Jump to content

"Once you're in low Earth orbit you're halfway to anywhere"... Prove it!


Recommended Posts

i thought it was a challenge to make something like this so you had a lot of extra weight for your airbreathing engines.

You are right that the air breathing engines add a lot of weight that you have to carry with you. However, the air breathing engines also allow you to make orbit using almost no fuel at all; that's what I'm exploiting for the Moho flight. For all practical purposes, I make it to orbit with that craft fully fueled, so adding a booster would gain me nothing.

The reason Tylo might be doable with a booster is that I could build an SSTO that did not use jet engines. While that design would be much less efficient getting to LKO, if I built it correctly it would be more efficient for operations in space and at Tylo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm feeling the challenge has in fact nothing to do with its original motto "Once you're in low Earth orbit you're halfway to anywhere".

The quote is about dv budget. Amount of dv that can get you to orbit is about the same as amount of dv that can get you from orbit to anywhere else.

The challenge is nothing about that. It's about building the most monstrous single-stage (bonus for spaceplanes) that can get to Kerbin orbit and has as much dv as possible in space to perform a grand tour of the system.

So there. I have my "monstrous" single-stage capable of doing grand tour and now I'm just trying to figure out how to stick some wings to it not because it needs any in space but because there's bonus for putting these trinkets on my ship. And I kinda couldn't avoid the feeling that what I'm doing is completely pointless and has nothing to do with the original idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do realize Stochasty's SSTO is not even close to that? So how are you going to enforce that idea?

Dude, its a game, and there are already people playing and enjoying this challenge. Stop being so negative, think in the spirit of the challenge!

If you dont like it, you dont HAVE to participate, many other challenges to try. If you do like it but think the rules should be sharpened, come with some tips instead of talking down the general idea.

Just my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude, its a game, and there are already people playing and enjoying this challenge. Stop being so negative, think in the spirit of the challenge!

If you dont like it, you dont HAVE to participate, many other challenges to try. If you do like it but think the rules should be sharpened, come with some tips instead of talking down the general idea.

Just my 2 cents.

Tottaly agree with MarkoeZ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ksp11.jpg

I have been dabbeling a bit with this craft. It's not done yet. lacks some fuel lines and some other comodities. It gets into LKO with allmost 85% of the fuel left. The front part can be decoupled and will become a nerva powered space plane with about 8300dv. Both parts should be able to land seperately. At the moent it lacks RCS to do orbital maneuvres to dock and land. The atmospheric drive module allso have a good bit of dv left and should be able to get itselv to minimus or something.

If i get the challenge spirit going I will se if I can't make a trip somwhere with this one. If noone object that it fits the rules for this challenge.

Edited by cyberklad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are supposed to build an SSTO that can barely get into orbit.
Tottaly agree with MarkoeZ

So are we supposed to do it or not? I guess not. It would be stupid to do what you formally declare we are "supposed to do". Being fair and following the spirit of the challenge is a disadvantage.

That returns us to my initial point: the challenge has nothing to do with the quote in its name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are we supposed to do it or not? I guess not. It would be stupid to do what you formally declare we are "supposed to do". Being fair and following the spirit of the challenge is a disadvantage.

That returns us to my initial point: the challenge has nothing to do with the quote in its name.

The challenge removes every advantage that a SSTO spaceplane is supposed to have over a big rocket. Sending a plane up on top of a rocket is just wasteful. If one could send a SSTO up into orbit, and then refuel it before setting off on a mission to see how far you could get. Well people might not be as eager to use any advantage they can make.

After all, junk in, junk out.

If one took a challenge like this. And supplied a craft that was to be used. A craft that has enough fuel to get into orbit and to a refueling station. And let people shoot the stoc refueler into orbit. Then see how far people could get that vehicle, that would have been a good and fun challenge.

The craft could have for example 1 nerva and two of those rapier engines. And the amount of fuel that can carry out into orbit. Since everyone would fuel the craft to capacity. probably in a 100km orbit. The challenge would be equal for everyone. And most important of all, the challenge would make sense in a practical sort of manner.

Since there is well allmost endless of diffrent designers, and probably more diffrent crafts. You will never manage to get a contest in the spirit of the name of the challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another huge problem with this challenge is that it asks for a spaceplane SSTO that can barely get into orbit. If you desing an efficient plane that can get into orbit you load it up with liquid fuel and air breathing engines to do most of the heavy lifting. Without air abusing air intakes you can get a plane that can push itselfe up to a bit ove 30k on air breathing engines alone. And then you just carry enough oxidizer for the last push and circulization. This means that even if you put a well designed craft that is soppused to be a shuttle to LKO on the top of a rocked. And you blast that one into LKO It will most likely go nowhere pretty slowly.

So to try to excecute this challenge in the spirit of the title. Well then you would need to build a SSTO rocket. Building a single stage rocket that has an atmospheric delta v of 4600, it gets to be quite big.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SSTO Tylo lander isn't that hard.

A single stage trip from Kerbin to Tylo and back is not possible using stock parts. The TWR requirements for landing on Tylo and returning to orbit, in conjunction with the delta-v requirements for the trip, leave too little payload to mount the air breathing engines and jet fuel required to get into orbit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the OP and would just like to interject here.

In almost all cases, LKO is halfway to anywhere. This post shows that reaching LKO requires 4550m/s Delta V, with the exception of Jool's moons , you can reach low orbit around any body in the Kerbol system using only a further 4550m/s Delta V or less.

Does this tick the box as proof? It might not be physical evidence, but it's solid mathematical evidence that proves that, in theory, when you're in LKO you really are halfway to anywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

did a trial run last night, mun flyby, ike flyby and duna crashlanding (cockpit survived!)

Had about half my fuel left, so should be able to go way further, especially with some gravity assists :)

So yeah, think i could get just about anywhere with the simple craft i built, just gonna add some chutes for planets with atmosphere ;)

Going to do a scoring run soon, with youtube vid, but recently switched to linux and need to get screen recording working properly again.

Cheers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my entry: successful Tylo landing. Bingo fuel at the end, but I made it. I tried to stay within the spirit of the OP and ended up with an SSTO that can get into a 99-km circular orbit. This one had 700 m/s dV left when it got there, tho, presumably for maneuvering. I did use a couple of additional mods: TAC Fuel Balancer and Precise Node -- hope that's okay.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

If Tylo is the hardest place to land in KSP, and I was able to get there, then this confirms that a vessel capable of getting into LKO is indeed halfway to anywhere.

Getting back? Not so much ;)

Prospective score calculation: +100 Jool flyby; +15 Jool orbit; + 15 Laythe flyby; +8 Tylo flyby; +20 Tylo orbit; +90 Tylo landing = 248 points.

Edited by Jasonden
added score calc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...