor (though I thought that shouldn't happen because their editor category should be set to none; maybe when they added all of the new editor filters it negated that). Either way, if you don't want to see them you can just delete the Universal Storage folder within my folder; the presence or absence of those parts shouldn't affect anything unless you have active vessels with those parts on them.

 

As for kOS, no it's not possible to add an argument to the DeployExperiment event. For one, that method overrides the ModuleScienceExperiment method, so adding an argument to it, even one with a default value, will be understood as creating a new overload method with the same name, but different arguments, so the new keyword won't do anything. And also, I'm not sure if you can add arguments to KSPEvent methods, I've never seen any. It's also not possible to stop using that event to trigger the experiments since other addons count on using that method.

I've been tinkering around with a way to make it work more like the stock ModuleScienceExperiment though. Instead of handling everything within the DeployExperiment method, I can let that method call a second method, which can have an argument added, and handle everything there. From that point it's simple to avoid opening the review data window.

The second science data list that you saw is used for experiments that can store more than one data set at a time. Those experiments don't add their data to the internal list until you actually press the keep data button (the standard experiments add the data to the list before opening the review data window), but that also shouldn't be a problem. If the silent flag is toggled then all data will be stored immediately if possible.

There might also be an issues caused by the built in delay that many of my experiments have between starting the event and actually adding the science data. There isn't much that can be done about that without some major changes. But in any event, the IScienceDataContainer interface methods will show data as soon as it has been added, so you might just have to introduce a bit of a delay in kOS before transmitting data.

[mcortez]

10 hours ago, DMagic said:

Do you still have a US folder hanging around somewhere, or did you install and remove it at some point?

Actually, now that you bring it up -- I did originally install both US and MKS-Lite at the same time, but then removed US after only a single play through.  So that's probably what happened.

 

10 hours ago, DMagic said:

Instead of handling everything within the DeployExperiment method, I can let that method call a second method, which can have an argument added, and handle everything there. From that point it's simple to avoid opening the review data window.

I think that would probably be perfect.  I see you've commented on the kOS github issue for this, thank you very much for taking the time to look into it!  kOS already has some custom code for integrating into RemoteTech, and the Alarm clock mod and I think some support for Orbital Magic would be a nice addition to it's capabilities.

 

10 hours ago, DMagic said:

There might also be an issues caused by the built in delay that many of my experiments have between starting the event and actually adding the science data.

There are some similar issues with the stock experiments, although not nearly as long (since they don't have long multi-second animations) -- but they too don't have data available right away.  kOS provides a mechanism for checking to see if the data is available yet and we have to initiate the experiments and check back regularly until the data is available.

 

[DMagic]

Version 1.1 is out; get it on Kerbal Stuff.

The latest version includes two new experiments: an undersea sensor and a multi-part seismic wave experiment.

The undersea experiment can only be used when the part itself is fully submerged. You can collect data from shallow and deep waters; the depth threshold can be adjusted in the part's config file and is shown in the part's VAB/SPH description. The part also includes a light.

The seismic experiment is made up of two parts: the seismic impact hammer and the seismic sensor pod. Each part can be used individually to gain some science, but should be used together to maximize science gain.

• Seismic Impact Hammer
  • Detects the hammer's orientation with respect to the surface automatically and adjusts its orientation accordingly; this allows for the part to be placed vertically (like an ore drill) or on top of a rover.
  • The hammer must contact the surface to function; there is a minimum and maximum distance from which the hammer will work; test your designs.
  • Two signal lights on the front of the instrument indicate the presence of nearby sensor pods
  • The lights on the side indicate the current science value
  • Can be used on asteroids; maximize science by having at least one sensor pod attached to the same asteroid.
• Seismic Sensor Pod
  • Should be placed at varying distance from the impact hammer to maximize science gain; the ideal distances are shown in the parts' VAB/SPH description and can be configured in the Resources/Contract_Experiments_DM.cfg file.
  • Place two sensor pods, one close by, and one far away at a different angles for maximum science.
  • Built in decoupler can be used to drop off the sensor pods; they have very high impact tolerance and will be automatically activated when separated.
  • Sensor pods also have signal and science value indicator lights.
  • If a seismic impact hammer is nearby the experiment will use the science value from that part to generate the science data.

The Seismic parts include KIS support and can be placed by an EVA Kerbal. This can be a little wonky sometimes, the safest method is to make sure the sensor pods are disabled before trying to move them, then reactivate them once they are moved. Saving and reloading will re-initialize the sensors properly if there are any problems.

Let me know if anyone runs into bugs or issues with the new parts, or has any suggestions about how they work or can be improved.

 

 

 

ChangeLog:

Spoiler

v1.1
-  Added underwater experiment
   - Can only be used while underwater
   - Can collect two data sets: in shallow and deep water; the threshold depth is configurable
   - Also includes a light

- Added seismic impact hammer experiment
   - Multi-part experiment; includes the impact hammer and seismic sensor pods
   - Each part can be used individually to gain some science; use in conjunction to increase science
   - Use two sensor parts positioned at varying distances and angles from the impact hammer to maximize science
   - Sensor pods have a built-in decoupler and are have a very high impact tolerance
   - Can be used on asteroids; have at least one sensor pod on the same asteroid to maximize science
   - The impact hammer must contact the surface to function; test your designs
   - The impact hammer will automatically detect the surface orientation with respect to the hammer and rotate to compensate

- New science results text

- Bug fixes and misc.
    - Fix animations when resetting some experiments
    - Clarify anomalous signal contract requirements
    - Magnetometer only functions as a stock ore scanner
    - Some kOS compatibility changes
    - Fix stock part and experiment request contract descriptions

Edited December 13, 2015 by DMagic

[Glaran K'erman]

Woot, new science!

[Shamus6200]

Always the best DMagic! Thank you for the new goodies and your hard work.

[rottielover]

Quote

-  Added underwater experiment
   - Can only be used while underwater
   - Can collect two data sets: in shallow and deep water; the threshold depth is configurable
   - Also includes a light

I've been doing a little reading on submarines in KSP and I'm curious if you're recommending another mod in order to accomplish getting this into deep water.  

[DMagic]

22 minutes ago, rottielover said:

I've been doing a little reading on submarines in KSP and I'm curious if you're recommending another mod in order to accomplish getting this into deep water.  

Stock submarines don't feel quite ready for prime time given how hard it is to make something sink. So far the only reasonable way seems to be to fill up some ore tanks (the one in my pictures has 5 large ore tanks almost completely full, though something smaller probably wouldn't require so much). Sending out empty tanks and filling them up at the target is probably the best way to handle it, rather than carrying around a bunch of heavy structural parts or full ore tanks everywhere you go. Really anything that can sink should be able to get down deep enough to get both types of science reports though.

That said, @RoverDude has, or is planning to release a standalone (I think?) submarine mod with proper parts; something that actually makes sense, rather than just piling on extra weight. Something like that would probably be the best way to go for now.

Edited December 14, 2015 by DMagic

[TMR]

The new science is really nice, but I find the part volume of the Seismic Impact Hammer (11396,20 L) a bit much. This makes the the large KIS ILC-18K Container needed to transport it, since the smaller ILC-6K is to small. It does however easily fit (in height) outside a ILC-6K Container, so why not inside?

Is the volume really correct, or has a typo managed to sneak in? Had the 3D model been larger I could have accepted the volume, but it is not.

[TMR]

21 minutes ago, TMR said:

The new science is really nice, but I find the part volume of the Seismic Impact Hammer (11396,20 L) a bit much. This makes the the large KIS ILC-18K Container needed to transport it, since the smaller ILC-6K is to small. It does however easily fit (in height) outside a ILC-6K Container, so why not inside?

Is the volume really correct, or has a typo managed to sneak in? Had the 3D model been larger I could have accepted the volume, but it is not.

It also pops up and become ridiculously large when mounted on a kerbals jetpack.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

1 minute ago, TMR said:

It also pops up and become ridiculously large when mounted on a kerbals jetpack.

The problem is that it uses rescaleFactor and a MODEL node.  There's a bug in KSP with those variables that trips up KIS into thinking that the hammer is 4.1667 (= 1/0.24) times as large as it really is.  (DMagic, the fix is to set "scale" inside the MODEL node to be 0.24, 0.24, 0.24, rescaleFactor = 1, and the node's z-coordinate at 0.0252.  Similarly for the seismic sensor pod -- scale = 2, 2, 2, rescaleFactor = 1, node_attach = 0.08, ...)

[vardicd]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2015 at 7:29 PM, DMagic said:

Stock submarines don't feel quite ready for prime time given how hard it is to make something sink. So far the only reasonable way seems to be to fill up some ore tanks (the one in my pictures has 5 large ore tanks almost completely full, though something smaller probably wouldn't require so much). Sending out empty tanks and filling them up at the target is probably the best way to handle it, rather than carrying around a bunch of heavy structural parts or full ore tanks everywhere you go. Really anything that can sink should be able to get down deep enough to get both types of science reports though.

That said, @RoverDude has, or is planning to release a standalone (I think?) submarine mod with proper parts; something that actually makes sense, rather than just piling on extra weight. Something like that would probably be the best way to go for now.

I found a simple air dropped probe can do it. drop a full small liquid tank, the one that matches the new juno engine, with a stack separator, and a parachute, with the new experiment. you'll want a small probe core for control. drop it in flight, circle till its in the water, then land, switch back to probe. the combined weight will cause it to sink slowly. get science and recover. {bonus points, triggering the stack separator and blowing off the parachute, probe losses just enough mass to return to the surface.}

[smjjames]

Hey DMagic, looks like you're going to have to patch DMagic Orbital Science for the same problem with similar contracts. Also, there is some sort of glitch happening with Contract Configurator that may or may not be related to your stuff: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/91625-105-contract-configurator-v191-2015-12-15/&page=85#comment-2334137

 

[DMagic]

3 hours ago, smjjames said:

Hey DMagic, looks like you're going to have to patch DMagic Orbital Science for the same problem with similar contracts.

This doesn't use CC and that is expected behavior. 

Magnetic field survey contracts are given once per celestial body, per difficulty. So Kerbin system bodies will have three possible offers; one star contracts aren't offered outside of the Kerbin system, so the rest will only have two offers, and the sun only offer a three star contract (I think).