totm june 2018 Work-in-Progress [WIP] Design Thread

[SHaFT7]

How do you get the nuke to work when embedded in with the jet? Everytime I do it, i end up cutting fuel flow from the tanks to the engines?

[ScriptKitt3h]

How do you get the nuke to work when embedded in with the jet? Everytime I do it, i end up cutting fuel flow from the tanks to the engines?

I partclip (quite a bit, and I'm not ashamed to say it), and the Nuke has a separate set of fuel lines plumbed to it from the Jet, with a tiny 90 LF fuel tank (1.25 m) inside the MK2 fuselage fuel tank with all the LFO.

Think of it this way:

Fuel drainage outline:

1. Fuel lines go in between all the fuel tanks (part clipping enabled to allow lines inside the airframe), and then are attached to each engine independently.

2. The engines drain fuel from the pure LF tank clipped inside first, since the Turbojet engine only needs LF.

3. The engines finally drain fuel from the main LF/O fuselage tank, since the engine that'll most likely be used once the jet is no longer needed is the LV-N, which uses LF/O mix (in stock KSP).

That help at all?

EDIT: also, I placed the LV-N clipped inside so that only the nozzle (where the thrust originates from in-game) is flush/recessed into the jet's thrust nozzle, which is possible since the jet engines in KSP have really small thrust colliders, meaning that you don't risk blocking the engine thrust as much when designing custom-made propulsion systems and engine housings.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ScriptKitt3h

[Rune]

How do you get the nuke to work when embedded in with the jet? Everytime I do it, i end up cutting fuel flow from the tanks to the engines?

I think this will help you a bit more: Fuel flow is cut when you use attachment nodes more than once. So, don't use them more than once. If you are going to put a clipped nuke inside or whatever, create an EXTRA node for it with a small cubic strut surface-mounted. THAT's how you get a clipped design that draws fuel fine without fuel lines. After that, the furthest tank by number of distinct connections will drain first, and you can balance fuel draw if you put two tanks the same number of connections away from the engine. There's some great fuel flow tutorial by Kashua somewhere that also deals with how to get air into the engines you want and choose which one flames out first...

Rune. One of the reasons my designs use like half the parts.

[Roflcopterkklol]

I know the SR-73 is not a thing that exists... but it is going to be.

[Bartybum]

I've been working on this babe here Built with TweakScale, IR and Kerbal Foundries. What's youse all think about her?

[Roflcopterkklol]

Still has 8 turbo jets, have a version on reserve that is cut down to 6 if this does not work.

people that dont like part clipping must hate me.

Should be a beast, i mean it has 4 times as many engines as my SR-72 and that does mach 7.

[Rune]

Still has 8 turbo jets, have a version on reserve that is cut down to 6 if this does not work.

people that dont like part clipping must hate me.

Should be a beast, i mean it has 4 times as many engines as my SR-72 and that does mach 7.

http://i.imgur.com/WGEQRTv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r1mUbxM.jpg

I'm not against pat clipping, and I don't have anything against you, I reiterate that because this post may come across bit harsh. But for the nth time, doubling on engines is a bad idea. You burn fuel faster, and you are lugging much more weight around. And drag will still make you go just about as fast. I predict much worse performance than the previous plane, where I thought you were finally getting the TWR and Mass ratio concepts. I will state this again: the performance of a single stage is fixed around engine TWR and tank fuel ratio. There is a maximum balanced performance possible, and to get more delta-v the only way to go is lowering TWR, or viceversa. Consider this: in order to go faster on SSTOs before turning on the rocket, people throttle down the jet engine to make it run higher: why would you do that if TWR had anything to do with maximum velocity in atmo?

Rune. Terminal velocity depends on altitude. In the stock "souposphere", going anything faster than that is wasteful. Period.

[Roflcopterkklol]

I'm not against pat clipping, and I don't have anything against you, I reiterate that because this post may come across bit harsh. But for the nth time, doubling on engines is a bad idea. You burn fuel faster, and you are lugging much more weight around. And drag will still make you go just about as fast. I predict much worse performance than the previous plane, where I thought you were finally getting the TWR and Mass ratio concepts. I will state this again: the performance of a single stage is fixed around engine TWR and tank fuel ratio. There is a maximum balanced performance possible, and to get more delta-v the only way to go is lowering TWR, or viceversa. Consider this: in order to go faster on SSTOs before turning on the rocket, people throttle down the jet engine to make it run higher: why would you do that if TWR had anything to do with maximum velocity in atmo?

Rune. Terminal velocity depends on altitude. In the stock "souposphere", going anything faster than that is wasteful. Period.

point of this plane is to fly as fast as possible below 25km man, not trying to get it into orbit if i wanted to do that i would put a nuclear engine on the original plane and fill the OX tank up lol.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25884-Kerbin-Circumnavigation-Challenge-Reloaded-New-Rules-Once-More

anyway it is for this, just having some fun man.

Edit:

Btw rune you must have missed White Lightning because i totally have not learned at all lol, still like making my stupid craft.

Take off

10km

15km

21km

25km

30km

34km

40km

100km orbit

Map view of 100km orbit

Accelerating to a more distant position

2000km orbit seems nice, with a lot of fuel left over too.

Map view of 2000km orbit... a lot of fuel left in the reserve tanks.... this journey is not over!

To the Mun!

Hi mun!

This was a pretty scenic picture imo

in 140-150km orbit

in 110-15km orbit

Close fly bye

That was quick, bye mun!

Back to kerbin we go

in 4600km orbit - 500km orbit

Back at kerbin in a snug 500km orbit!

Map view, Lets land this bad boy

Going down (apo aps is at 5km)

easy does it on the way down, not quite so heavy anymore, dont want to stall it

this big missing section is where i totally did not stall it on the way down and have a few very tense moments that did not end until 5000 meters, not at all.

Touch down! with over 2k LF and nearly 3k OX after going to a circle 2000km orbit then into munar orbit followed by low pass followed by a return to 500km orbit before de orbit and landing, what a mouth full.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Roflcopterkklol

[Rune]

point of this plane is to fly as fast as possible below 25km man, not trying to get it into orbit if i wanted to do that i would put a nuclear engine on the original plane and fill the OX tank up lol.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25884-Kerbin-Circumnavigation-Challenge-Reloaded-New-Rules-Once-More

anyway it is for this, just having some fun man.

Edit:

Btw rune you must have missed White Lightning because i totally have not learned at all lol, still like making my stupid craft.

Take off

http://i.imgur.com/njGQeOq.jpg

10km

http://i.imgur.com/lfgNj6P.jpg

15km

http://i.imgur.com/26xF1T2.jpg

21km

http://i.imgur.com/bq84OZ9.jpg

25km

http://i.imgur.com/ZKKr2CH.jpg

30km

http://i.imgur.com/Yz4jQv3.jpg

34km

http://i.imgur.com/fvaFliS.jpg

40km

http://i.imgur.com/ZIpJ27H.jpg

100km orbit

http://i.imgur.com/V4ga3WA.jpg

Map view of 100km orbit

http://i.imgur.com/SzKKSt1.jpg

Accelerating to a more distant position

http://i.imgur.com/BYsronb.jpg

2000km orbit seems nice, with a lot of fuel left over too.

http://i.imgur.com/qPJezyX.jpg

Map view of 2000km orbit... a lot of fuel left in the reserve tanks.... this journey is not over!

http://i.imgur.com/OVreYzb.jpg

To the Mun!

http://i.imgur.com/fZ0QmWM.jpg

Hi mun!

http://i.imgur.com/k1rjbQc.jpg

This was a pretty scenic picture imo

http://i.imgur.com/vuNCSvP.jpg

in 140-150km orbit

http://i.imgur.com/s5SttF7.jpg

in 110-15km orbit

http://i.imgur.com/657tTON.jpg

Close fly bye

http://i.imgur.com/3CEDvDy.jpg

That was quick, bye mun!

http://i.imgur.com/LeZQFUM.jpg

Back to kerbin we go

http://i.imgur.com/lNOuR4W.jpg

in 4600km orbit - 500km orbit

http://i.imgur.com/MTE96Jv.jpg

Back at kerbin in a snug 500km orbit!

http://i.imgur.com/XJ5khMZ.jpg

Map view, Lets land this bad boy

http://i.imgur.com/iIImzPT.jpg

Going down (apo aps is at 5km)

http://i.imgur.com/DSxndac.jpg

easy does it on the way down, not quite so heavy anymore, dont want to stall it

http://i.imgur.com/JXka224.jpg

this big missing section is where i totally did not stall it on the way down and have a few very tense moments that did not end until 5000 meters, not at all.

http://i.imgur.com/t9wP55b.jpg

Touch down! with over 2k LF and nearly 3k OX after going to a circle 2000km orbit then into munar orbit followed by low pass followed by a return to 500km orbit before de orbit and landing, what a mouth full.

http://i.imgur.com/3isuGGd.jpg

And yet I see that the only guy that managed to circumnavigate kerbin three times in that challenge, was using the single turbojet to push more fuel around than you have there. He also managed 1,2km/s sustained at under 25kms, which is 200 m/s less than what you show for the same altitude on your 18-jet monstrosity... with a small fraction of the thrust. So high TWR designs are mostly good to increase the total weight, part count and therefore lag, and decrease fuel performance. And if you are going to tell me you don't get lag with one of those because your computer is amazing (I don't doubt that), try putting four in formation flight, or docking them to a station or something like that, and tell me that's a pleasant experience. You do get a slightly faster ascent if you go T/W>1, but that's about it, and the hit you take for that is huge.

Rune. Yeah, my point still stands. If anything, you reinforced it.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Rune

[Roflcopterkklol]

And yet I see that the only guy that managed to circumnavigate kerbin three times in that challenge, was using the single turbojet to push more fuel around than you have there. He also managed 1,2km/s sustained at under 25kms, which is 200 m/s less than what you show for the same altitude on your 18-jet monstrosity... with a small fraction of the thrust. So high TWR designs are mostly good to increase the total weight, part count and therefore lag, and decrease fuel performance. And if you are going to tell me you don't get lag with one of those because your computer is amazing (I don't doubt that), try putting four in formation flight, or docking them to a station or something like that, and tell me that's a pleasant experience. You do get a slightly faster ascent if you go T/W>1, but that's about it, and the hit you take for that is huge.

Rune. Yeah, my point still stands. If anything, you reinforced it.

Yes rune i know you have not liked a single one of the craft i have uploaded, i also see you can not take a hint and stop being a prick.

Heck you even started off by saying you were going to be a prick, and then continued to be one after i tried telling you i was just trying to have some fun and also pointed fun at the fact that yes i do still make ridiculous craft because it is fun and very satisfying making something like that and have it actually work.

Where is the fun in making a plane with literally 3 different wing components 1 turbo jet and a couple ram airs? there is none.

there is a hell of a lot of fun making a larger plane fly like that one does though.

Damn it must disgust you that i would add un needed weight to a craft for no reason other than aesthetics.

[Redshift OTF]

I don't think I'm the first to try this, (maybe it was Rune?), but I was determined to get it to work.

And it does work. I hyper edited this into orbit and the Orange tank can get through the doors. It's bit tight but it works pretty well. It looks like the dark grey edges aren't solid so the tank goes through them. Now to build a space plane around it.

[Keldaria]

Yes rune i know you have not liked a single one of the craft i have uploaded, i also see you can not take a hint and stop being a prick.

Heck you even started off by saying you were going to be a prick, and then continued to be one after i tried telling you i was just trying to have some fun and also pointed fun at the fact that yes i do still make ridiculous craft because it is fun and very satisfying making something like that and have it actually work.

Where is the fun in making a plane with literally 3 different wing components 1 turbo jet and a couple ram airs? there is none.

there is a hell of a lot of fun making a larger plane fly like that one does though.

Damn it must disgust you that i would add un needed weight to a craft for no reason other than aesthetics.

Rune has unsatisfiable desire to minimize part counts. Mind you Rune knows his stuff and have developed quite a few craft that I myself love, but his motto is always do more with less. While it might not seem as fun at first slapping together minimal parts and calling it a day, the true challenge is in how you make the most out of those hand full of pieces. I myself tend to start building a craft and have it end up large and complex, there is ultimately nothing wrong with that approach. I find it truly difficult to refine my concepts down to the minimalist approach like Rune is famous for.

I guess what I'm saying is Rune is Rune, he will always try to maintain a practical and functional approach. If thats not what you're going for, then just say so and ignore any sounds to the opposite. Just keep an eye on the suggestions as I've seen quite a few elegant design choices and suggestions come from Rune that I'd never have thought about otherwise.

Build what you love, I always find your crafts worth a look Rofl, just like I find Runes crafts the same way.

[Gue__1]

I don't think I'm the first to try this, (maybe it was Rune?), but I was determined to get it to work.

snip

And it does work. I hyper edited this into orbit and the Orange tank can get through the doors. It's bit tight but it works pretty well. It looks like the dark grey edges aren't solid so the tank goes through them. Now to build a space plane around it.

A very very big spaceplane that is going to be.

Gue

[Majorjim!]

I don't think I'm the first to try this, (maybe it was Rune?), but I was determined to get it to work.

http://i.imgur.com/6C2iFYe.jpg

And it does work. I hyper edited this into orbit and the Orange tank can get through the doors. It's bit tight but it works pretty well. It looks like the dark grey edges aren't solid so the tank goes through them. Now to build a space plane around it.

Anyone know if using the cargo bays like this still cuts drag?

[GusTurbo]

Anyone know if using the cargo bays like this still cuts drag?

I don't think cargo bays cut drag yet, I thought that was a feature that was being explored close to the release of .25 that didn't make it in.

[Redshift OTF]

A very very big spaceplane that is going to be.Gue

I've just bashed this together. It's not pretty and it may not even fly but it'll be fun finding out.

Anyone know if using the cargo bays like this still cuts drag?

I'm just doing it for aesthetics sake. It would be cool if they did help.

[Rune]

Anyone know if using the cargo bays like this still cuts drag?

Actually, according to Maxmaps, "Harvester just came up with a very cool module to make parts in cargo bays not be affected by drag" ... or something to that effect. So no, not at the moment, but that might be indeed something for the aerodynamic revamp "just after 0.90".

Rune has unsatisfiable desire to minimize part counts. Mind you Rune knows his stuff and have developed quite a few craft that I myself love, but his motto is always do more with less. While it might not seem as fun at first slapping together minimal parts and calling it a day, the true challenge is in how you make the most out of those hand full of pieces. I myself tend to start building a craft and have it end up large and complex, there is ultimately nothing wrong with that approach. I find it truly difficult to refine my concepts down to the minimalist approach like Rune is famous for.

I guess what I'm saying is Rune is Rune, he will always try to maintain a practical and functional approach. If thats not what you're going for, then just say so and ignore any sounds to the opposite. Just keep an eye on the suggestions as I've seen quite a few elegant design choices and suggestions come from Rune that I'd never have thought about otherwise.

Build what you love, I always find your crafts worth a look Rofl, just like I find Runes crafts the same way.

I mostly offer comments and opinions to the people that ask for them (by, for example, posting here), usually with an eye towards teaching them stuff if I feel like I know something they don't. Results vary wildly, as you can imagine, but my rep bar is at least half because of that.

Rune. And 1K rep is just around the corner.... does something happen when you reach that, BTW? Like balloons out of the screen? Or something?

[Ravenchant]

Anyone know if using the cargo bays like this still cuts drag?

Not yet, but Harv was confirmed to work on implementing some kind of drag shielding.

As a counterpoint to the rather huge spaceplanes on the previous pages, I present my mini-shuttle. Very happy with its performance and look, but I'm at a loss how to deal with its launch system. My main thoughts are either a reusable Shuttle-style main tank or piggybacking it on another plane á la Sänger 2. What do you think?

[Mecha Pants]

I could dig that pretty thoroughly launched off the back of a jet. Even better as a place anywhere sub-assembly

[Giggleplex777]

Rune. And 1K rep is just around the corner.... does something happen when you reach that, BTW? Like balloons out of the screen? Or something?

You'll just be 100 points away from earning another light green box.

BTW I think you give me the 1000th rep point.

[zekes]

You'll just be 100 points away from earning another light green box.

BTW I think you give me the 1000th rep point.

how DO you guys get so much rep? I'm barely about to hit 400....

[Majorjim!]

how DO you guys get so much rep? I'm barely about to hit 400....

By sharing ideas and discoveries. And building kick ass stuff!

You'll just be 100 points away from earning another light green box.

BTW I think you give me the 1000th rep point.

I think that when it reaches 1000 the next bar is every 200 over that.

Fairly sure I read that the other day.

[TripleStaff]

Not yet, but Harv was confirmed to work on implementing some kind of drag shielding.

As a counterpoint to the rather huge spaceplanes on the previous pages, I present my mini-shuttle. Very happy with its performance and look, but I'm at a loss how to deal with its launch system. My main thoughts are either a reusable Shuttle-style main tank or piggybacking it on another plane á la Sänger 2. What do you think?

http://i.imgur.com/JWmRoU2.png

I really like the piggyback idea... would be interesting to see. if the "mothership" would land back at KSC after decoupling it would be even cooler. also, doing it with a large tank (STS/Buran style) is quite common...

[Rune]

how DO you guys get so much rep? I'm barely about to hit 400....

If you are a builder, share some tricks, and people think your stuff is cool... at some point you explode, and everybody reps you for everything. It's not very fair, really, we get much more interest in everything we do, which is why I try to rep the guys I know nothing about as soon as they do the slightest interesting thing. The page to direct people too is important, and the fact you build all kind of stuff for all kinds of different players.

Re: The rep bar, Jim and Giggle. I think we maxed it out, guys. I only see eight on all three of us, but your mouseover messages are way cooler than mine, I guess because I am below 1k. You guys rival Jeb!

Rune. You are kind of a focused guy, zekes. And you have your OWN kind of rep

Edited October 29, 2014 by Rune

[ScriptKitt3h]

Not yet, but Harv was confirmed to work on implementing some kind of drag shielding.

As a counterpoint to the rather huge spaceplanes on the previous pages, I present my mini-shuttle. Very happy with its performance and look, but I'm at a loss how to deal with its launch system. My main thoughts are either a reusable Shuttle-style main tank or piggybacking it on another plane á la Sänger 2. What do you think?

http://i.imgur.com/JWmRoU2.png

Wow, that smooth nose... I think I might be inclined to make an SSTO using that style frame.

Also, a carrier-plane launch system sounds awesome! I'd advise using turbojets for it, to allow higher-altitude launches.