Ion engines OP?

[lammatt]

Isp of 4100 or so.

Thrust of 500 mN. (0.5 kN)

well...

G (1e9)

M (1e6)

K (1e3)

d (1/10)

c (1/100)

m (1/1e3)

mju (1/1e6)

n (1/1e7)

p (1/1e9)

you cant even get your understanding on prefixes right... and then you proceed to talk like as if you know what you are talking about....

hm....

Edited February 6, 2014 by lammatt

[fireflower]

This is physics, you can't just use a unit that's three orders of magnitude off!

One order of magnitude is ok though.

Thanks for catching that, I was about to correct it myself.

[maccollo]

The PB-ION is the definition of over powered. It is over 2,000 times more powerful than NEXT (comparable ion engine). And about 500 times more powerful than the VASIMR that will be tested on the ISS (which needs capacitors just to run the thing).

The LV-N is much weaker than in real life, but it isn't underpowered. Similarly the ion engine are not overpowered. You could say it's not authentic, but it certainly isn't overpowered.

I realize that it's arguing semantics but terms like that are used to describe the internal balance in a game. People say the rockomax 48-7s is overpowered, not because it's superior to it's real life counterpart, but because it makes engines like the LV-909 irrelevant.

Edited February 6, 2014 by maccollo

[Levelord]

The ion engines are so OP that it's the least used engine in KSP.

/sarcasm.

[Tripzter]

So you folks that use these, what do you do? Add 10-20 of them to your rocket?

[lammatt]

So you folks that use these, what do you do? Add 10-20 of them to your rocket?

no one actually uses them

the ones who do, they use it on light probes and when they do orbital manuevers, they go AFK for a coffee and then come back

[Rakaydos]

I designed an ion powered lifter to bring kethane from minmus to minmus orbit.

It's only cappable of launching at sunrise or sunset, and can only land at midday at the target site. And it brings a single FL400- equivilant tank of Kethane.

[KasperVld]

you cant even get your understanding on prefixes right... and then you proceed to talk like as if you know what you are talking about....

hm....

I don't think this comment was called for...

[The Error]

Most people don't have the time/patience/both to sit through a five hour "burn" to get out of orbit with an ion engine. They're reasonably powered for those who DO use them, and if they get nerfed, they will quickly become unused except in challenges or die-hard Ion'ers.

If you like realism, Orbiter exists.

[Matt56]

You might also want to consider the mass of the engine. Assuming 1 unit of KSP mass is 1 metric ton (1000kg) then the ion engine is 250kg, which is pretty heavy. NSTAR, of which there are three units on the Dawn spacecraft, is about one tenth of that mass.

[mdatspace]

Ion engines OP?

They are the only engines which give you 20 minute burns.

[Felsmak]

But there is no way in Jool that I could ever use all of the Xenon.

I remember the first and so far only time I've ever used up an entire xenon tank. I had just managed to enter a highly eccentric orbit around Moho, and I was so happy.

[frizzank]

Ion's are too slow. I would rather them be less efficient and use more fuel.

I want to play the game, not watch an Ion engine burn for 20 minuets.....

[Merinsan]

Ion's are too slow. I would rather them be less efficient and use more fuel.

I want to play the game, not watch an Ion engine burn for 20 minuets.....

20 minutes is nothing...

I've had 3hr burns using nukes. Not that I enjoyed it. I'm not going to be using this design again.

If I used ions instead of nukes, it'd probably be a 10 day burn (just a guess).

[Renegrade]

Well, what does everyone else think?

Well, as others have said, while the thrust is way too high, the specific impulse is actually kinda average/low end for next-gen designs. Also I've never needed an ion drive - once you're into OKTO2s and LV-1s, you can stage the heck out of chemical rockets, have fast burns, and be well into five figures of delta-V. The lack of Science Spamming in KSP 0.23 also devalues the mega-powerplant designs of typical ion probes anyhow.

(NB: a Timberwind NTR can be upwards of the thrust of a Skipper and 1000 specific impulse in vacuum while weighing half as much, so you could say that the LV-N is actually rather underpowered too -- but that could just be more of a "career mode has no real progress" issue~)

[Aragosnat]

no one actually uses them

the ones who do, they use it on light probes and when they do orbital manuevers, they go AFK for a coffee and then come back

I use them and do go for coffee, dinner, launch, potty brakes, read a book or chat on a certain chat place talking about a certain game that came out before I bought KSP which a lot of people spent insane amount of funds on.

Anyways. 10-20 mintue burns are nothing even when using the forced 4 x warp. Think I had either a 10 or 14 hour rl burn once due to the fact I was unwares I should have gone much much lighter with the design. Best so far is 1 engine per 5 tons of mass with 60 to 80% being xenon fuel with the rest being for solar panels, batteries, control (probe or Kerbal) and 1 PB-Nuk just because I hate burning on the dark side and ending up with no electricty as well as just in case I need to do an aero capture that requires me to burn before and after entering atmosphere while on the dark side of the moon or planet. 5% of thrust, roughly, can still be very useful. Now I just wish I did not have to have a mod that gives me such large amounts of fuel.

As you can tell I like to make sure I have enough fuel to get anywhere as I have a tendincy to waste a lot of fuel to get to places. Yeah my launch timing sucks.

[Felsmak]

I wonder if it would be possible to land on the Mun using only ion engines. Whoever pulls that off will win the game.

[Rakaydos]

I wonder if it would be possible to land on the Mun using only ion engines. Whoever pulls that off will win the game.

No, Mun's got too much gravity. a single ion engine, no fuel or power, has a TWR of .25. Once you add Xenon, structure, a probe core, and enough power to run them, your TWR is below .1

I have landed on munmus with them, though.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rakaydos

[Felsmak]

No, Mun's got too much gravity. a single ion engine, no fuel or power, has a TWR of .25. Once you add Xenon, structure, a probe core, and enough power to run them, your TWR is below .1

Challenge accepted!

[RSwordsman]

Ion engines are basically glorified light bulbs. How could you say they're overpowered?

Certainly they're adjusted for gameplay purposes as I'm sure was said in 5 pages, but I wouldn't want fully realistic ones. Heck, I don't even use them now with the Interstellar pack XD.

[ThinkOutsideTheHangar]

Ion engines aren't OP when you consider the massive amount of electricity it uses.