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Component Space Shuttle - dev thread [IMG heavy!]


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Ironically both have been worked on by the same Config Modder, I have not played with CSS since 23.5 but experienced the same issues. The Buran all around was far easier to fly, had a much lower part count and external dependency, I also ran into the same issues with not being able to "control from here" on the dock port or get it to connect to any of the universal ports, always bounced off.

However, the model was extraordinary and even with all it's issues looked wonderful docked to the Mir or ISS and was fundamental in the construction of said ISS. I really hope that Dragon and a modeler can put this lovely thing back into the game. Hopefully with far fewer parts and less 3rd party dependencies. :wink:

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Well a lot of differences, CSS has a better IVA and is NASAs shuttle. I don't know why you have trouble docking with it though?

I am very aware of the aesthetic differences. My question is about the differences in flight, part count, memory usage, and plugin reliability. If Dragon coukd integrate what makes the Buran fly so well and user friendly to the CSS then this is a hit. Because like you said the IVA and overall appearance is much better.

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I am very aware of the aesthetic differences. My question is about the differences in flight, part count, memory usage, and plugin reliability. If Dragon coukd integrate what makes the Buran fly so well and user friendly to the CSS then this is a hit. Because like you said the IVA and overall appearance is much better.

I think he just needs to ask people, the trouble is very few people know of this great mod. Im sure lots would help

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I am very aware of the aesthetic differences. My question is about the differences in flight, part count, memory usage, and plugin reliability. If Dragon coukd integrate what makes the Buran fly so well and user friendly to the CSS then this is a hit. Because like you said the IVA and overall appearance is much better.

CSS is different than Buran, most notably it's RCS system is different (Buran's RCS is a little unrealistic, due to the problems with docking it had otherwise). It flies as well as it can, you can trim it using monoprop (assuming you have any left), but there's not much I can do.

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CSS is different than Buran, most notably it's RCS system is different (Buran's RCS is a little unrealistic, due to the problems with docking it had otherwise). It flies as well as it can, you can trim it using monoprop (assuming you have any left), but there's not much I can do.

There is nothing about the Buran you can integrate into CSS? The way the rcs works, the aerodynamics, the airlock etc.?Why does the Buran work without the plugins?

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Nope, nothing. I've tried, CSS is already based on Buran. RCS would need remodelling the Shuttle. Aerodynamics are as good as they can get. Plugins are related to how Shuttle is built (Buran has inline engines, for example, while Shuttle needs gimbal trimming).

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Damn! Well then please post the issues to the community. I mean you have taken it as far as it can go. You said you are willing to do the config stuff. I know there are people who are good with unity and people who are good with modeling who would be willing to help. This is something screaming for community support.

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I'm a bit buried with my own too many projects, but if you come up with any smaller 'one day of modelling' or 'I wish someone would move this bit around or adjust the center of lift in Unity' projects, shout at me and I'll see what I can do. Taking on a complete model or texture overhaul would be a bit much now. That said - NASA makes several shuttle 3d models available on their website for free... (2 of them are even textured) at http://nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/models . I haven't imported them to look at the topology or tri counts, but if they're reasonably good it wouldn't be hard for someone to cut that model up and run it through Unity... if a completely new model was necessary.

For me, the biggest liability this mod has is the high plugin count. I looked at this shuttle a few months ago (back when I actually played KSP instead of spending all of my time just modding for it. :P) and decided against downloading it because of the required plugin list. Are all of the requirements really requirements?

Do the engine gimbal settings need to change in flight, or does it just get set to a certain angle and left that way? I'll download the ship and play with it a little. It seems like it would be possible to remodel the engines with the thrust transform adjusted by the correct angle in relationship to the attach node. It would be VERY important to put the engines on with the right side up... but it would work without a plugin, assuming the transform doesn't need to move? Actually, I might be able to animate the thrust transform - I've never tried - to allow gimbal adjustment with an animation. If I made a set of main and oms engines that didn't need a gimbal plugin and that worked with the stock particles and gave them to you do distribute with the main download- thus elminating Dtobi and Sarbian's plugins, would that be helpful to you, Dragon01?

I also, personally, would happily trade away HoneyFox's engine trust plugin for SRB's that have a constant thrust that averages out to a level that gives the same payload lifting performance, even though the second by second thrust wouldn't be accurate. But it's your mod - if you think the realistic booster profile is important, I'm not going to argue with you. But for my hard-drive space, I wish this was optional?

Could it work with the stock RCS module? And could it work with a custom parachute that used the stock module, to eliminate those plugins as well? I'm assuming that Lazor is powering the arm?

Hmmm. Without looking at the licenses of all of the plugins... I wonder if you could convince someone who was a solid c# coder to cut and paste just the bits you're using from all of the absolutely essential mods into a single plugin - so you could include just one plugin in your download and be set (with proper credit to original authors of course!)? Then if people want upgraded particles or other effects, they could add additional packages, but at least they could get into the mod with lower overhead, and there would be fewer things to have to count on people recompiling every update.

As to those that mention the atmospheric control or docking being difficult -I just want to remind them the shuttle isn't an easy thing to fly and the strength of this mod is faithfulness to the original. So I think it SHOULD be a challenge to land and dock it. The shuttle is a beast in atmospheric flight - and docking operations take hours and days and both of those operations are heavily assisted by computers that keep everything in balance.

None of that is meant to be critical of your work so far - from everything I'm seeing in the thread the thing looks awesome and I WILL make time to download all of the plugins and play with this sometime soon... and again, if there are smaller jobs like engines or parachutes or fiddling with Unity stuff, don't hesitate to ask.

Art

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For me, the biggest liability this mod has is the high plugin count. I looked at this shuttle a few months ago (back when I actually played KSP instead of spending all of my time just modding for it. :P) and decided against downloading it because of the required plugin list. Are all of the requirements really requirements?

See, I had that same thought.. I downloaded it just because I wanted to see and as long as you only install the absolutely necessary bits (i.e the bits that actually make the Shuttle), it works fine. For instance, I have no Romfarer, ModuleRCSFX, RealChutes or EngineThrustController and got it it to a decent 90km orbit, even with FAR installed. Simply didn''t use the SRBs provided (I used some of KWRs) and got my own main tank (albeit from the SSE mod which is awesome enough to not have as just a dependency). Firespitter and Smokescreen you should have anyway and that's about it.. Admittedly, I haven't landed it yet so no doubt the RealChutes mod will come in handy then, but I don't know yet.

C9pGQP1.jpg

C5PCVz7.jpg

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Space Shuttle Engines by Dtobi: Needed for the SSMEs and OMS engines

Engine Thrust Controller by HoneyFox: Not really needed, used for the SRBs but it's a bit annoying

Romfarer's Lazor System, or any "lite" pack with his plugin: Only used for the arm

Smokescreen by Sarbian: Not even used anymore

Firespitter by Snjo: Cargobay animations and sounds, landing gear sounds

ModuleRCSFX by Ialdabaoth: Used to get the shuttle to roll with RCS

RealChutes by StupidChris: Only for the craft file, not needed

I think the best thing Art could do is maybe retexture it a bit, that model is from about .14/15!!!

Edited by montyben101
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OK, I'm ditching the Romfarer, Smokescreen and ModuleRCSFX. Roll control has been added for stock RCS, I decided ditch the "new" booster and Sirkut is making it so InfernalRobotics can handle the arm. The next release will have things cleaned up a lot, possibly also an RSS config.

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If you can give me time till end of october I will send you the airlock. I got small help from noonespecial. A tutorial about UV mapping. So I will send you the airlock before end of october. I downloaded some Maya bonus tools which includes some nice new tool for UVs so it starting to be better.

And btw during summer when I had a few times like fock it this UVs, I did some modeling of a shuttle. Completely new model. Will post you pic later.

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if you can give me time till end of october i will send you the airlock. I got small help from noonespecial. A tutorial about uv mapping. So i will send you the airlock before end of october. I downloaded some maya bonus tools which includes some nice new tool for uvs so it starting to be better.

And btw during summer when i had a few times like fock it this uvs, i did some modeling of a shuttle. Completely new model. Will post you pic later.

:o OMG NEW MODEL PICS PLEASE!!!

caps

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I have CSS shuttle ready for Real Solar System. Parameters are form wiki, but you must lauching it from runway, because it weights 2,000 tons and lauchpad exploding on launch ! It's working with FAR. Can I link it there ? Sorry for English.

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I have CSS shuttle ready for Real Solar System. Parameters are form wiki, but you must lauching it from runway, because it weights 2,000 tons and lauchpad exploding on launch ! It's working with FAR. Can I link it there ? Sorry for English.

Actually the fasa launch clamps are waht make the launch pad explode. If you switch out the stock clamps the pad wont explode.

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Actually the fasa launch clamps are waht make the launch pad explode. If you switch out the stock clamps the pad wont explode.

Don't know what you are doing Wrong But, I use both clamps and build some big Rockets and haven't had a problem with pad explode as long as you get the rocket or what ever off the pad alittle.

screenshot3.png

Thats just over 2000 tons and FASA Clamps

Edited by Mecripp2
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I have CSS shuttle ready for Real Solar System. Parameters are form wiki, but you must lauching it from runway, because it weights 2,000 tons and lauchpad exploding on launch ! It's working with FAR. Can I link it there ? Sorry for English.

PM me, somehow, I find it unlikely that it's actually "up to standard". Did you rescale it? Does it fly like the real thing? Are all fuel values (including RCS propellant) correct? Is the COM correct? The Shuttle is a peculiar thing, making it properly support RSS is hard, and I'm not settling for anything less.

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Don't know what you are doing Wrong But, I use both clamps and build some big Rockets and haven't had a problem with pad explode as long as you get the rocket or what ever off the pad alittle.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/screenshot3.png

Thats just over 2000 tons and FASA Clamps

Wow then I don't know. When ever I load the stock saturn V and do raise the engines up so they don't touch the pad explodes.

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It likely needs to be rebuilt for 0.25... I'll get to that, eventually, but I'm a bit busy at the moment. That said, with the new InfernalRobotics module being announced, I'm definitely resuming work on this.

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It likely needs to be rebuilt for 0.25... I'll get to that, eventually, but I'm a bit busy at the moment. That said, with the new InfernalRobotics module being announced, I'm definitely resuming work on this.

That is awesome to hear Dragon! Absolutely love the CSS. It might benefit from texture reduction though, seeing as the game tends to lag a bit more when using the CSS parts, compared to other parts.

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