Why aliens would be hidden from the public

[Kerbin Dallas Multipass]

[lordlundar]

To put it simply...

People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

[Jordanpumah]

touche.

why can't everyone be rational?

[Canopus]

yeah, I don't see why religions need to be bashed here,

okay, so you're an athiest, good for you, I'm not, I respect your decision, up until the point where you shove that opinion in my face and try to tell me you're right and everyone else is wrong.

maybe God isn't exactly an "invisibly sky creature" that molded us in seven days, but maybe something put each and every variable into place to make sure that earth had been assured to have sentient creatures that would evolve.

and, trying to get back on topic

It's kinda obvious there are aliens, there are signs everywhere, but some cold, hard proof would be nice, as long as they are a peaceful race, hoping Sagan was right.

Sorry but i don't think he started shoving his opinion into your face, wasn't the guy who said Evolution isn't happening doing that first?

[Rakaydos]

In the book Agent to the Stars, aliens come, realize that they would be considered fundamentally revolting and destabilizing by the locals, and decide they need advice as to best revel themselves to the world. So they reveal themselves to a Holywood Agent. (someone who's job it is to get actors jobs)

In the webcomic CyantianChronicals, aliens show up, see the earth is occupied, and start terraforming mars and venus instead.

[lajoswinkler]

I don't understand why everyone is saying religion would crumble. Most would, but not all. If our civilization and the Alien one shared ancient texts (once deciphered), and they were found to have striking similarities, it actually might reinforce religion. Also, who ever said that the THEORY of evolution was a fact? Even Darwin himself said it was just a theory. The Theory of evolution basically says that a pile of silicon will turn into an iPod over time. And before you go and say that it doesn't work because iPods are artificial, think again: the same theory says that simple, inanimate primordial sludge will eventually turn into an animate, intelligent, efficient, and highly complex human. That seems to defy the same logic that supposedly supports it.

First of all, nobody said it would crumble completely. It would just take a huge blow to its foundations. It would survive with heavy damage.

What are the odds for striking similarities? They are a practical zero.

Second, you're embarrasing yourself with total ignorance about the theory of evolution. You don't even know what a theory is. It's not an idea, a presumption. It's a collection of explanations backed up by empirical evidence, that can be successfully used to predict other phenomena with a fairly large accuracy. Theory of evolution today is vastly different from Darwin's. For instance, the guy never knew anything about genes.

Saying "just a theory" means you don't know much about science.

Theory of evolution does not say anything remotely close to your silicon and iPod. Not only it does not describe the beggining of life, but even the abiogenesis hypothesis has nothing about such insane thing.

Honestly, dude, grab a book. This is embarrasing.

[ArmchairGravy]

I, for one, would not wish to get involved with a bunch of heavily armed killer apes. Not my idea of a good time.

[Themohawkninja]

We've all seen what irrational media hype can do to the public. If the government just said "oh, by the way, those were E.T.'s at Roswell", people might go nuts over the idea of an alien invasion. In-fact, contrary to what was said in the original post, the government would be evil if they did just release the information to the public. I'd be quite afraid to live in a world where people just all of a sudden knew that aliens existed in the wake of things like "War of the Worlds".

Then again, maybe knowledge of aliens that haven't killed us will calm everyone's nerves.

[PakledHostage]

First of all, nobody said it would crumble completely. It would just take a huge blow to its foundations. It would survive with heavy damage.

Some religious groups probably wouldn't even flinch. Some like Sikhism (I am told) make allowances for the existence of alien creatures on other worlds. Others are too blinded by their faith for anything to phase them. I have met a few people who honestly believe that the world was made in 7 days, 6000 years or so ago, and that all the evidence to the contrary was put here by the devil. Pointing out to them that, if their belief is true, then the devil made more of the world than their deity did is met with incredulity. If they can hold that firmly to their faith, then nothing much is going to shake the foundations of their religion.

[NASAFanboy]

We've all seen what irrational media hype can do to the public. If the government just said "oh, by the way, those were E.T.'s at Roswell", people might go nuts over the idea of an alien invasion. In-fact, contrary to what was said in the original post, the government would be evil if they did just release the information to the public. I'd be quite afraid to live in a world where people just all of a sudden knew that aliens existed in the wake of things like "War of the Worlds".

Then again, maybe knowledge of aliens that haven't killed us will calm everyone's nerves.

The War of the Worlds reading was overhyped.

There was some worry and concern, and there was some militias that quickly banded up to fight, but these quickly dispersed and scattered off, slightly ashamed at this. That Time photo of the farmer and his gun defending his ranch from the Martians? That farmer was posed and paid an handsome sum of cash.

When you consider how everyone today cares more about some random wedding of an celebrity and the latest hairstyle, the discovery of aliens would probably do nothing.

[jwenting]

In the book Agent to the Stars, aliens come, realize that they would be considered fundamentally revolting and destabilizing by the locals, and decide they need advice as to best revel themselves to the world. So they reveal themselves to a Holywood Agent. (someone who's job it is to get actors jobs)

In the webcomic CyantianChronicals, aliens show up, see the earth is occupied, and start terraforming mars and venus instead.

in the book Footfall, aliens come, see the world is occupied, and simply drop rocks on it until the humans surrender.

[jwenting]

The War of the Worlds reading was overhyped.

There was some worry and concern, and there was some militias that quickly banded up to fight, but these quickly dispersed and scattered off, slightly ashamed at this. That Time photo of the farmer and his gun defending his ranch from the Martians? That farmer was posed and paid an handsome sum of cash.

When you consider how everyone today cares more about some random wedding of an celebrity and the latest hairstyle, the discovery of aliens would probably do nothing.

sadly I think you're wrong. Some "celeb" would proclaim they're gods and a new religion would quickly evolve around them (think, days) that'd be extremely aggressive, leading to more bloodshed than the world has seen since WW2 or before.

[Themohawkninja]

sadly I think you're wrong. Some "celeb" would proclaim they're gods and a new religion would quickly evolve around them (think, days) that'd be extremely aggressive, leading to more bloodshed than the world has seen since WW2 or before.

$10 says it's the guy from Ancient Aliens.

"THIS... THIS IS ANUBIS... THIS IS WHO THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WORSHIPED AS THEIR UNDERWORLD GOD!"

[Dominatus]

$10 says it's the guy from Ancient Aliens.

"THIS... THIS IS ANUBIS... THIS IS WHO THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WORSHIPED AS THEIR UNDERWORLD GOD!"

Haha! That's probably about right. And now I'm feeling ashamed to be of the same species to those kinds of people...

And as for me "bashing religion", I wasn't. I was simply pointing out flaws in the other guys post. Besides, everything I had mentioned pertains to Darwinism and the theory of evolution. I wasn't trying to shove anything down anyone's throats.

To give you all a better idea of where I'm coming from on this, I had been on YouTube, and had gotten around to the alien conspiracy section. One video didn't seem like paranoid nonsense, and so stood out. It was talking about "Tall Whites", which are supposedly trading tech secrets with the US government, and living on an Air Force base in Arizona. After his videos, I checked out some other ones. One of them is a Canadian official coming out and announcing that the four species mentioned in a book called Millennium something-or-another actually exist. I'm not saying I'm buying into any of this. It just raised the question of why they would be hidden from us.

[magnemoe]

We've all seen what irrational media hype can do to the public. If the government just said "oh, by the way, those were E.T.'s at Roswell", people might go nuts over the idea of an alien invasion. In-fact, contrary to what was said in the original post, the government would be evil if they did just release the information to the public. I'd be quite afraid to live in a world where people just all of a sudden knew that aliens existed in the wake of things like "War of the Worlds".

Then again, maybe knowledge of aliens that haven't killed us will calm everyone's nerves.

People like cool stories, they like mystery. Roswell is both. Yes if Roswell was real the major effect would be that it would scare the Soviet a lot as the US got access to some real advanced technology.

Outside of this and the possible technology it would not affect peoples life much. Yes you would see an shift where aliens became mainstream in tv and movies and so on.

[jwenting]

$10 says it's the guy from Ancient Aliens.

"THIS... THIS IS ANUBIS... THIS IS WHO THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WORSHIPED AS THEIR UNDERWORLD GOD!"

hmm, he'll have less impact than say lady Gaga claiming the alien is a reincarnation of Michael Jackson...

[Canopus]

People like cool stories, they like mystery. Roswell is both. Yes if Roswell was real the major effect would be that it would scare the Soviet a lot as the US got access to some real advanced technology.

Outside of this and the possible technology it would not affect peoples life much. Yes you would see an shift where aliens became mainstream in tv and movies and so on.

If you would believe all those storys the Soviets wouldn't have to fear anything since they allegedly had their own "Area 51".

[jwenting]

If you would believe all those storys the Soviets wouldn't have to fear anything since they allegedly had their own "Area 51".

Given that Area 51 is just a grid sector on a map covering a dry lake bed and some surrounding mountains, I'm pretty sure the Soviets had something similar.

Such things aren't exactly rare after all

Even if you mean the Groom Lake test facility, they no doubt had something like that as well. More than one in fact.

And yes, they even had an alien base just as real as the one the US had

[Themohawkninja]

Even if you mean the Groom Lake test facility, they no doubt had something like that as well.

Wasn't it called the Silver Triangle, or something like that? I know it had something to do with a triangle...

[problemecium]

The real cover-up is Area 52. Nobody ever talks about that one.

[Holo]

The real cover-up is Area 52. Nobody ever talks about that one.

Pfft, everyone knows that Area 52 is really just to distract us from Area 43b.

[MBobrik]

I don't see any reason why someone would choose to reveal himself just to the ruling elites of some foreign planet and not either just come over and establish normal interstellar relationships, or remain hidden completely, observing only undetectably from distance.

.

And I also don't believe in the capability of any human government to keep a secret that big.

[Wahgineer]

Taken from wikitionary:

theory

(sciences) A coherent statement or set of ideas that explains observed facts or phenomena, or which sets out the laws and principles of something known or observed; a hypothesis confirmed by observation, experiment etc. [from 17th c.]  [quotations ▼]

(mathematics) A field of study attempting to exhaustively describe a particular class of constructs. [from 18th c.]

A hypothesis or conjecture.

While yes, I acknowledge that cakes cannot procreate, and yes, there is the whole natural selection thing cough* twisted view of adaptation cough*, evolution does state that something came from nothing. How? So yeah, you say some amoeba evolved into a fish, the fish into a salamander, the salamander into a lizard, the lizard into a rat-thing, the rat thing into a monkey, and the monkey into a human. That's all fine and dandy. So explain to me how the amoeba got here. Also, if evolution is the process of life evolving to be better, then why do monkey's still exist? A house doesn't pop up out of the ground, it's built. A house doesn't turn into a highrise, it stays as the house it was built as. Something as complex as a computer doesn't slip and slide out of primordial soup: it is built and manufactured and programmed by humans. To say a human can come from an amoeba that randomly came from a coalesced puddle of soup doesn't just sound ridiculous, it is ridiculous. As far as I can tell , evolution can't hold up to a logical analysis. Oh, and about natural selection? A house with no foundation can't stand (the foundation being evolution, the house being natural selection).

And to stay on topic: if you eliminate the lie that is evolution, the chances of there being alien life dwindle to near zero.

P.s.:ever notice how on dinosaur documentaries, they'll usually say designed and evolved in the same sentence, if not with in 2 to 3 sentences of each other? sounds rather contradictory to me.

[John Crichton]

Any species intelligent enough to make it to earth wouldn't be interested in any technology we have to offer. Well, maybe NYC pizza and Swiss fondue...but that's about it.

I also don't think any government is actually clever enough to keep something like that hidden for so long.

[peadar1987]

Taken from wikitionary:

theory

(sciences) A coherent statement or set of ideas that explains observed facts or phenomena, or which sets out the laws and principles of something known or observed; a hypothesis confirmed by observation, experiment etc. [from 17th c.]  [quotations ▼]

(mathematics) A field of study attempting to exhaustively describe a particular class of constructs. [from 18th c.]

A hypothesis or conjecture.

Evolution is confirmed by observation. We can look at our genomes and see where different speciations happened, we can even observe it happening in populations that reproduce quickly enough. There are species of microorganism now that have evolved to break down nylon. Nylon didn't even exist 100 years ago. We need a new flu vaccination every year because the virus keeps on evolving. Penicillin in its original form is now next to useless because bacteria have evolved.

While yes, I acknowledge that cakes cannot procreate, and yes, there is the whole natural selection thing cough* twisted view of adaptation cough*, evolution does state that something came from nothing.

Actually, it doesn't. Evolution and natural selection explain how we got from single-celled organisms to what we are today, and nothing more.

Where the first single-celled organisms came from is a completely different field called "abiogenesis".

How? So yeah, you say some amoeba evolved into a fish, the fish into a salamander, the salamander into a lizard, the lizard into a rat-thing, the rat thing into a monkey, and the monkey into a human. That's all fine and dandy. So explain to me how the amoeba got here.

We don't know for sure, but we have some theories. First of all, amoebas are far from the simplest form of life, all you need for that is a self-replicator. The Miller-Urey experiment showed that under certain conditions, thought to be present on early earth, basic inorganic chemicals can combine to form more and more complex organic compounds, that could eventually lead to life. In any case, just because we don't know how life originated doesn't automatically imply the existence of any gods. The Vikings didn't know where thunder came from, but it didn't mean they were right to believe in Thor.

Also, if evolution is the process of life evolving to be better, then why do monkey's still exist?

This is a common misconception. Life doesn't evolve to be "better" as most people understand it. Life evolves to be better adapted. Think of it this way. (this is a hypothetical story and is not actually what happened) Once upon a time there was a bunch of monkeys in the forest. They were all more or less the same. Then half the monkeys moved out to the seashore. The monkeys that stayed in the forest eventually developed good climbing skills, a strong grip, and a prehensile tail. The monkeys that moved to the seashore developed webbed hands and feet for better swimming, and better tolerance for drinking salty water (this is because the monkeys who couldn't climb that well fell and died before having children, and the monkeys who couldn't swim drowned, leaving only strong swimmers). Now the two monkey populations are very different, but which one is "better"? Each one is better suited to its own environment, but if you moved a seashore monkey to the forest, it would be far more likely to fall out of a tree and die than a forest monkey, whereas a forest monkey would be more likely to drown than a seashore monkey.

Sharks have been around, unchanged, for hundreds of millions of years. Put a human in a shark tank with a small cut and we'll see if evolution necessarily makes everything better over time!

A house doesn't pop up out of the ground, it's built. A house doesn't turn into a highrise, it stays as the house it was built as. Something as complex as a computer doesn't slip and slide out of primordial soup: it is built and manufactured and programmed by humans.

An animal doesn't just pop out of the ground. It is given birth to by another, similar animal. And once it's born, it stays the same animal until it dies. Nobody is disputing this. However, the animal's offspring will be slightly different to it, and if you add up the differences over time, they will result in very large changes. Houses and computers don't reproduce, and therefore your analogy doesn't work.

To say a human can come from an amoeba that randomly came from a coalesced puddle of soup doesn't just sound ridiculous, it is ridiculous. As far as I can tell , evolution can't hold up to a logical analysis. Oh, and about natural selection? A house with no foundation can't stand (the foundation being evolution, the house being natural selection).

This is a logical fallacy called the argument from incredulity. Just because you think it is ridiculous doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. Especially when you have demonstrated from your previous posts that you don't actually fully understand what evolution entails.

And to stay on topic: if you eliminate the lie that is evolution, the chances of there being alien life dwindle to near zero.

Interestingly enough, a man called Giordano Bruno was among the first to seriously propose that the stars were suns like our own, which could have planets rotating around them, planets that could support life. He was burned as a heretic by the church.

He also said this: "Thus is the excellence of God magnified and the greatness of his kingdom made manifest; He is glorified not in one, but in countless suns; not in a single earth, a single world, but in a thousand thousand, I say in an infinity of worlds."

P.s.:ever notice how on dinosaur documentaries, they'll usually say designed and evolved in the same sentence, if not with in 2 to 3 sentences of each other? sounds rather contradictory to me.

I sometimes say "designed". It doesn't mean I'm not an atheist, it can just be more convenient to use this construction, due to the way the English language works. It's far easier to construct active sentences than passive ones, and there are more ways of doing so, meaning your commentary is less repetitive.