helldiver

[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

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OK remember I told you wings were messed up , I was RIGHT ! Got a fix for you. What happens is wings cause infiniglade with the current configuration .

And to be more precise the super25surfaceLkso and super25surfaceRkso

So what i did is change the ModuleControlSurface to :

MODULE

{

name = ModuleControlSurface

dragCoeff = 0.5

deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.7

ctrlSurfaceRange = 20

ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.95

}

and removed from

mass = 0.08

dragModelType = override

maximum_drag = 0.02

minimum_drag = 0.02

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 20

breakingForce = 25

breakingTorque = 80

maxTemp = 3400

explosionPotential = 0.1

fuelCrossFeed = True

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

//dragCoeff = **** REMOVE

//deflectionLiftCoeff = **** REMOVE

Now it all works as smooth as a butter on x64. Maybe some of the ModuleControlSurface can be touched a little bit but not much or your will spawn the phantom acceleration again.

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OK remember I told you wings were messed up , I was RIGHT ! Got a fix for you. What happens is wings cause infiniglade with the current configuration .

And to be more precise the super25surfaceLkso and super25surfaceRkso

*snip config changes to save on length*

Now it all works as smooth as a butter on x64. Maybe some of the ModuleControlSurface can be touched a little bit but not much or your will spawn the phantom acceleration again.

What are you talking about? Is this a problem you were seeing with FAR? Or some other mod? Because I see none of the problems you do.

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What are you talking about? Is this a problem you were seeing with FAR? Or some other mod? Because I see none of the problems you do.

Obviously I wasn't talking to you as you have not seen this problem !

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Obviously I wasn't talking to you as you have not seen this problem !

But... you see, if you had given any more info other than "I have this problem" we could help you...

Why are you changing the stock values of the wings? When are you seeing the problem you described? What mods do you have installed (besides the KSO)? Answers to these questions would allow us to help you.

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But... you see, if you had given any more info other than "I have this problem" we could help you...

Why are you changing the stock values of the wings? When are you seeing the problem you described? What mods do you have installed (besides the KSO)? Answers to these questions would allow us to help you.

Here Buddy :

What is the problem exactly?

and then here with explanation,

and there here is your fulfilling answer

However I have fixed this issue if anyone else have it this is a workaround.

And by the way this is my 1st post Stating my problem, InfiniGlide has been in KSP since KSP has been. Now if KSO was using FAR this wouldn't happen as FAR fixes this bug. And you still have gramma errors with the config(which break stuff) . Check the last post I linked

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Here Buddy :

What is the problem exactly?

and then here with explanation,

and there here is your fulfilling answer

However I have fixed this issue if anyone else have it this is a workaround.

And by the way this is my 1st post Stating my problem, InfiniGlide has been in KSP since KSP has been. Now if KSO was using FAR this wouldn't happen as FAR fixes this bug. And you still have gramma errors with the config(which break stuff) . Check the last post I linked

Congrats. Youre using FAR. If you had said that from the beginning, and no 3 posts later, buried at the end of a post, we could have helped you much faster. The KSO only has rudimentary support for FAR (there are FAR modules in every part config where it makes sense, inlcluding the wings and CSEs). Not everyone runs FAR, and as such the KSOS can not use it by default. There is a FAR config in this thread that you can use (I assume it's a modulemanager patch), that several users have been working on. I recommend that you revert whatever changes you made to your KSO wings and/or CSEs and use the FAR config.

Infact here it is, by ayana: http://pastebin.com/CEBK9CZD

Edited by Avalon304

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Congrats. Youre using FAR. If you had said that from the beginning, and no 3 posts later, buried at the end of a post, we could have helped you much faster. The KSO only has rudimentary support for FAR (there are FAR modules in every part config where it makes sense, inlcluding the wings and CSEs). Not everyone runs FAR, and as such the KSOS cant not use it by default. There is a FAR config in this thread that you can use (I assume it's a modulemanager patch), that several users have been working on. I recommend that you revert whatever changes you made to your KSO wings and/or CSEs and use the FAR config.

Infact here it is, by ayana: http://pastebin.com/CEBK9CZD

I had wondered if there was... so hard to read through every post of every mod I use. /sigh :(

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I had wondered if there was... so hard to read through every post of every mod I use. /sigh :(

Just search the topic for it using the search feature (on the upper right of the thread where it says 'Search Thread'). Searching for 'config' is a good way to see if there are DRE and/or FAR configs for whatever mod you may be using.

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Congrats. Youre using FAR. If you had said that from the beginning, and no 3 posts later, buried at the end of a post, we could have helped you much faster. The KSO only has rudimentary support for FAR (there are FAR modules in every part config where it makes sense, inlcluding the wings and CSEs). Not everyone runs FAR, and as such the KSOS can not use it by default. There is a FAR config in this thread that you can use (I assume it's a modulemanager patch), that several users have been working on. I recommend that you revert whatever changes you made to your KSO wings and/or CSEs and use the FAR config.

Infact here it is, by ayana: http://pastebin.com/CEBK9CZD

I am using that config and the KSO25 will still not slow down it is showing that the wings are shielded and giving no drag so that config is flawed.

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I am using that config and the KSO25 will still not slow down it is showing that the wings are shielded and giving no drag so that config is flawed.

Well, someone should take a look at how the newest version of FAR handles the config. Maybe it did something to cargo bay detection.

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Well, someone should take a look at how the newest version of FAR handles the config. Maybe it did something to cargo bay detection.

Yes someone should that's why I brought it up because I know nothing on how to fix the problem.

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The wings only show as shielded in the VAB. On the pad nothing turns up shielded. Did you actually check if they were shielded in flight or only in the VAB?

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helldiver, a few small requests here, if possible:

- Could you by any chance change the small radial decoupler to use a separate texture instead of one from the orbiter so that it could be used even if all orbiter-related files are removed? Atlasing is an incredibly good thing, but that one particular part is not invariably used with the orbiter parts alone, so it might very well get into a situation where a huge atlas of the orbiter is not available. I doubt it will need more than a tiny 256x256px texture, so one decoupler using a separate texture won't hurt anything.

-That could be possible in the future. A bit of a strange request on a specific item. I'm not quite sure which radial decoupler you mean. Maybe post a screenshot?

- If it's possible to do without breaking existing craft definitions, could you rename all the remaining configs, textures and meshes to show clearly which part set and texture atlas they belong to? At the moment, if you want to, for example, temporarily remove small orbiter but leave space station parts, you have to double-check descriptions in part configs against the opened game to know which part is which. The super25_ and ss_ prefixes that are already in place were a good start, it would be nice to see all the other parts and textures to be grouped in the same manner.

-That is not possible at this point since so many people have prized games going. If you change the config file names you break crafts in saved games (KSP automatically deletes them, how I lost my space station).

-Changing texture names at this point would be extra work for Nazari, in that he'd have to re-export all *.mu file to point to the new names. Texture names aren't a function of the part or set that uses them, but are named after the internal names I use in my baking/photoshop pipeline. That means that some textures weren't supposed to be specific to say Phase 2. They were supposed to be used by other phases as well. However, way back when I discovered that silly KSP doesn't really like to reuse things such as IVA textures. But by then it was too late. Probably why in Phase 3 and now 4, you see texture names be more specific to that pack.

-To further help with that, Phase IV will have an installer that will let you pick and choose what pack you wish to install.

And I'm flattered that you enjoy the KSOS stuff :D

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The wings only show as shielded in the VAB. On the pad nothing turns up shielded. Did you actually check if they were shielded in flight or only in the VAB?

No i did not good catch, guess it's time for coffee to wake up, I was just in game and seen they was not shielded in flight and was coming back to you ninja-ing me! :D

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The wings only show as shielded in the VAB. On the pad nothing turns up shielded. Did you actually check if they were shielded in flight or only in the VAB?
Yes someone should that's why I brought it up because I know nothing on how to fix the problem.
Here Buddy :

What is the problem exactly?

and then here with explanation,

and there here is your fulfilling answer

However I have fixed this issue if anyone else have it this is a workaround.

And by the way this is my 1st post Stating my problem, InfiniGlide has been in KSP since KSP has been. Now if KSO was using FAR this wouldn't happen as FAR fixes this bug. And you still have gramma errors with the config(which break stuff) . Check the last post I linked

@nismobg

I'm confused with what the problem is.

Is there a problem with the default KSO Config file?

I will take a look at the files in question and compare.

I can't make promises, but I will try and see if we can come up with a FAR config we can add as an alternate install with Phase IV.

OK remember I told you wings were messed up , I was RIGHT ! Got a fix for you. What happens is wings cause infiniglade with the current configuration .

And to be more precise the super25surfaceLkso and super25surfaceRkso

So what i did is change the ModuleControlSurface to :


MODULE
{
name = ModuleControlSurface
dragCoeff = 0.5
deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.7
ctrlSurfaceRange = 20
ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.95
}

and removed from

mass = 0.08
dragModelType = override
maximum_drag = 0.02
minimum_drag = 0.02
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 20
breakingForce = 25
breakingTorque = 80
maxTemp = 3400
explosionPotential = 0.1
fuelCrossFeed = True
// --- winglet parameters ---
// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value
//dragCoeff = **** REMOVE
//deflectionLiftCoeff = **** REMOVE


Now it all works as smooth as a butter on x64. Maybe some of the ModuleControlSurface can be touched a little bit but not much or your will spawn the phantom acceleration again.

Is this for a default wing installation without FAR/DRE?

Edited by helldiver

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FAR just seems to get confused about it in the VAB for some reason. I have no idea.

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@nismobg

I'm confused with what the problem is.

Is there a problem with the default KSO Config file?

I will take a look at the files in question and compare.

I can't make promises, but I will try and see if we can come up with a FAR config we can add as an alternate install with Phase IV.

I'm not the ModuleManager expert really, but I think you can make it check if FAR is installed before applying patches.

I also had to offset the wing model and attachment nodes to make FAR happy. You can go look at the config file yourself to see what was necessary.

Is this for a default wing installation without FAR/DRE?

I just looked into the default configuration file for a Super 25 control surface. There's one "dragCoeff" line that isn't commented out.

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

dragCoeff = 0.2

//deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.2

Changing that made things work, as far as I've tested.

Edited by ayana

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I'm not the ModuleManager expert really, but I think you can make it check if FAR is installed before applying patches.

I also had to offset the wing model and attachment nodes to make FAR happy. You can go look at the config file yourself to see what was necessary.

I just looked into the default configuration file for a Super 25 control surface. There's one "dragCoeff" line that isn't commented out.

Changing that made things work, as far as I've tested.

Changing and testing now, will let you know.

Wait do I comment out the one that isn't or have you already fixed the problem in this?

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

dragCoeff = 0.2

//deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.2

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Changing and testing now, will let you know.

Wait do I comment out the one that isn't or have you already fixed the problem in this?

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

dragCoeff = 0.2

//deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.2

You comment that out. It's already defined elsewhere, so something gets confused by this.

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So, I know it's not supposed to be a space plane, but I went ahead and converted it into one.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Here's my


@PART[super25wingRkso]
{
@MODEL
{
position = 0,-3.25,0
}
@node_stack_top = 0.09045, -1.40075, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
@node_stack_bottom = 2.2, -6.038, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_top = 0.09045, 1.84925, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_bottom = 2.2, -2.7880, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
}

@PART[super25wingLkso]
{
@MODEL
{
position = 0,-3.25,0
}
@node_stack_top = -0.09045, -1.40075, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
@node_stack_bottom = -2.2, -6.038, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_top = -0.09045, 1.84925, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_bottom = -2.2, -2.7880, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
}

EDIT: Updated


@PART[super25wingRkso]
{
@MODEL
{
position = 0,-3,1.04
}
@node_stack_top = 0.09045, -1.15075, 1.04, 0, 1, 0, 2
@node_stack_bottom = 2.2, -5.788, 1.01, 0, -1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_top = 0.09045, 1.84925, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_bottom = 2.2, -2.7880, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
}

@PART[super25wingLkso]
{
@MODEL
{
position = 0,-3,1.04
}
@node_stack_top = -0.09045, -1.15075, 1.04, 0, 1, 0, 2
@node_stack_bottom = -2.2, -5.788, 1.01, 0, -1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_top = -0.09045, 1.84925, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2
// @node_stack_bottom = -2.2, -2.7880, -0.03, 0, -1, 0, 2
}

Puts the CoL and CoM on the same horizontal plane under the stock setup and prevents the CoM from travelling behind the CoL when dry and without cargo.

You have to reattach the wings and CSE's on your craft if you use this. And this is with stock physics.

EDIT: I knew I shouldn't write when tired. I meant the CoM travels behind CoL in the third screenshot description.

EDIT: Here's my


@PART[rearkso]
{
-RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}
-RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
-RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
}

@PART[cgholdkso]
{
RESOURCE
{
name = LiquidFuel
amount = 360
maxAmount = 360
}

RESOURCE
{
name = Oxidizer
amount = 440
maxAmount = 440
}
RESOURCE
{
name = MonoPropellant
amount = 160
maxAmount = 160
}
}

for the original KSO set up in the same spaceplane get-up as you see in the KSO25 album. I had to cheat on this one. The problem with the original KSO is that it likes to fall on its tail on the runway when setup as a spaceplane. The CoM is too far past the main gear when setup as a spaceplane. So I removed all the fuel, oxidizer, and monoprop from the rear of the craft, and placed it in the cargohold part (I'm going to pretend it is actually distributed within the wings too like a real aircraft, but I didn't want to worry about the fuel becoming unbalanced between wings. Otherwise I would have gone this route) to compensate for the heavy rapier engines. Now when setup as a spaceplane, it sits nice and pretty on the runway and still flies well. I have the right-angle docking port in the cargobay of this one. Existing craft files will still have the resources in the rearkso part, so they have to be replaced to get the effect. The cargohold part shows up with the resources in existing craft files, though.

Edited by qnistNAMEERF

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I wrote up an interesting challenge (if I do say so myself) that showcases the KSO shuttle and space station parts. Check it out [thread=88371]here[/thread].

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OK I've done ayana's fix, it didn't work, then I did nismobg's fix and it is still not wanting to keep the nose up and is slowing down, it's just not slowing down fast enough and DREC is eating it alive. IDK what else to do except just conclude that it does not work with FAR.

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OK I've done ayana's fix, it didn't work, then I did nismobg's fix and it is still not wanting to keep the nose up and is slowing down, it's just not slowing down fast enough and DREC is eating it alive. IDK what else to do except just conclude that it does not work with FAR.

Try doing it on both these files : super25surfaceLkso.cfg and super25surfaceRkso.cfg

mass = 0.08

dragModelType = override

maximum_drag = 0.02

minimum_drag = 0.02

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 20

breakingForce = 25

breakingTorque = 80

maxTemp = 3400

explosionPotential = 0.1

fuelCrossFeed = True

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

//dragCoeff = **** REMOVE

//deflectionLiftCoeff = **** REMOVE

MODULE

{

name = ModuleControlSurface

dragCoeff = 0.5

deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.7

ctrlSurfaceRange = 20

ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.95

}

Remove the old name = ModuleControlSurface Module so they don't duplicate.

@helldiver, the problem was that the control surfaces on the wing extensions were producing phantom acceleration(at least in x64 with FAR), it's an old KSP stock bug. Might be because of too many duplication but i don't know. All i know this fixes it.

If I apply the FAR MM the KSO is just super fragile. This config makes it super comfortable to operate(and it doesn't fall apart at 150m/s).

This makes it not speed up when you point up an your engines are off. About slowing down problem you have, that's how FAR works. So it will glide longer then stock in a way.

How I did my test (x64 with FAR,DRE): Lunch at pad till 100-150m/s , take 90degree north and separate everything . Now cut throttle to 0m/s and watch the shuttle accelerate as if it is at max throttle. Even more if you point the nose Up.

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Try doing it on both these files : super25surfaceLkso.cfg and super25surfaceRkso.cfg

mass = 0.08

dragModelType = override

maximum_drag = 0.02

minimum_drag = 0.02

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 20

breakingForce = 25

breakingTorque = 80

maxTemp = 3400

explosionPotential = 0.1

fuelCrossFeed = True

// --- winglet parameters ---

// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value

//dragCoeff = **** REMOVE

//deflectionLiftCoeff = **** REMOVE

MODULE

{

name = ModuleControlSurface

dragCoeff = 0.5

deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.7

ctrlSurfaceRange = 20

ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.95

}

Remove the old name = ModuleControlSurface Module so they don't duplicate.

@helldiver, the problem was that the control surfaces on the wing extensions were producing phantom acceleration(at least in x64 with FAR), it's an old KSP stock bug. Might be because of too many duplication but i don't know. All i know this fixes it.

If I apply the FAR MM the KSO is just super fragile. This config makes it super comfortable to operate(and it doesn't fall apart at 150m/s).

This makes it not speed up when you point up an your engines are off. About slowing down problem you have, that's how FAR works. So it will glide longer then stock in a way.

How I did my test (x64 with FAR,DRE): Lunch at pad till 100-150m/s , take 90degree north and separate everything . Now cut throttle to 0m/s and watch the shuttle accelerate as if it is at max throttle. Even more if you point the nose Up.

So delete the whole module? so it should look like this?

PART
{
// this is a sample config file, for determining a good file format for defining part parameters
// comment line - ignored by cfg parser
// empty lines, or lines without a '=' sign are also ignored
// all other lines are split at the '=' sign, and the left operand is used to know what parameter we are setting
// diferent parameters require data in different formats (see docs), and each module has it's own parameters (again, see docs)
// each assignment must be in a single line. Lines without assignments will be ignored. (You CAN turn on word wrap, though)
// each keyword here relates to an existing variable in the assigned module. If the keyword isn't found, it is ignored.
// conversely, if a keyword is left unassigned (as in not in the file), it will be initialized with it's default value
// This is done automatically, so any public variable defined in the loaded module can be accessed this way (provided it's value can be parsed)


// --- general parameters ---
name = super25surfaceLkso
module = Part
author = helldiver

// --- asset parameters ---
MODEL
{
model = KSO/Parts/super25surfaceLkso
}
scale = 1
rescaleFactor = 1

// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = supersonicFlight
entryCost = 4900
cost = 450
category = Aero
subcategory = 0
title = KSO EWBCL Left CSE
manufacturer = Kerbal Materials Corp.
description = To improve the larger orbiter's flight handling characteristics at low speeds, the KSO EWBCL features Control Surface Extenders or CSEs. This system extends the control surfaces of the wings incorporating the flaps, elevons, and ailerons into a dynamic unit managed by the onboard flight computer. They are powered by high torque, digitally controlled, multi-function servos and hydraulics. The CSEs are adorned with a unique aerogel-metallic tiles which are part of its thermal protection system.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,1,1,1

// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.32398, 0.0, 0, 1, 0, 2


//node_attach = -0.09045, 1.84925, 0.0, 1, 0, 0, 1

//node_stack_flap = -2.0811, -3.3107, 1.0365, 0, -1, 0, 1
//node_stack_elev = -3.6956, -3.3102, 0.9631, 0, -1, 0, 1

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 0.08
dragModelType = override
maximum_drag = 0.02
minimum_drag = 0.02
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 20
breakingForce = 25
breakingTorque = 80
maxTemp = 3400
explosionPotential = 0.1
fuelCrossFeed = True
// --- winglet parameters ---
// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value



MODULE
{
name = FSanimateGeneric
animationLayer = 3
animationName = Take002
startEventGUIName = Extend Flaps
endEventGUIName = Retract Flaps
toggleActionName = Toggle Flap Extension
}

//MODULE
//{
// name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
// MAC = 2.264
// e = 0.75
// MidChordSweep = 22.16
// b_2 = 3.601
// TaperRatio = 0.188
//}

// --- tweakables (coming soon...) ---


MODULE
{
name = FSairBrake
targetPartObject = spoilersmall
deployedDrag = 0.25
deployedAngle = 48
stepAngle = 10
}

MODULE
{
name = FSairBrake
targetPartObject = spoilerlarge
deployedDrag = 0.45
deployedAngle = 48
stepAngle = 10
}

// ----- DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS POINT ------

}

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