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APOLLO (SATURN-V with F1 & J2, APOLLO CSM, LEM, LLRV). by OLDD (v.1.4. 09.05.14)


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in v.1.1.1. some node_attach and details overlaps has been tuned. for example internal LEM windows with external window borders overlap etc, some other details. not a lot of changes. hope new bugs will not born

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I've noticed that aside from hideous red struts (come on, the OP even has a picture with evidence for them being white!), the LES has some smoothing issues. It seems that some edges are soft when they should be sharp. Could you check that? And remove the red paint from the struts while you're at it, it looks terrible.

The rest of the rocket is fine, at least, though the CM still has some red parts (mostly visible from the top), it's much better than it used to be. Generally, everything you made red should be in some shade of gray.

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I've noticed that aside from hideous red struts (come on, the OP even has a picture with evidence for them being white!), the LES has some smoothing issues. It seems that some edges are soft when they should be sharp. Could you check that? And remove the red paint from the struts while you're at it, it looks terrible.

The rest of the rocket is fine, at least, though the CM still has some red parts (mostly visible from the top), it's much better than it used to be. Generally, everything you made red should be in some shade of gray.

You're awfully demanding for someone who has contributed absolutely zero time and energy to creating anything of your own. Calling someone's work "hideous" because one small portion of it isn't colored in a historically accurate way is the epitome of being an asshole.

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Well, the struts look jarring and ugly. Also inaccurate, but on any other LES, they'd look just as bad, and I'd criticize them the same. It's just a small detail, but it' be a good improvement to see it fixed. You are entitled to agree with this artistic direction and call this red covering pretty. I'm entitled to call it hideous and ugly, because it just doesn't fit there. Historical accuracy is just another argument for getting rid of the reds. And finally, it's not a problem with his work, but a particular artistic decision on his part. Read what you quote before posting.

Oh, and do your research before you post, too. I did, in fact, contribute plenty of my time and energy to create a mod: CSS wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for me (and plenty of other awesome people, too, but that's beside the point). I know what it takes to modify a texture. Hint: not much. It's actually a neat improvement that could be achieved for the cheap. And before you ask, I can do it just fine, it's just that I can't release that change, so it's still worth suggesting.

If my criticism seems harsh for you, here's the tip: don't poke making art of any sort with a 10-foot pole. There are going to be people who don't like it, and their ways of expressing opinions will vary. Now find something better to do than criticizing the way people criticize others' work.

Edited by Guest
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Yeah, let's get back to being constructive, I'm fed up with kids for the day. :) I've found some more bugs. The latch on the CM decoupler doesn't move. Also, in the new version, I've noticed that it's difficult to get LEM into correct spot on the attachment plate. Oh, and there are still red protective covers inside the ullage motor nozzles. Another thing I found that the separation looks much better if the burn time of the motors is increased 3x, and thrust a bit decreased. I also see some balance issues with the LEM, though I'll have to give it more tests.

Edited by Guest
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I have a question I am only getting to around 17km on the first stage does this seem low in comparison with the real rocket which had a 67 km burnout on the first stage so if you do a comparison, thats if my math adds up should be around 37km or am i totally off here

Edited by Virtualgenius
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The node connection between the parachute cover and the cm is very loose and wobbly, especially on reentry or. Also, if you time warp in the atmosphere the parachutes and balloons look like they're being torn away from the cm.

All bugs aside, this is still the BEST mod imo.

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Well, the struts look jarring and ugly. Also inaccurate, but on any other LES, they'd look just as bad, and I'd criticize them the same. It's just a small detail, but it' be a good improvement to see it fixed. You are entitled to agree with this artistic direction and call this red covering pretty. I'm entitled to call it hideous and ugly, because it just doesn't fit there. Historical accuracy is just another argument for getting rid of the reds. And finally, it's not a problem with his work, but a particular artistic decision on his part. Read what you quote before posting.

Oh, and do your research before you post, too. I did, in fact, contribute plenty of my time and energy to create a mod: CSS wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for me (and plenty of other awesome people, too, but that's beside the point). I know what it takes to modify a texture. Hint: not much. It's actually a neat improvement that could be achieved for the cheap. And before you ask, I can do it just fine, it's just that I can't release that change, so it's still worth suggesting.

If my criticism seems harsh for you, here's the tip: don't poke making art of any sort with a 10-foot pole. There are going to be people who don't like it, and their ways of expressing opinions will vary. Now find something better to do than criticizing the way people criticize others' work.

Dude you are all over these forums criticizing modders work. I just don't think you realize how much they, don't have to be doing what they are doing. They could simply do it for themselves and not share it. No one is doubting your historical knowledge of the Saturn V and no one is is denying your passion for realism, but STFU!! If you really want an exact Saturn V replica build one yourself!!! Be diplomatic with these people, ask nicely, and you might get a response as to what their rationale was. You blow past diplomacy and go straight to criticism and subtly. Its people like you that cause MODs to close or be abandoned because the modders just dont want to deal with crap from people like you anymore. No matter how bad the MOD is a certain level of appreciation and respect needs to be given because its really not an easy thing making something that remotely looks like the Saturn V and function. To do with Frizz and Denny are doing is unbelievable and your complaining about the effing red paint on the LES!!!! Im sorry but cant just appreciate that it functions just like the Saturn V and is a very very good model. Without these guys you would be stacking stock tanks and lander pods hoping to make a stable rocket to make it to the mun. Please please please make your own replica, or commission someone to make you one otherwise, creative criticism or GTFO!

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I already asked nicely. So stop complaining about my complaining, you're yourself not following what you said. You're not posting any creative criticism, nor anything useful. You yourself said what one should do in that case. So do it.

In the meantime, further proof that it looks better without the reds:

screenshot1371.png

I'd appreciate if this was made official, my method causes the chutes to lose their stripes. Also, I'm testing a version with red parts on the lower stages replaced with gray. What's nice about those "fragmented" textures is that replacing colors on the parts is trivial (though it does have side effects).

Oh, and it turned out that reflection plugin bogs down my performance with this rocket. It freezes up for a while on each environment map update, and generally is laggy. I imagine this has to do with the way the parts are textured.

Edited by Guest
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I have a question I am only getting to around 17km on the first stage does this seem low in comparison with the real rocket which had a 67 km burnout on the first stage so if you do a comparison, thats if my math adds up should be around 37km or am i totally off here

well, i dont think so.

first of all Kerbin orbital speed is about 3,5 times less than Earth has. Secondly - LEO of real Saturn was a bit above atmosphere on an altitude about 190 km, but Kerbin's low orbit has altitude about 75. And my math gave me a decreasing coefficient for S-IC cut-off about 4....

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Ive removed anything Apollo from FASA including its IVA. I still cannot load the craft files.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3sidip2euezd0ss/KSP.log

Did you remove the LEM or delete the file also ?

EDIT in FASA LEM right below Apollo.

From front page Also if you have FASA pack you must remove LEM and LEM's internal folders from FASA directory. Otherwise you will have unexpected issues.

In FASA/Apollo delete LEM then goto FASA/space delete LM_Interior.

Edited by Mecripp2
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Hi.. I'm having a problem where crew and EVA reports, and all stock science experiments are not available with this mod installed. I've just started a new career mode and all science is available as per normal, but when I add the OLDD folder none of the experiments / reports are on the GUI. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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Alright folks ...

I'm going to reopen this thread now, but first I'd like to remind everyone of our [thread=30064]Community Rules[/thread]. If you feel a thread is getting out of hand, or a particular post is causing trouble, please do report it and do not retaliate with your own version. It will affect you just as well.

That said, I'd rather not see this thread causing yet more trouble after I reopen it. Suffice to say, this post serves as a public warning and we will take action if you ignore it as such.

FEichinger

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I already asked nicely. So stop complaining about my complaining, you're yourself not following what you said. You're not posting any creative criticism, nor anything useful. You yourself said what one should do in that case. So do it.

In the meantime, further proof that it looks better without the reds:

http://s30.postimg.org/62qisrkgh/screenshot1371.png

I'd appreciate if this was made official, my method causes the chutes to lose their stripes. Also, I'm testing a version with red parts on the lower stages replaced with gray. What's nice about those "fragmented" textures is that replacing colors on the parts is trivial (though it does have side effects).

Oh, and it turned out that reflection plugin bogs down my performance with this rocket. It freezes up for a while on each environment map update, and generally is laggy. I imagine this has to do with the way the parts are textured.

Agreed. Sad that there's still no 100% accurate Saturn V mod out there. If I ever become better at texturing and modeling, I would make a Saturn V that's as accurate as possible and always take requests from people pointing out realism issues.

Edited by mythbusters844
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Ive removed the LEM and its interior from FASA. Still cant load the OLDD craft files. Again if theres a stock part in the craft maybe?

Also.. a few other inquiries while im at it. Is the rocket and LES system FAR compatible? I tried a pad abort and the capsule did 180 and started burning toward the ground at about 100m. Though this may have been from the canards so is this intended behavior? Because I didn't really come close to the ground before I was able to activate the chutes. Which brings me to my next question..

RealChute compatibility?

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Nitpicking post here. Please do not be offended, this is supposed to be constructive criticism to make a really really good mod pack even better.

The most important part this pack is missing now are the two Saturn IVB Auxiliary Propulsion System pods. The current S-IVB ullage motor setup, angled at 45° is wrong.

cssaturn_aps_diagram.gif

The two APS pods were used as both separation/ullage motors and RCS for roll and rotation control of the S-IVB stack. Although these were small liquid engines with their own propellant tanks, in KSP, the best way to simulate the APS would be to combine a small SRB pointed down (for ullage) with an RCS (for roll, yaw and pitch only) in the same pod.

Nothing was angled at 45° because that wouldn't have made sense when the S-IVB was on top of a Saturn 1B instead of a Saturn V, and right now the S-IVB is severely lacking its own RCS.

On another note, I'm absolutely loving the Saturn IC double-stage separation with the interstage carrying its own 8 separation rockets. It's absolutely gorgeous to watch!

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Hi.. I'm having a problem where crew and EVA reports, and all stock science experiments are not available with this mod installed. I've just started a new career mode and all science is available as per normal, but when I add the OLDD folder none of the experiments / reports are on the GUI. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Yes, same here. I was wondering if it was a problem with this pack or a conflict with something else.

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Nitpicking post here. Please do not be offended, this is supposed to be constructive criticism to make a really really good mod pack even better.

The most important part this pack is missing now are the two Saturn IVB Auxiliary Propulsion System pods. The current S-IVB ullage motor setup, angled at 45° is wrong.

http://www.spaceaholic.com/csimages/cssaturn_aps_diagram.gif

The two APS pods were used as both separation/ullage motors and RCS for roll and rotation control of the S-IVB stack. Although these were small liquid engines with their own propellant tanks, in KSP, the best way to simulate the APS would be to combine a small SRB pointed down (for ullage) with an RCS (for roll, yaw and pitch only) in the same pod.

Nothing was angled at 45° because that wouldn't have made sense when the S-IVB was on top of a Saturn 1B instead of a Saturn V, and right now the S-IVB is severely lacking its own RCS.

A small correction here. Nothing was angled 45 degrees because by the time APS fired, it wasn't anywhere near S-II. It wasn't used as a separation motor at all, the first ullage burn was provided by 3 angled solids. The APS re-started the S-IVB for TLI, and later provided the impulse to slingshot it around the Moon and into solar orbit, or crash it into the Moon. I agree that it would be nice to have it on this version. While FASA has it's own APS, it's rather problematic to attach on this Saturn V.

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Ive removed the LEM and its interior from FASA. Still cant load the OLDD craft files. Again if theres a stock part in the craft maybe?

Also.. a few other inquiries while im at it. Is the rocket and LES system FAR compatible? I tried a pad abort and the capsule did 180 and started burning toward the ground at about 100m. Though this may have been from the canards so is this intended behavior? Because I didn't really come close to the ground before I was able to activate the chutes. Which brings me to my next question..

RealChute compatibility?

oh ya. seems there still remains my old CSM docking device in FASA. it must be removed too...

i have FASA installed and didnt have any problems

A small correction here. Nothing was angled 45 degrees because by the time APS fired, it wasn't anywhere near S-II. It wasn't used as a separation motor at all, the first ullage burn was provided by 3 angled solids. The APS re-started the S-IVB for TLI, and later provided the impulse to slingshot it around the Moon and into solar orbit, or crash it into the Moon. I agree that it would be nice to have it on this version. While FASA has it's own APS, it's rather problematic to attach on this Saturn V.

Well. this devices can be separate but how to use it? I dont know the way how to activate auxiliary engines before the ignition of main one. also i performed tests and with RCS onboard S-IVB becomes very manoeuvrable. But as i know S-IVB was very clumsy and slow device.

In OLDD? No that is untouched. Are the craft files using any parts that are not supplied in the download? Stock struts for instance?

craft files contains only OLDD and stock units.

Edited by DennyTX
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