Devnote Tuesdays: The "Almost Forgot to Title This Post" Edition

[AletzN1]

GUI! GUI! GUI! finally! a fresh GUI!! It will be so satisfying when 0.24 comes out. hmmm.... .24 *drools like a waterfall*

[Paul Kingtiger]

I'm very excited about the NASA mission pack. Hopefully this opens the door to collaborations with other agencies.

[KN_Namida]

You're not consoling in the slightest. I wrote a long post that summed up pretty much everything I could say right now back shortly before .22 came out. In summary, it stated that the current development direction is pushing to reduce barriers to entry for new players, while not focusing on the features the veteran community wants (resources backburnered, more planets backburnered, the list of proof goes on).

The long and short of it is: while it may not be noticable now, that doesn't play well with veteran player retention.

By my best guess I'd say you have the outstanding modding community, who delivers those most-requested features, to thank for that.

/cynicism

And I'm sorry but I can't just shut up when reading something like this. Let's start off by saying that I'm not disagreeing with the main points of your... let's call it a rant. I'm a sort-of veteran player too, not as much as I'd like too (I started playing while 0.20 was out), and I still look forward to some features to be included in the final game, mainly some new planetary bodies the community has been asking for. But we have to understand that we are not the only people who ply KSP, and for a beginner having a tutorial system refurbished and a more complete career mode can be huge advantages when still learning the basics of KSP.

Besides, I'm really excited about this mission pack: this has already been done several times, in similar or totally different ways, by mods, but for Squad to work on something like this for the (I guess) first time... It will surely lay the groundwork for possible future releases. Like that asteroid belt we all want to see in Dres's orbit, and until now there was no actual proof asteroids were ever gonna make it into the game, but here you go, an asteroid mission pack in collaboration with NASA! And this will add some new interesting part(s) for sure!

Just imagine, in some months you may have your asteroid belt and some of the asteroids could be not-on-rail, so you could de-orbit them for scientific purposes or something of that sort. I'm just speculating here, we don't know if there's ever gonna be an asteroid belt but 0.24 is guaranteed to get us closer to it.

[Virtualgenius]

Can we Please have more Memory optimisation or god forbid a 64bit Windows client, threaten Unity with violence if you have to but the 3gb limit is becoming impossible to manage I am a KSP mod junkie

[KN_Namida]

@Rowsdower

I can see that this thread is full of mixed opinions about some of the features of the upcoming update. And I guess you had anticipated this kind of reactions. To announce something of this magnitude is always a risky thing to do.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm more than excited about this, and I'm anxious about seeing it implemented

But of course, the KSP community is comprised of beginners and veterans, and not all of them have experienced the same reaction to the announcement. Specifically veterans, I part of them is probably looking at the upcoming mission pack with interest, in a "Let's see how it comes along" fashion, while some others may have seen yet again their hopes for something they had really been waiting for a long time shattered. But hey, it's just a matter of time before they accept the facts and who knows, they might grow interest in this thing, and I know that Squad can pull this off well enough to let those sceptic people astonished

So don't pay the comments in this thread more attention then they deserve, and to Squad members: don't get down if some of us don't share your enjoyment for the direction the game is taking, you really, I wholeheartedly say it, really are doing an amazing job, I am glad KSP exists and I'm glad you made it real.

Thank you all.

[sjwt]

Eduardo (Lalo): I played Kerbal, I’m becoming insane!!!

One of us, one of us!!

[giltirn]

I must say I'm pretty excited about asteroids, providing it is a full feature and not some once-off scripted mission.

[Captain Sierra]

I must say I'm pretty excited about asteroids, providing it is a full feature and not some once-off scripted mission.

This is pretty much the biggest issue I have with it, because I have a gut feeling that the way in which they do it will make zero progress towards implementing a dynamic asteroid system in the stock game, beyond just a single scenario.

I had a whole long write up on how an off-rails dynamic asteroid belt could work saved somewhere as a word document. I'll have to dig it up and post it in Suggestions.

[SkyRender]

Personally I see this as a good testing groundwork for when procedural asteroids are added into the game. Work out the problems with the system before generating a mess of relatively small space rocks, so that when the asteroid belt is properly introduced, it won't have a myriad of collision problems. Also, main-game asteroid exploration and capture missions could well result from this in the long run.

[SkyHook]

This is pretty much the biggest issue I have with it, because I have a gut feeling that the way in which they do it will make zero progress towards implementing a dynamic asteroid system in the stock game, beyond just a single scenario.

I had a whole long write up on how an off-rails dynamic asteroid belt could work saved somewhere as a word document. I'll have to dig it up and post it in Suggestions.

I can't say that I disagree with anything that you have said in this forum. If it weren't for mods, I (an endgame player) would be gone 3 updates ago. There are a couple of things to keep in mind:

1. It's a business. They don't make money off of endgame players, so economically, it doesn't matter what we want. That statement obviously ignores merchandise sales and word of mouth advertisement, but that's another question.

2. Asteroids will be awesome! Even if it's a scenario, it will be a stiff challenge and serve to test the waters as far as that type of content is concerned.

I hear you man. I feel VERY ignored. I just have to swallow the pill that maybe people like me aren't the only people in the community, and that our voice is quite..irrelevant in some aspects.

[maxpower]

Personally I see this as a good testing groundwork for when procedural asteroids are added into the game. Work out the problems with the system before generating a mess of relatively small space rocks, so that when the asteroid belt is properly introduced, it won't have a myriad of collision problems. Also, main-game asteroid exploration and capture missions could well result from this in the long run.

I'm not really sure why so many people automatically assume this mission pack is going to make serious progress towards the core game. Sure, I guess anything is possible.... but its also possible (and more likely IMO) that its going to be a very heavily scripted stand alone scenario that makes absolutely no progress on the core game itself. I mean, the scenario as described doesn't require anything like procedural asteroids or random asteroid generation... so I'm not really sure why you think it could lay the ground work for such. If the mission is to go out and capture one specific asteroid, and that's how its described in the limited info we have, it could easily be set up with a special case game object that functions ONLY for the mission and has no technological overlap with the core game at all.

That's not to say I'm freaking out that SQUAD is working on a mission pack with NASA before finishing the core game I actually bought (I didn't buy KSP for NASA mission packs). While I think it would be prudent to finish the game first before getting into these side track ventures, I can't fault them for jumping at the chance to work with NASA. Though I must say I agree with Captain Sierra on a lot of things..... and think SQUAD would be wise to acknowledge that the veteran community actually exists from time to time. Note: Saying things like "We value our community!" isn't an acknowledgement.... actually taking action, like adding desired content, IS acknowledgement.

[WhiteWeasel]

​All customers who get the game licenses from us before the education mod is released will receive the mod for free!

Can someone clarify this? Does licence mean just owing a copy of the game, or something else?

[KerbMav]

Can someone clarify this? Does licence mean just owing a copy of the game, or something else?

I think it means, that if schools buy KSP now, they will get the EDU Mod for free - as it is not released yet and someone might want to start using it a bit earlier.

But ... everyone who owns the game will get the EDU Mod for free - not just schools/teachers, right?

[chainchomp]

The NASA Mission Pack is very interesting, because as danRosas mentioned, Asteroid. It's a powerful word, a radical concept, and having recently seen Gravity in 3D at one of the biggest screens in the world, I'm pumped for some gritty, realistic, ideas from the Guys and Gals at NASA. Asteroid landing? Well alright now. Hopefully it's not tumbling too fast!!

The contest sounds amazing... I can't really suggest anything good, but as a resource for ideas I would suggest looking at the kinds of perks offered by different videogames for kickstarter backers; they range from partying with the devs, to envelopes full of autographed soil (Shovel Knight), to special collecters content. Working out something relatively cheap but full of value would be best, because, in this thread I don't really need to mention how much we're super-ok with your budget money going straight into development.

Glad to hear the tutorials are getting an overhaul, hope all the engines are reattached , my immediate thoughts would be that crowd sourcing some content (with some quality control) would be an interesting and cost effective way to approach some of these things. It wouldn't be too difficult to add a flight recorder into the game, and a web portal to upload flights for scrutiny, but may be slightly more of a challenge to compile recorded flights into general goals.

Good news about Edu! Keep up the good work guys, this game is already better than any of those silly AAA titles, and although that's not hard, you've definitely got something special, the kind that doesn't come to everyone.

Much love.

Edited January 30, 2014 by chainchomp
browser flipped out, ate my message, and I remembered something else I mentioned

[kBob]

As a beginner just my 2 cents: I'm glad to see the tutorials are being updated, I'd also hope in system help is coming so I can like press F1 or right click on the Navball or however and get info on it rather than have to go to these forums and the wiki to try and find things, my experience as a programmer is that implementing help like this should be pretty much planned from the start or it never gets done very well and is a hindrance to new players and even veterans. My other big wish would be to make the Navball easier to read maybe a black and white high contrast option like I saw in some posts...this maybe just because of my aging eyes but as long as the UI is being worked on I hope this is taken into consideration. The asteroid thing sounds very intriguing, since I just achieved my first orbit, I can wait probably come out before I'm ready...but given the emphasis on asteroids and possible asteroid mining (which may never be economically feasible except in a game but future surveys will help determine this) you see in the press so much of late this seems like a good addition.

The two things that could help in career mode are some indication of how to gain science...again the forums helped a lot but at least some in game clues would be helpful...and I find the tech tree a bit strange I've got all these solid fuel tanks but now I'm up to purchasing things on the 100+ science level and I still can't seem to find an engine to use them...I realize this early and work is in progress but this strikes me as a little strange, wouldn't the engines and tanks be developed at the same time?

[Linear]

As a beginner just my 2 cents: I'm glad to see the tutorials are being updated, I'd also hope in system help is coming so I can like press F1 or right click on the Navball or however and get info on it rather than have to go to these forums and the wiki to try and find things, my experience as a programmer is that implementing help like this should be pretty much planned from the start or it never gets done very well and is a hindrance to new players and even veterans. My other big wish would be to make the Navball easier to read maybe a black and white high contrast option like I saw in some posts...this maybe just because of my aging eyes but as long as the UI is being worked on I hope this is taken into consideration. The asteroid thing sounds very intriguing, since I just achieved my first orbit, I can wait probably come out before I'm ready...but given the emphasis on asteroids and possible asteroid mining (which may never be economically feasible except in a game but future surveys will help determine this) you see in the press so much of late this seems like a good addition.

The two things that could help in career mode are some indication of how to gain science...again the forums helped a lot but at least some in game clues would be helpful...and I find the tech tree a bit strange I've got all these solid fuel tanks but now I'm up to purchasing things on the 100+ science level and I still can't seem to find an engine to use them...I realize this early and work is in progress but this strikes me as a little strange, wouldn't the engines and tanks be developed at the same time?

It's more the actual fuel being used for the engine, which is why in real life you see them co-developed. In KSP, this isn't an issue. :-)

[cziken20]

As a beginner just my 2 cents: I'm glad to see the tutorials are being updated, I'd also hope in system help is coming so I can like press F1 or right click on the Navball or however and get info on it rather than have to go to these forums and the wiki to try and find things, my experience as a programmer is that implementing help like this should be pretty much planned from the start or it never gets done very well and is a hindrance to new players and even veterans. My other big wish would be to make the Navball easier to read maybe a black and white high contrast option like I saw in some posts...this maybe just because of my aging eyes but as long as the UI is being worked on I hope this is taken into consideration. The asteroid thing sounds very intriguing, since I just achieved my first orbit, I can wait probably come out before I'm ready...but given the emphasis on asteroids and possible asteroid mining (which may never be economically feasible except in a game but future surveys will help determine this) you see in the press so much of late this seems like a good addition.

The two things that could help in career mode are some indication of how to gain science...again the forums helped a lot but at least some in game clues would be helpful...and I find the tech tree a bit strange I've got all these solid fuel tanks but now I'm up to purchasing things on the 100+ science level and I still can't seem to find an engine to use them...I realize this early and work is in progress but this strikes me as a little strange, wouldn't the engines and tanks be developed at the same time?

Do you mean solid rocket boosters? They have their own engine, just place them, activate by staging and pressing "space", and LIFTOFF! And when you hover over the part in science tree, you see specifications, there is "thrust:, "ISP" (efficiency), and other fings like how much fuel it uses, in vehicle assembly building, you must hover over a part and press RMB. Youc an also edit parts a bit while building by pressing RMB on them.

Edited January 30, 2014 by cziken20

[wasmic]

You're not consoling in the slightest. I wrote a long post that summed up pretty much everything I could say right now back shortly before .22 came out. In summary, it stated that the current development direction is pushing to reduce barriers to entry for new players, while not focusing on the features the veteran community wants (resources backburnered, more planets backburnered, the list of proof goes on).

The long and short of it is: while it may not be noticable now, that doesn't play well with veteran player retention.

By my best guess I'd say you have the outstanding modding community, who delivers those most-requested features, to thank for that.

/cynicism

So when do you suggest that Squad should start focusing on the new players? It seems like you want them to keep adding stuff for the veterans and forget the new players completely, which is very egocentric. I'm thrilled about the NASA mission pack, as it'll probably pave the road for many other exciting stuffs - like, possibly, an asteroid field which has been on the to-do list for a long time.

[kBob]

Do you mean solid rocket boosters? They have their own engine, just place them, activate by staging and pressing "space", and LIFTOFF! And when you hover over the part in science tree, you see specifications, there is "thrust:, "ISP" (efficiency), and other fings like how much fuel it uses, in vehicle assembly building, you must hover over a part and press RMB. Youc an also edit parts a bit while building by pressing RMB on them.

Yes booster not tank . What I mean is these come early but the engine that uses them does not only the liquid engines.

[Seshins]

? Not sure what you mean there as the boosters are fuel and engine all in one. There is no seperate engine for the SRB

[Aragosnat]

Yes booster not tank . What I mean is these come early but the engine that uses them does not only the liquid engines.

Best way to think of the Solid Booster Rockets is a upside down metal trash can packed with fuel. And all you need is someone to lite said fuel on fire so it can then burn.

Oh yeah. I'm exited to hear about NASA and having a roid in game to play with. Kerbin is going to become a dead world I fear. =^.^=

[kBob]

I see, duh, should have just put one on to see what happens...it just seemed logical that since we have liquid tanks and engines same went for solid (my mind does tricks like that...but hey I only had to be told twice!), maybe I missed that in the tutorials. I won't say how long it took me to figure out to right click on a fuel tank to see how much was left . Thanks. Takes care of one thing rest still applies.

Edit: Wow these are fun just blew up three times in a row.

Edited January 30, 2014 by kBob

[cziken20]

And the best way to see what a part does is to put it on a rocket/plane/rover/boat/explosive, launch, right click to see if it does something, and if right click says nothing, check the staging and press "space! This is the best way to understand the game - creating *exploding* rockets.

[arq]

The NASA announcement has not stopped or diverted anything. 0.24 development is still ongoing and the community will find out what's cooking very soon.

I was worried that the content of 0.24 had been delayed to 0.25 in order to work out this mission pack. Thank you for clarifying, Rowsdower.

[Captain_Party]

Who is Lalo/Eduardo?