helldiver

[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

Recommended Posts

The texture gets loaded twice. Every time you declare a texture, an instance of it gets loaded into memory. The game does not attempt to re-use loaded assets.

At least, that is my understanding.

That sounds more like a Unity issue then, instead of a Squad issue.... but instancing something shouldn't take as much as having two of the same texture. There's always going to be overhead, no way around that, but instancing is actually what you would want to happen. It's not a bad thing.

(And it's still not making a lot of sense, internals and externals texture usage are the same thing instantiated the same way way for a given configuration. If the overhead for internals were as bad as you say it is then it would be just as bad for externals and therefore much more of a problem as external models are used much more than internals)

Edited by Starwaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That sounds more like a Unity issue then, instead of a Squad issue.... but instancing something shouldn't take as much as having two of the same texture. There's always going to be overhead, no way around that, but instancing is actually what you would want to happen. It's not a bad thing.

Unity provides the framework to do it, Squad does not appear to be using it (or I could be wrong, and just missing it). But yea, it is totally bizaare - instancing is definitely needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who said save games are always suspect after every major update? Thats bonkers. Thats bad for players. Period.

The expectation in regards to save games should not be that major updates will probably require a new save, but that the developer will NEVER break a save in a major update. Breaking saves is bad programming. Unless you really really really need to, because youre fixing something thats so mindbogglingly broken that theres no way around it.

It is alpha software, bro! Things change in alpha. You should assume EVERY update breaks EVERYTHING in regard to saves, or previous mods, and it is a happy accident when it doesn't. That said, this update does not *appear* to have broken saves, but the dust hasn't settled enough to be 100% sure of that.

Thes are mods that have worked together in the past, most of which Ive been using since I started my .23.5 save... so I expect, that if mod authors say it works on .24, that it works, and works with other mods, particularly those it has worked with before.

Mod authors are not gods. We introduce bugs on a regular basis. Things change, especially on patch day.

But on top of this... the save isnt the issue... because the save isnt loaded until I click on it to load it in the menu. Which is the place I cant get to. I could remove my save from the game completely, and I'd still be stuck in the same position I am.

If you can't get to the menu on an unmodded, clean* install, you either a) installed it wrong\have a corrupted install\didn't actually do a clean install B) have a problem with your computer, full stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is alpha software, bro! Things change in alpha. You should assume EVERY update breaks EVERYTHING in regard to saves, or previous mods, and it is a happy accident when it doesn't. That said, this update does not *appear* to have broken saves, but the dust hasn't settled enough to be 100% sure of that.

An excuse. 'Its an alpha' or 'Its a beta' is the lazy way out for developers. It lets them get away with things (like not having a proper asset manager, we should not be loading every asset into memory upon launch). I have higher expectations for developers (especially ones that charge money for their Alphas); You dont break saves. Unless, its as a last resort to fix something thats so hugely broken that it will affect the game later on down the road.

Mod authors are not gods. We introduce bugs on a regular basis. Things change, especially on patch day.

Nope, youre right they arent. They are pretty awesome though. But I expect that if they say their mods works on .24 that theyve actually tested that it does.

If you can't get to the menu on an unmodded, clean* install, you either a) installed it wrong\have a corrupted install\didn't actually do a clean install B) have a problem with your computer, full stop.

Oh here we go. If a clean install doesnt work, I must have clicked the download button in Steam wrong, eh? Twice, no less?

An unmodded clean install of KSPx64 is useless to you me and everyone else. It doesnt matter if it works. Because if I want to play vanilla, I'll run x86 and go on my way. But vanilla KSP is about as boring as watching paint dry. If a modded install of KSPx64 doesnt work then KSPx64 isnt working. Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An excuse. 'Its an alpha' or 'Its a beta' is the lazy way out for developers. It lets them get away with things (like not having a proper asset manager, we should not be loading every asset into memory upon launch). I have higher expectations for developers (especially ones that charge money for their Alphas); You dont break saves. Unless, its as a last resort to fix something thats so hugely broken that it will affect the game later on down the road.

""It's in Alpha" isn't an excuse, it's an objective assessment. It's not my fault that it continues to be relevant."

Nope, youre right they arent. They are pretty awesome though. But I expect that if they say their mods works on .24 that theyve actually tested that it does.

Just because one or a handful of people have tested a mod on a particular version (the modder and (if they exist) their chosen testers), does not mean that it is absolutely bug free. One of the consequences of playing with free mods is that those mods don't have a QA team backing them. YOU are part of the QA team!

For example, the mod I recently released - I cannot find any bugs in it. I am SURE they are some. I'm just waiting for one of my users to break it, and tell me about it at this point.

Oh here we go. If a clean install doesnt work, I must have clicked the download button in Steam wrong, eh? Twice, no less?
Yep. Alternatively, you have issues with your machine outside the scope of KSP. KSP_x64 works fine (for certain values of 'fine') 'out of the box'.

You know that when you 'delete local content' through steam, it does not delete any mods you installed, yes?

An unmodded clean install of KSPx64 is useless to you me and everyone else. It doesnt matter if it works. Because if I want to play vanilla, I'll run x86 and go on my way. But vanilla KSP is about as boring as watching paint dry. If a modded install of KSPx64 doesnt work then KSPx64 isnt working. Period.

This, we mostly agree on! KSP is a platform for mods more than a game to me, indeed.

That being said, using hyperbolic quasiprofanity to describe what was effectively a measure to prevent people from having to muck around with the 64bit 'hack', and introduce the 64-bit client to the dev pipeline (which includes getting user reports and modder hands on it), is totally unnecessary, counterproductive, and makes you look like a fool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I keep forgetting to delete it. But it should be harmless.

Thank you for the suggestion. However, this isn't the issue we're having. Rather, it's being able to share resources between items such as IVAs and such. We're not having an issue right now really. It was my response in reference to why KSOS uses a lot of resources (i.e. RAM) :D

Oh trust me, I'm cool. Hope Enneract is cool also and didn't take any of this to heart.

Now with my awesome co-pilot, everything is just lovely :D

http://i.imgur.com/RgmfaOh.jpg

Thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87594-Kim-Kerman?p=1293971#post1293971

is that a camera or anti missile laser like that of Baha's armory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh here we go. If a clean install doesnt work, I must have clicked the download button in Steam wrong, eh? Twice, no less?

An unmodded clean install of KSPx64 is useless to you me and everyone else. It doesnt matter if it works. Because if I want to play vanilla, I'll run x86 and go on my way. But vanilla KSP is about as boring as watching paint dry. If a modded install of KSPx64 doesnt work then KSPx64 isnt working. Period.

Did you ever try the suggestion someone made a few pages back about moving it to a different folder?

Simply put, do not run the game from Program Files or Program Files (x86) because the game can run into security issues.

Make a folder just for it to go in. Call it Games, or whatever you want. Then move KSP in there. Applies to both 32 bit and 64 bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An excuse. 'Its an alpha' or 'Its a beta' is the lazy way out for developers. It lets them get away with things (like not having a proper asset manager, we should not be loading every asset into memory upon launch). I have higher expectations for developers (especially ones that charge money for their Alphas); You dont break saves. Unless, its as a last resort to fix something thats so hugely broken that it will affect the game later on down the road.

Nope, youre right they arent. They are pretty awesome though. But I expect that if they say their mods works on .24 that theyve actually tested that it does.

Oh here we go. If a clean install doesnt work, I must have clicked the download button in Steam wrong, eh? Twice, no less?

An unmodded clean install of KSPx64 is useless to you me and everyone else. It doesnt matter if it works. Because if I want to play vanilla, I'll run x86 and go on my way. But vanilla KSP is about as boring as watching paint dry. If a modded install of KSPx64 doesnt work then KSPx64 isnt working. Period.

Well with all the stuff you spread here and the tone you do it; let me ask you what great development, mod or code or anything productive can you show us, just as a basis for the expectations you are having.

You want to revolt, fine than do this at the unity forums they deserve it! Unity is known for bad Memory Management for a Long time, strange that you don't know that with all your expectations.

If you want this debate than do it please in a seperate threat.

Back on Topic:

just switched to 32bit for a clean errorfree launch of a bunch of KSO parts; with a totally massive overbuild KW rocket, and worked fine. I couldn't see any problems so far in that short time.

I like the internals but the shuttle is not really my taste, but the parts will find a good use :)

Oh and it was a 3.10 launch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nervermind, wrong post

Edited by nismobg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
is that a camera or anti missile laser like that of Baha's armory

It's an RPM powered Camera. Should be linked to the internal monitor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if already asked, since 441 pages are an aweful lot to go through: but would a crew only variant of this shuttle be in the cards?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apologies if already asked, since 441 pages are an aweful lot to go through: but would a crew only variant of this shuttle be in the cards?

Just stick a habitat module into the cargobay, As far as i know a cargo and a crew only version is not planed. But i have been wrong before so don't count me as 100% right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Did you ever try the suggestion someone made a few pages back about moving it to a different folder?

Simply put, do not run the game from Program Files or Program Files (x86) because the game can run into security issues.

Make a folder just for it to go in. Call it Games, or whatever you want. Then move KSP in there. Applies to both 32 bit and 64 bit.

Already is in a different folder, Steam downloads it, then I move it. But even then, I take ownership of my Program Files folders so I dont have to bother with that nonsense of security issues.

Well with all the stuff you spread here and the tone you do it; let me ask you what great development, mod or code or anything productive can you show us, just as a basis for the expectations you are having.

You want to revolt, fine than do this at the unity forums they deserve it! Unity is known for bad Memory Management for a Long time, strange that you don't know that with all your expectations.

If you want this debate than do it please in a seperate threat.

I want you to look at any other game development company. Go look at Mojang. Even before the official release of Minecraft, after many of its features were implemented, it wasnt nearly as buggy as KSPx64 is. Go look at any game company who release Alphas or Betas. They are hardly ever as buggy as this games 64-bit build is.

Saying 'Its an Alpha' is an excuse for lazy developers to continue being lazy. Because we should have had contracts and budgets when career mode was introduced in .22, not 2 releases later.

You may notice, Ive bolded a portion of your quote above. I did know that Unity was known for bad memory management. Its why I think Unity is a pile of crud, as a whole. But there are plenty of games out there, in the Unity engine, that dont load every asset into memory, because they have a proper asset management systems. But even above that... do you know how the bolded portion of your quote changes? Game developers go to the Engine developers and work with them to make it better.

~~~

In other news, removing KW Rocketry, has solved many of the crashes upon loading. I dont know what it is about KW, but I was actually able to record and complete a full mission to my station today. It was nothing short of amazing that x64 was actually working. I can say that the KSOS will work in 64-bit just as well as it does in 32-bit, if you can manage to get the game to launch.

So the video of that mission will be up soon-ish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Already is in a different folder, Steam downloads it, then I move it. But even then, I take ownership of my Program Files folders so I dont have to bother with that nonsense of security issues.

I want you to look at any other game development company. Go look at Mojang. Even before the official release of Minecraft, after many of its features were implemented, it wasnt nearly as buggy as KSPx64 is. Go look at any game company who release Alphas or Betas. They are hardly ever as buggy as this games 64-bit build is.

Saying 'Its an Alpha' is an excuse for lazy developers to continue being lazy. Because we should have had contracts and budgets when career mode was introduced in .22, not 2 releases later.

You may notice, Ive bolded a portion of your quote above. I did know that Unity was known for bad memory management. Its why I think Unity is a pile of crud, as a whole. But there are plenty of games out there, in the Unity engine, that dont load every asset into memory, because they have a proper asset management systems. But even above that... do you know how the bolded portion of your quote changes? Game developers go to the Engine developers and work with them to make it better.

~~~

In other news, removing KW Rocketry, has solved many of the crashes upon loading. I dont know what it is about KW, but I was actually able to record and complete a full mission to my station today. It was nothing short of amazing that x64 was actually working. I can say that the KSOS will work in 64-bit just as well as it does in 32-bit, if you can manage to get the game to launch.

So the video of that mission will be up soon-ish.

But Minecraft and KSP are developed under completely different engines. ._. You need to make a fair comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But Minecraft and KSP are developed under completely different engines. ._. You need to make a fair comparison.

Also, MC is a dramatically more simple game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just ran a 64-bit super 25 KSO mission and did not crash, here is the log file from menu change to after landing. Please note I do have other mods installed and was working just fine except some texture glitches that appeared to be like doubled part. But that may be becasue of my PC is dying, i think and pray it is not going to die on me.

Paste bin location, Expires in 30 days from 7/22/2014

If full log info is needed please ask and Will pm if needed so you can see full mod info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just ran a 64-bit super 25 KSO mission and did not crash, here is the log file from menu change to after landing. Please note I do have other mods installed and was working just fine except some texture glitches that appeared to be like doubled part. But that may be becasue of my PC is dying, i think and pray it is not going to die on me.

Paste bin location, Expires in 30 days from 7/22/2014

If full log info is needed please ask and Will pm if needed so you can see full mod info.

pictures of the texture glitch please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ladies and gentlemen, please try to keep in mind that fellow forum members are not your enemies, and watch your tempers. Also, the subject of this thread is the Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System, so please leave discussions of Minecraft and the 64-bit version of KSP for other threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But Minecraft and KSP are developed under completely different engines. ._. You need to make a fair comparison.

A fair comparison? Both are indie games. Both were released to the public to buy in unfinished Alpha states. One wasnt a buggy mess. One is. Its perfectly fair. The pointing I was making was that Mojang didnt just go 'It's in Alpha' or 'It's in Beta' and take their sweet time adding features and fixing whatever problems their game did have. They fixed it. And they are constantly improving the game, even now, after release. Players didn't just go 'It's in Alpha' or 'It's in Beta' and accept it, the pushed for it to be better than it was.

Or do you mean I need to find a game... that was released in an unfinished state, and was also done with Unity? I dont think there are other games like that. Java is a pretty bad game engine. But even it is leaps and bounds better than Unity.

Honestly the amount of people who are content to say 'It's an Alpha, so its ok that its like this' is ASTOUNDING, because it isn't ok! Players should always expect more of developers, especially if its a product youve paid for.

~~~

Finished editing my video for STS-8. Uploading it now. The full mission was captured in KSPx64, contiguously with no crashes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A fair comparison? Both are indie games. Both were released to the public to buy in unfinished Alpha states. One wasnt a buggy mess. One is. Its perfectly fair. The pointing I was making was that Mojang didnt just go 'It's in Alpha' or 'It's in Beta' and take their sweet time adding features and fixing whatever problems their game did have. They fixed it. And they are constantly improving the game, even now, after release. Players didn't just go 'It's in Alpha' or 'It's in Beta' and accept it, the pushed for it to be better than it was.

Or do you mean I need to find a game... that was released in an unfinished state, and was also done with Unity? I dont think there are other games like that. Java is a pretty bad game engine. But even it is leaps and bounds better than Unity.

Honestly the amount of people who are content to say 'It's an Alpha, so its ok that its like this' is ASTOUNDING, because it isn't ok! Players should always expect more of developers, especially if its a product youve paid for.

~~~

Finished editing my video for STS-8. Uploading it now. The full mission was captured in KSPx64, contiguously with no crashes.

Still not a fair comparison as Minecraft doesn't allow people to calculate orbital physics and allow you to build rockets as well as the fact they run on completely different game engines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd also like to say that using this on 64bit is just fine. If anything, its actually working better now than it was back in 23.5, even with FAR installed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Still not a fair comparison as Minecraft doesn't allow people to calculate orbital physics and allow you to build rockets as well as the fact they run on completely different game engines.

Nope. It just procedurally generates an infinite world with dungeons, mines, strongholds and vast biomes, among other things. Its perfectly fair. They are both games. Both released to customers in Alpha status. Both by indie devs. Both on horrible game engines.

Saying theyre on different game engines doesnt make it a fair comparison, means we could never compare Halo to CoD, or CoD to Battlefield, because theyre built on different engines. Or Battlefield to Need for Speed Rivals, since they arent the same type of game, but are built on the same engine. Minecraft and KSP are just as similar as they are different.

~~~

Anyway, here it is STS-8:

STS-8 is the first appearence of the 'Hughes', the 3rd production EWBCL in my fleet. Paylod for this mission was supposed to be the payload for STS 9, but I switched them around, and though I had already sent up my stations second solar truss.

You may notice that Ive reused some music. Why? Because CarboHydroM makes great music, and I can use it in videos, so long as I credit him. Plus I was using this video as my attempt to learn Adobe Premier, so I used what I had lying around without having to hunt through my HDD. The mission was completed fully in KSPx64 (though not without its difficulties).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is your second warning, guys. Minecraft and the course of KSP development are off-topic in a mod release thread. Confine the discussion to the Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.