jrandom Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It works! Managed a sustained Mach 4 flight... until...So... engines generate a little bit of thrust even when the throttle is at zero, yes? Because I killed the throttle (just after the below screenshot was taken) and the engine still continued to accelerate (slowly) until it passed the engine's Mach 4.1 temperature limit and exploded. What is one normally supposed to do in situations like this?(And how do I hide images inside a spoiler?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It works! Managed a sustained Mach 4 flight... until...So... engines generate a little bit of thrust even when the throttle is at zero, yes? Because I killed the throttle (just after the below screenshot was taken) and the engine still continued to accelerate (slowly) until it passed the engine's Mach 4.1 temperature limit and exploded. What is one normally supposed to do in situations like this?https://i.imgur.com/sS1fByA.jpg(And how do I hide images inside a spoiler?)Use a smaller engine or deploy airbrakes if your speed gets too high (You can even automate them with a Kerbal OS script).Thrust in AJE is a function of mass flow and exhaust velocity, while mass flow is a function of the engine design, intake area and speed. If the mass flow rate through the engine at idle is high enough to make you accelerate you will go faster and faster until the engine explodes. This is the sort of behavior you might expect from a ramjet, but it is probably unrealistic for a turbojet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, it was an awfully big engine for the plane. Another question: I just had my engines flame out when I throttled down to zero but they refused to start up again. There was plenty of fuel and airflow. Is there a way to recover from this during flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Another question: I just had my engines flame out when I throttled down to zero but they refused to start up again. There was plenty of fuel and airflow. Is there a way to recover from this during flight?This is a bug in SolverEngines. Currently figuring out what the best way to fix it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) This is a bug in SolverEngines. Currently figuring out what the best way to fix it is.Is the flameout actually meant to happen? Under some conditions (excessive AoA, extended periods of -ive G, inert gas entering the intake etc.) RL engines will flame out, so its probably not unrealistic for that to happen in game. The simplest solution I can think of is a 'restart' button that resets the engine to a condition where it can operate properly again.Edit: On the topic of thrust vs speed, I just did some testing with the F100 engine. Flying at 12km I was able to get my MiG-23 knockoff to super-cruise at mach 2.9, though even with the afterburner off it ran out of fuel after about 300km. I could have gone a little faster, but I was concerned about overheating the engine. SR-71 eat your heart out. Edited June 1, 2015 by Nerd1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The simplest solution I can think of is a 'restart' button that resets the engine to a condition where it can operate properly again.Or if adding yet another button, make it so shutting the engines off and then on again restarts them? Either way would make me happy, although a custom Restart action would help conserve precious, precious custom action keyboard shortcuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 After some experimentation, I have found that limiting the exhaust velocity of subsonic jets to the speed of sound (in the exhaust) does seem to fix the problem of them producing too much supersonic thrust. They still produce a decent amount of thrust up to Mach 2 or so (particularly the smaller, lower bypass models), but the ram effect is basically gone, and the thrust curves look more correct compared to other engines (previously thrust was growing faster than some military turbofans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) After some experimentation, I have found that limiting the exhaust velocity of subsonic jets to the speed of sound (in the exhaust) does seem to fix the problem of them producing too much supersonic thrust. They still produce a decent amount of thrust up to Mach 2 or so (particularly the smaller, lower bypass models), but the ram effect is basically gone, and the thrust curves look more correct compared to other engines (previously thrust was growing faster than some military turbofans).Did you ever figure out what was making those random flameouts happen? I'm finding that any attempt to change the exhaust velocity calculations in the jet engine solver causes the same issue.Edit: I just commented out the entire engine flameout part of the solver and its still happening... Edited June 2, 2015 by Nerd1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Did you ever figure out what was making those random flameouts happen? I'm finding that any attempt to change the exhaust velocity calculations in the jet engine solver causes the same issue.Edit: I just commented out the entire engine flameout part of the solver and its still happening...It's a bug in SolverEngines. Cause known, pending fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Update: bug is fixed. Unintended flameouts should lo longer occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Update: bug is fixed. Unintended flameouts should lo longer occur.Fixed in AJE or fixed in SolverEngines? (Wait... do I update both?)Edit: Nevermind, SE is included. Silly me. Edited June 4, 2015 by jrandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jab136 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) is VOID one of the currently unsupported mods for the dev build?there is clearly propellant left, and the engine is at full throttle, but the dv and TWR are both showing as 0P.S. I know it is an ugly plane, but I am playing career and I don't have many partsEdit: I am using a version from the dev build that I downloaded earlier today Edited June 11, 2015 by jab136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 is VOID one of the currently unsupported mods for the dev build?http://i59.tinypic.com/295zm2c.jpgthere is clearly propellant left, and the engine is at full throttle, but the dv and TWR are both showing as 0P.S. I know it is an ugly plane, but I am playing career and I don't have many partsEdit: I am using a version from the dev build that I downloaded earlier todaySorry, but this one is on VOID's end. I'm not 100% sure what's going on here, but I'm guessing that VOID is simulating stock engines based on the way stock engines work rather than asking each engine for its actual thrust and Isp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jab136 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 ok, I will make a comment on that thread in that case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeter Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) edit: Changed, wrong thread and possibly caused by my mistake. Edited June 15, 2015 by Temeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klgraham1013 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Last piece of the RO puzzle. Looking forward to the update! Might try out the dev version in the mean time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I made a semi-official release on github. https://github.com/camlost2/AJE/releases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 With that realease my game freezes during loading, usually at the jet or nuclear engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 With that realease my game freezes during loading, usually at the jet or nuclear engines.Well, no one can know what the problem is until you post your output_log.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well, no one can know what the problem is until you post your output_log.txtI'd love too, but it's not an actual freeze. The loading process just stops at one part, witty hints continue cycling, I can still switch fullscreen/window. I have to manually kill the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'd love too, but it's not an actual freeze. The loading process just stops at one part, witty hints continue cycling, I can still switch fullscreen/window. I have to manually kill the game.output_log.txt is still created in the KSP_Data folder. It's updated and saved even during normal game operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Oh, i did not know that! I strated by quoting the last bit here instead of uploading it fully, since it looks rather interesting:(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartLoader: Compiling Part 'AJE/Parts/Props/TwinCyclone7/TwinCyclone-R2600-7'(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'Firespitter/Parts/Engine/FS_PropellerEngine/model' as model does not exist(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot compile model(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot compile part(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartLoader: Compiling Part 'AJE/Parts/Props/TwinWasp94/TwinWasp-R1830-94'(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'Firespitter/Parts/Engine/FS_PropellerEngine/model' as model does not exist(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot compile model(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartCompiler: Cannot compile part(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartLoader: Compiling Part 'AtomicAge/Parts/KANDL/KANDL/nuclearEngineKANDL'(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)EffectList: Created 13 effect types(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)*RF* Loading RFSETTINGS global settings(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)PartLoader: Part 'AtomicAge/Parts/KANDL/KANDL/nuclearEngineKANDL' has no database record. Creating.(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'nuclearEngineKANDL'(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.UpdateFlightCondition'. at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.GetInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader.CompilePartInfo (.AvailablePart newPartInfo, .Part part) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 (Filename: Line: -1)[DeadlyReentry.DRToolBar] OnDestroy() called - destroying button(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)KANDLE is the tiny Nuke from atomic age (that one doesn't have an RO config afair), but removing one mod just makes it stop at another engine, e.g. the stock jet engine.edit: Full log, if helpful:http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=04395916013345394748 Edited June 23, 2015 by Temeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Make sure you have the latest versions of both SolverEngines and AJE. The method signature for UpdateFlightCondition was changed recently such that everything had to be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) EDIT: Nvm, Nvm, Nvm, the thing was my mistake! RealFuels very recently fixed an issue that could kill the loading process. I did ofc instantly install it, Apparently fixing the issue involved removing a file though, and i didn't actually remove the old folder and just overwrote the update. Just removed/reinstalled RealFuels and KSP does finish the loading process this time.Sorry for wasting your time!----------------------------I've already tried the solver engine that comes with Realism Overhaul (i'm using RSS/RO), the AJE prerelease one from the link nathankell just posted, and just now a direct download from the mods page. Everything results in the same result, the loading just stopping and this:PartLoader: Compiling Part 'AtomicAge/Parts/KANDL/KANDL/nuclearEngineKANDL'(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)EffectList: Created 13 effect types(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)*RF* Loading RFSETTINGS global settings(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.UpdateFlightCondition'. at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.GetInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader.CompilePartInfo (.AvailablePart newPartInfo, .Part part) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 (Filename: Line: -1)Btw: I'm using OpenGL, but i had the issue the first time i created a new (DX) 102 RSS/RO install. Played the game without the AJE mod after that. Edited June 23, 2015 by Temeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowfish Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I think you have an outdated version of RF. Make sure you're on 10.3 or later. Edited June 23, 2015 by blowfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts