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mr_yogurt

After what milestone should you be able to call yourself an expert at this game?

What defines an Expert?  

  1. 1. What defines an Expert?

    • If you can reach Duna and return
      56
    • If you can make an SSTO
      22
    • If you can make a trip to Tylo, land, and return
      77
    • If you can land on Eve and return
      123
    • None of those. You must do something HARDERZ!
      100


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Posted in the wrong place

Edited by Daveroski

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When you block out the navball and numbers and navigate by the background stars and does the calculations in the head with no pen and paper. :D

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Land on Jool AND RETURN. I've seen it be done before. Somewhere.

Probably using mods. Landing on Jool and returning stock requires something like 50 km/s of Delta-V or more, and most of it can't be nuclear or ion.

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I actually have a scale of KSP mastery I cooked up a while back, based on the Dwarf Fortress skill level system..

The only way you could do that is with magma powered rockets.

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You have to be named "Scott Manley"

Even Scott has admitted that he's not the best KSP player out there by a long shot. Easily one of the most influential, and very good at orbital mechanics, but he frequently acknowledges that his skills at things like landing and docking are under par.

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Where is "All of the above"?

By being a sandbox, you can never be an expert at KSP. You can be an expert at certain things, but not all, ever. If you can land on Eve and Tylo and return (manned, duh), then you are an expert at planetary landing. If you can dock two asteroids together actually using docking ports, then I think we can call you an expert at docking. If you can do a gravity assist off Tylo leaving Jool and get into Munar orbit with less than 20 m/s if mid-course corrections (not including Joolian ejection burn and Munar circularization burn), you are probably an expert at interplanetary navigation. I think you get the point.

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None listed. I consider the land and return from everywhere to be expert level, and landing and returning from everywhere with one mission to be master level.

I rank myself as Upper-intermediate. I've gotten to half the planets/moons, but there's still a lot of work to do.

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I've never used the Quicksave/Load feature, partly because I forgot the keys.

Still, only reversions done are revert to launch/assembly. All the rest is hopes and skills.

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It depends on what you mean by "expert". A lot of the ideas I see getting tossed about are very difficult challenges, if not absurdly so. To me, an "expert" is simply someone who knows how everything works, whether or not they can actually pull it off themselves.

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Well, spaceplanes are easy for me, interplanetary transfers are super easy, too (get out there and do a few orbits around the star, I can't be bothered to watch for the launch windows and that shiz), munar landings are a breeze for me, my Duna landing was "sheesh, all that hard work for that?", I tdid an oversized Dres mission with a science lab and everything and it turned out to have one biome and I still think I'm a total N00b at the game. I have yet to land on Eve and return.

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I actually have a scale of KSP mastery I cooked up a while back, based on the Dwarf Fortress skill level system.

Rank 15: Dabbling Player

Notes: Brand new to the game. Don't know anything about anything yet. At this point, getting the capsule to land safely after you've ignited the engines is a huge achievement.

Rank 14: Novice Player

Notes: At this point, you can usually salvage the command pod without too much trouble when things go wrong. And things still go wrong a lot.

Rank 13: Adequate Player

Notes: At last you can handle a sub-orbital hop and live to tell about it! Still having some problems with getting to orbit, but baby steps and all that.

Rank 12: Competent Player

Notes: Once you've successfully attained orbit, you can be called competent. It's not exactly an irrelevant accomplishment!

Rank 11: Skilled Player

Notes: By this point, you've started experimenting with getting more fuel into orbit, and are working on your orbital mechanics. Launches should start feeling a lot more smooth.

Rank 10: Proficient Player

Notes: This rank is notable for being able to make a proper Munar or Minmus encounter. Possibly not getting BACK from it safely, but you can't be expected to get everything right away.

Rank 9: Talented Player

Notes: You're good enough now that you can get out to the Mun, get into a stable orbit around it, and maybe even land... sorta. Crashing still counts as landing, right?

Rank 8: Adept Player

Notes: It takes some finnangeling, but you've got this whole "land on another celestial body" thing down now! Getting off it isn't too hard either, as it turns out, and getting back to Kerbin... well, that's doable.

Rank 7: Expert Player

Notes: Refining your techniques, you're able to get out to the Mun or Minmus efficiently, circularize properly, and make an Apollo-style landing without too much of a headache. Getting back from either body is no problem.

Rank 6: Professional Player

Notes: Getting to orbit isn't a problem, and the Kerbin system bends to your will (ie. you can get anywhere in it and do anything in it without problems). Interplanetary operations and more complex orbital operations might still be a bit hard, though...

Rank 5: Accomplished Player

Notes: At last, the art of interplanetary missions! It's a bit rough just now, and you're wasting a lot of delta-V getting things done, but you get the gist of how it's done now... mostly. At least you can get to other planets and stay around them.

Rank 4: Great Player

Notes: Your interplanetary technique has gotten better! Far less wasted fuel now, and landing is no problem on any of the bodies (except maybe Tylo; hardly anyone can handle that even at this stage of skill!). Getting back to Kerbin is generally doable, as long as you have enough fuel.

Rank 3: Master Player

Notes: Functionally speaking, you can get anywhere in the KSP solar system. Likely some things are still quite challenging (like getting on and off Tylo, or Eve), but overall you have a solid grasp of the game. Likely you have some pretty glaring weak points in your skillset in spite of that.

Rank 2: High Master Player

Notes: Certain aspects of the game can still trip you up (probably spaceplanes and/or docking; most have problems with one or the other), but other than that you have the game mastered and are thoroughly capable of just about any task you can think up. You may well quickload a few times during not-quite-routine missions, but usually you don't need that unless you're trying to get an absolutely perfect maneuver done.

Rank 1: Grand Master Player

Notes: Not much about KSP still flummoxes you. Orbital maneuvers are easy, getting to orbit is easy, missions almost always go off without a hitch, etc. Maybe some reliance on quicksaving and quickloading, but it's not really necessary for you.

Rank A: Legendary Player

Notes: Absolutely nothing is challenging to you about Kerbal Space Program. Getting to orbit is an afterthought. Planning missions is relatively quick and painless, and always works out right. Quicksave and quickload are completely unnecessary outside of bug avoidance. You are one with the Kerbal Space Program.

Rank S: Ultimate Player

Notes: You're taking things above and beyond the norm. Even the legendary players are awestruck by your skill. Challenges on the forums and Reddit don't even faze you. Complex mega-missions like grand tours are a breeze. Very few players ever reach this level of skill.

So going by those titles, I guess a player hits Expert level when they're able to run missions in the Kerbin system without problems.

WOOOO Rank 3! Although docking isn't that hard for me anymore, i was surprised to see it unmastered all the way down to rank 2

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-snip-

Rank 2: High Master Player

Notes: Certain aspects of the game can still trip you up (probably spaceplanes and/or docking; most have problems with one or the other), but other than that you have the game mastered and are thoroughly capable of just about any task you can think up. You may well quickload a few times during not-quite-routine missions, but usually you don't need that unless you're trying to get an absolutely perfect maneuver done.

-snip-

Yay I'm a High master player! My only flaw is Moho. Never been able to land there. I mean, I could, I just need to try harder.

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Rank 12: Competent Player

Notes: Once you've successfully attained orbit, you can be called competent. It's not exactly an irrelevant accomplishment!

Rank 2: High Master Player

Notes: Certain aspects of the game can still trip you up (probably spaceplanes and/or docking; most have problems with one or the other), but other than that you have the game mastered and are thoroughly capable of just about any task you can think up. You may well quickload a few times during not-quite-routine missions, but usually you don't need that unless you're trying to get an absolutely perfect maneuver done.

By that definition I'm a high master player without reality overhaul and a competent player with it! The only problems I still have without it are getting back from eve and forgetting to put stufftm on my vehicles. In reality overhaul I barely manage to get into orbit and didn't manage to return from orbit yet.

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When you have confidence in all of these skills:

  • reach circular kerbin orbit (including equatorial orbits, polar orbits, and inclined orbits) in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform powered landings on both atmospheric and non-atmospheric bodies in a fuel-efficient manner
  • redezvous with another craft in a highly eccentric and relatively inclined orbit in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform interplanetary burns to both the outer (duna - eeloo) and inner (eve - moho) planets in a fuel-efficient manner

any reliance on mechjeb for any of the above skills immediately invalidates your "expertise" IMO

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When you have confidence in all of these skills:

  • reach circular kerbin orbit (including equatorial orbits, polar orbits, and inclined orbits) in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform powered landings on both atmospheric and non-atmospheric bodies in a fuel-efficient manner
  • redezvous with another craft in a highly eccentric and relatively inclined orbit in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform interplanetary burns to both the outer (duna - eeloo) and inner (eve - moho) planets in a fuel-efficient manner

any reliance on mechjeb for any of the above skills immediately invalidates your "expertise" IMO

If it were a few years ago I'd agree. Been playing since 0.9. If I wasn't a better pilot than MJ I'd use it. Just so I don't have to babysit every launch

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When you have confidence in all of these skills:

  • reach circular kerbin orbit (including equatorial orbits, polar orbits, and inclined orbits) in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform powered landings on both atmospheric and non-atmospheric bodies in a fuel-efficient manner
  • redezvous with another craft in a highly eccentric and relatively inclined orbit in a fuel-efficient manner
  • perform interplanetary burns to both the outer (duna - eeloo) and inner (eve - moho) planets in a fuel-efficient manner

any reliance on mechjeb for any of the above skills immediately invalidates your "expertise" IMO

I was doing all of that before I installed MJ... MJ to me is more of a time-saver. As said above, after playing for a long while, it's nice to not have to babysit as heavily.

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I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that we probably shouldn't discuss the validity of others' achievements solely on whether or not they used a mod. Such discussions tend to lead to the death of threads.

I'd consider an "expert" player anyone who could reliably get desired payloads where they wanted them, anywhere in the Kerbol system, with reasonable fuel efficiency. This would probably include rendezvous/docking skills, but not necessarily spaceplanes.

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I consider an expert anybody who:

Can dock within a good amount of time

Can efficiently run several missions at the same time

Knows the principles of D/V and TWR

Understands orbital maneuvers

Can build intermediate level crafts of all types

I am by no means an "expert" by anybody's reckoning.

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It seems like a really hard thing to judge, I mean my friend only just got into KSP and it's apparent that there is a big gap between both me and him, yet I'm not sure I would consider myself even experienced as there are planets I have not even been to let alone returned from. Also the most impressive thing to me so far is still katateochi's constellation mission just because of the amount of immense detail put into the mission and the creation of the spacecraft. Most of it relies on mods but it remains impossible in the vanilla game so it remains impressive to me.

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The title "Expert" is earned when you create something amazing.

I, for one, proved that digital logic could indeed be simulated in KSP without any mods nor config changes.

I'm bringing back an even more amazing innovation this May.

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When you evolve into Scott Manly.

it has only been scientifically recorded to have happened once so far to a man named Scott Manly.

Edited by KissSh0t
sperring

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