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Work-in-Progress [WIP] Design Thread


GusTurbo

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On 6/20/2017 at 9:52 PM, Castille7 said:

Back to the rock and a hard place, do I want to rebuild this Sub for this version and all the hours of work involved :confused: or spend a few hours fixing this one? :/

I would try to fix it. Easier to fix i than start from scratch.

Try throwing random struts on it until it doesn't ... explode. Then try to pretty up the struts. Or remove them. I'm not sure if it would help, but its worth a try.

If you do start from scratch, just rebuild the back, since that's the part giving you the most problems.

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18 minutes ago, qzgy said:

I would try to fix it. Easier to fix i than start from scratch.

Try throwing random struts on it until it doesn't ... explode. Then try to pretty up the struts. Or remove them. I'm not sure if it would help, but its worth a try.

If you do start from scratch, just rebuild the back, since that's the part giving you the most problems.

I like these ideas, I did start with the struts first and will continue and I have to agree starting from scratch would be harder.

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4 hours ago, Castille7 said:

I like these ideas, I did start with the struts first and will continue and I have to agree starting from scratch would be harder.

Load it in with hack gravity on. Then see where it flexes the most, attach struts there.

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Made the first orbital flight with a 50 ton dummy payload in my new shuttle (I've made them before, just this particular one is new).

2017-06-21%2020-51-56.png

I'd already done a couple suborbital flights including RTLS and TAL type abort demonstrations. 

Still needs a few tweaks before I am ready to use it for challenges and/or share it.

I need to adjust the positioning of the external tank and booster stack, as at launch it is hard to start the gravity turn, but later I had to ditch the boosters before they had finished burning as they were starting to shove the nose below the horizon. Would also be nice, but not vital to have all the SMEs able to fire after booster sep. May or may not end up cross feeding the fuel from the boosters into the ET.

Haven't tested reentry yet, but I don't expect too much trouble given the numerous glide test I've performed and the powerful RCS system.

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
I forgot the "e" in "one". :P
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Havent had much time or incliination to play much lately, far too much going on in my life atm.

However, had a little time today and came up with this - weighs in at a shade over 1T, and will take off at 30m/s with control input, 60m/s ish without. Juno is thrust limited to 40%.

42675391AC90D5900CDE94D84EBE55EC9E207D42

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4 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Made the first orbital flight with a 50 ton dummy payload in my new shuttle (I've made them before, just this particular on is new).

2017-06-21%2020-51-56.png

 

I like the use of mk2 parts for the OMS system. Never thought of that. Also looks like you took care on the wings to make it look nice.

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51 minutes ago, qzgy said:

I like the use of mk2 parts for the OMS system. Never thought of that. Also looks like you took care on the wings to make it look nice.

Thanks! While they don't have quite as good of a wet/dry mass ratio when compared to the 1.25m tanks, they look nice and help shift the center of lift and drag back a bit, though apparently it wasn't enough to stop it from stabilizing backwards during this unmanned/simulated reentry test after losing signal and then fuel.

2017-06-22%2009-09-44.png

Though apparently crash-landing in this manner would have been survivable.

2017-06-22%2009-10-34.png

 

I have a feeling it's going to take a while to figure out the aerodynamics, as the weight of the main engines pulls the COM way aft, meaning, unless I do something silly like put the OMS at the nose, there's not really any way to keep the payload from shifting the COM significantly. :huh:

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2 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

I have a feeling it's going to take a while to figure out the aerodynamics, as the weight of the main engines pulls the COM way aft, meaning, unless I do something silly like put the OMS at the nose, there's not really any way to keep the payload from shifting the COM significantly. 

Personally, with my shuttle design, I put fuel tanks at the front to help balance it out. Fuel ca also be pumped around as ballast. At the moment, you look like you are putting all of the fuel way in the back, not really helping the whole stability thing.

V6OSO8a.png

See? Its not a replica, so I'm not quite sure if it would help in your case.

 

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45 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Personally, with my shuttle design, I put fuel tanks at the front to help balance it out. Fuel ca also be pumped around as ballast. At the moment, you look like you are putting all of the fuel way in the back, not really helping the whole stability thing.

See? Its not a replica, so I'm not quite sure if it would help in your case.

Ah yes I have considered that. Though the idea on my shuttle is to reenter with just a enough fuel left to power the RCS until the atmosphere is thick enough that the control surfaces can take over. There are 4 small oscar tanks a little in front of the COM for that.*

This thing isn't intended as a perfect replica, so I'm not too worried about from the original design. I would like it to have a clear resemblance though.

Also trying to see if there's any way I could adjust the COL/COP on the fly. Perhaps some tiny winglets could be attached at the "Mission Extender Package mounts" I have on the back of the OMS pods.

2017-06-22%2013-28-01.png

 

*I just extended these along the wing root. Gonna do some testing, maybe I've shifted the COM enough for it to stay stable throughout reentry without payload.

 

On a side note, does anyone know of a way to make sure the main engines don't start using the fuel from the OMS pods and wing root tanks other than simply disabling fuel flow on them or carefully monitoring my fuel usage and cutting the engines at the moment just before the ET is empty?

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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33 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

On a side note, does anyone know of a way to make sure the main engines don't start using the fuel from the OMS pods and wing root tanks other than simply disabling fuel flow on them or carefully monitoring my fuel usage and cutting the engines at the moment just before the ET is empty?

Yes, actually.

6XzHURO.png

In this image, the mainsail is drawing from the orange tack while the terrier draws from the two upper tanks. (OMS slightly drained cause I fired the terrier for a bit.)

Way I did this was by attaching a small i-beam and the test OMS pod stack attached onto that. No fuel flow means the mainsail doesn't draw fuel from the OMS pod

xqcWqFx.png

 

Oh, also, I heard that shielded docking ports can work as mini airbrakes. Not sure where you would put those but worth a try to move the drag vector back.

Edited by qzgy
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Phase 1 of "Operation Laythe Jumbo" is almost complete. Phase 1 being making and testing the jumbo jet: FsCQibw.jpg

It can hold 704 passengers and 4 crew, and is powered by 24 Panthers. I'm in the final stages of testing. I flew it across the ocean east of the KSC and managed to land it successfully on the peninsula, so landing is go. It's surprisingly stable in time warp, but that's probably because nearly every part of the ~460 parts is autostrutted. Cruising tests indicate that 5-6km and ~250m/s is the ideal way to go about things, assuming afterburners are enabled throughout the flight. I haven't yet tested cruising without afterburners enabled, maybe it'll work better on Laythe. 

Which brings us to Phase 2: Getting this behemoth to Laythe. It's going to be my first Jool mission that isn't just a tiny probe, so I'm looking forward to the challenges of this operation. I haven't started on that part yet, but I have a feeling it will include a lot of engines. :P 

Phase 3 will be actually circumnavigating Laythe. 

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5 minutes ago, TheEpicSquared said:

Operation Laythe Jumbo

Well, good luck with all that! Getting it in orbit is probably the hardest part. Have you tested re-entry yet? (stock hyperedit...)

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1 minute ago, qzgy said:

Well, good luck with all that! Getting it in orbit is probably the hardest part. Have you tested re-entry yet? (stock hyperedit...)

Not yet. I'm going completely stock so far, but I might have to install HyperEdit and KER just so I know what I'm doing. And I agree, getting it to orbit around Kerbin and entering the atmosphere of Laythe will be the hardest part. I'm definitely not going to try aerobraking into Laythe orbit, I'm pretty sure that would result in the wings overheating. 

Comparatively, orbital maneuvering should be a piece of cake as long as I have enough delta-v.

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3 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Ah yes I have considered that. Though the idea on my shuttle is to reenter with just a enough fuel left to power the RCS until the atmosphere is thick enough that the control surfaces can take over. There are 4 small oscar tanks a little in front of the COM for that.*

This thing isn't intended as a perfect replica, so I'm not too worried about from the original design. I would like it to have a clear resemblance though.

Also trying to see if there's any way I could adjust the COL/COP on the fly. Perhaps some tiny winglets could be attached at the "Mission Extender Package mounts" I have on the back of the OMS pods.

 

 

*I just extended these along the wing root. Gonna do some testing, maybe I've shifted the COM enough for it to stay stable throughout reentry without payload.

 

On a side note, does anyone know of a way to make sure the main engines don't start using the fuel from the OMS pods and wing root tanks other than simply disabling fuel flow on them or carefully monitoring my fuel usage and cutting the engines at the moment just before the ET is empty?

Have a look at the shuttle @sgt_flyer and I built from the Build a Kerbal Scale ISS I tested it in 1.2.2 so it should still work. We isolated fuel using docking ports and action groups, also I incorporated flakbadgers trick of a couple more vertical surfaces offset inside the body to prevent the flat spins

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KvLBR5Z.png

I've begun work on a modular exploration ship/station system.  All the components are designed to fit into a Mk 3 cargo bay for ease of launching.  I intend to recommend one of my SSTO designs for delivering the pieces to LKO.  Ultimately I hope to make a complete modular system for the exploration of the Kerbol solar system, and I may go crazy and make a colonization lineup as well.

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11 hours ago, Azimech said:

Request: who has driving experience with a real VW Beetle and would like to test my car? I want to know if I've given it a realistic handling. Stock parts, no mods needed.

I drove one once when I was younger, possibly inebriated (it was a different world 30 years ago, bite me) and remember virtually nothing about it, so possibly not much use to you.

I am however in need of some assistance with your bearings :)

This had a lot more cruft to start with, I was making a V-22 replica, I have stripped it down to as far as I can before abandoning it, the plan was to tilt the engines and carry some cargo, but I just can't get enough out of it, electric or jet powered, 5 junos per prop gets it off the ground, just, and it won't take anymore, the bearing is too unstable. My bearings are not as smooth as your original one from your helicopter and I don't think they perform as well, I was trying to slim them down for the engine pods, even go down to a 1.25m fairing base.

FFinXHz.png

Any ideas on how to get it up to scratch?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-nkDP75eETaWkyNnlQWFgxZEU

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2 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

I drove one once when I was younger, possibly inebriated (it was a different world 30 years ago, bite me) and remember virtually nothing about it, so possibly not much use to you.

I am however in need of some assistance with your bearings :)

This had a lot more cruft to start with, I was making a V-22 replica, I have stripped it down to as far as I can before abandoning it, the plan was to tilt the engines and carry some cargo, but I just can't get enough out of it, electric or jet powered, 5 junos per prop gets it off the ground, just, and it won't take anymore, the bearing is too unstable. My bearings are not as smooth as your original one from your helicopter and I don't think they perform as well, I was trying to slim them down for the engine pods, even go down to a 1.25m fairing base.

FFinXHz.png

Any ideas on how to get it up to scratch?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-nkDP75eETaWkyNnlQWFgxZEU

 

Ah, yes the contra-rotating engine development hell.

Tricky stuff, I'm testing it right now using 10 juno's per engine. It has enough horsepower but even the slightest thrust imbalance makes it indeed uncontrollable and at the moment I can't get rid of that thrust imbalance, or something crashes into something (last time, heatshield into fairing base). I also see the heat shields wobbling around.

With engine pods you're talking about fairings around the engines? If you could do without those, the fairing bases are very weak.

But I think that my bearing just isn't developed enough for such an application, there's too much vibration resulting in power loss. It's either the antenna/solar panel, Sputnik probe core or the big wheeled MK3 cargo bay solution. The last one is the most heavy but almost indestructible.

Try the engines from this one, you can remove as much Juno's as you like to reduce part count and fuel consumption/intake air requirement. But I would build a working tilting VTOL first before reducing the amount of blowers. Also the rotors are gigantic, you'd need to remove 2 blade segments per rotor but you'd also need an engine speed readout because engine speed would go up dramatically. If you don't have one already, I use V.O.I.D.

https://kerbalx.com/Azimech/77I-Azi24-Cronus

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Azimech said:

 

Ah, yes the contra-rotating engine development hell.

Tricky stuff, I'm testing it right now using 10 juno's per engine. It has enough horsepower but even the slightest thrust imbalance makes it indeed uncontrollable and at the moment I can't get rid of that thrust imbalance, or something crashes into something (last time, heatshield into fairing base). I also see the heat shields wobbling around.

With engine pods you're talking about fairings around the engines? If you could do without those, the fairing bases are very weak.

But I think that my bearing just isn't developed enough for such an application, there's too much vibration resulting in power loss. It's either the antenna/solar panel, Sputnik probe core or the big wheeled MK3 cargo bay solution. The last one is the most heavy but almost indestructible.

Try the engines from this one, you can remove as much Juno's as you like to reduce part count and fuel consumption/intake air requirement. But I would build a working tilting VTOL first before reducing the amount of blowers. Also the rotors are gigantic, you'd need to remove 2 blade segments per rotor but you'd also need an engine speed readout because engine speed would go up dramatically. If you don't have one already, I use V.O.I.D.

https://kerbalx.com/Azimech/77I-Azi24-Cronus

 

 

Thanks for taking a look, I might go to one of the alternatives as I think that big engine would never look right for a V-22 replica. When I was testing your engine and my recreation, yours could do a lot more with two Junos than mine could. Any other strong round 1.25m parts I could use as the base? I found the fairings caused destruction almost straight away and ditched that idea earlier but I thought the base would be strong enough.

I will probably use radiators around the engine if I can slim it down some more with gaps for stuff to stick through.

Edited by selfish_meme
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Just now, selfish_meme said:

Thanks for taking a look, I might go to one of the alternatives as I think that big engine would never look right for a V-22 replica. When I was testing your engine and my recreation, yours could do a lot more with two Junos than mine could. Any other strong round 1.25m parts I could use as the base? I found the fairings caused destruction almost straight away and ditched that idea earlier but I thought the base would be strong enough.

I've searched a lot and the only thing I could come up with is the 1x1 square steel panel, a number of them stacked together and rotated until it -somewhat- gives the impression of being round. Plus: strong connection and impact rating. Con: the mass.

If mass isn't a problem and neither size, the MK1 crew cabin has excellent specs. I often use it for turbine shafts.

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45 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

I drove one once when I was younger, possibly inebriated (it was a different world 30 years ago, bite me) and remember virtually nothing about it, so possibly not much use to you.

I am however in need of some assistance with your bearings :)

<snip>

Any ideas on how to get it up to scratch?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-nkDP75eETaWkyNnlQWFgxZEU

I'll take a look at it too I think.

I think one of the biggest problems that you'll run into is that vertical flight requires significantly different blade pitch and torque from horizontal flight, so you'll have trouble making it work well in both flight regimes, and making the transition smoothly. 

But who knows, maybe you'll be the person who gets it to work! :D

Anyways, by adding some kerbals and enlarging the wing root tanks (and thus slightly adjusting the COM), I was able to reenter and land. Unfortunately my computer crashed during reentry, and when I reloaded, Kerbin had rotated so it wasn't going to be at the KSC

2017-06-22%2020-23-43.png

Would have been perfect had I not clumsily allowed the nose bounce too far up after the first touchdown. Might adjust the main gear to reduce the chances of this happening again.

2017-06-22%2020-24-49.png

I'll test it with adjusted landing gear after work, and then it should be good to go. Oh, and I need to add a probe core rotated to be inline with the engines. I keep forgetting to do that!

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