[Ongoing Dev] [0.23.5] Modular Kolonization System v0.16 (RELEASE) [05-10-2014]

[RoverDude]

Just downloaded to test it out after testing a bug for another mod, just wondering, have you totally changed your file structure? I just downloaded the current dropbox version to compare to the github version and the structures are a LOT more organised on github!! haha, also probably a good idea to tell everyone to deleted their old umbra folder before installation if it has all changed

Yep, folder structure has totally changed to the pre-release format Folks with the older version now get two part sets, since I did not want to trash saves. Folks will of course want to clear all of this out when it goes release.

[RoverDude]

First of all, thank you for this mod, I'm really looking forward to trying it in practice.

Just one question though: I'm planning to kolonize Laythe, and if I calculate it correctly, given that there is an unlimited supply of water and oxygen on Laythe, the one resource that my colony would need to start producing a food surplus (my ultimate goal for this colony) is... carbon dioxide. However absurd that might sound, it seems that my colony is going to have a carbon dioxide deficit. Would you be willing to provide us with some way to either extract carbon dioxide from atmosphere or produce it locally (by burning coal I'd assume, perhaps a conventional power plant/heating center)?

The BioLab does exactly this With that and the water purifier from the Terraformer module, you'd be in excellent shape (it was added specifically to cover this instance). Not that right now, you still won't be able to get any extra water from Laythe - have not yet adjusted the Kethane config to reflect that.

[RoverDude]

The PDU takes ~50 days or so to come online with basic construction at 150% efficiency, and in the meantime I need 3-5 more PDUs worth of batteries to get through the night without cheating past via warp, so...

I guess what I hope to develop a sense of for the sake of my planing process is: How exactly are PDUs expected to fit within the energy ballance framework? Particularly within the boot-strap, multi-phase development philosophy that permeates the mod.

If PDUs are intended to act as primary energy supplies across the board rather than supplements to solar, then they're completely useless to me, really. With solar being ignored or marginalized, then the battery capacity has no reason to be there (since it's not intended to be used) and in terms of launch mass a NFP or KSPI nuclear reactor+10 years fuel is going to provide much better value than pre-loading a PDU with construction parts (and not penalize overall base efficiency in the process).

The PDU can operate at 50% capacity (basically the same as about 10 RTG's) without crew and without it's generator active. So you can bootstrap with a PDU and some supplemental solar arrays. You'll also want battery reserves for things that are more spikey, like drilling for resources, etc.

Power wise, we'll call 5,000 ElectricCharge per hour a 'Power Unit'. All MKS modules use between one and four power units per hour. So a module's batteries can keep it online for an extra 15 minutes to two hours, and a PDU can extend this another 3-12 hours depending on the generator's draw. So with some good balancing, you just need enough solar to rejuvenate the various battery components (and we're talking 100K+) which can be enough to handle a generator or two in the night cycle.

So as a yardstick, A PDU without constructionParts (i.e. bootstrap mode) should have sufficient power, without solar panels, to keep a ColonyHub and active ConstructionHub rolling

Personally, I tend to really optimize where I place crew, and which modules I have active (which is part of the intent with MKS - it makes these details important).

My plan for this weekend is to redo two reference missions - one to the Mun, and one to Duna - and provide the loadout for both (along with new screenshots and possibly some video) for the tutorials.

[RoverDude]

I also see what the issue of heavy consumption likely is while bootstrapping... Smart Kerbals increase efficiency, which increases power consumption. So, three options:

1. Send stupid Kerbals in your poineer mission

2. Send the first mission unmanned (slower)

3. I can add an option to enable a 'Governor' that caps modules at 100% to aid in managing power consumption. This is more relevant for smaller Kolonies since as they get past the first few modules, it's pretty easy to just move your Kerbals around.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, that's a shame.

I think it just identifies parts with crew capacities with its cfgs right now. I may try to do it by defining specific parts in a new cfg. Otherwise the TAC conversion itself is done via a separate resources cfg.

I'll be changing MKS once TAC-LS finalizes on the new units as well

[crimsonknight3]

Going back to my last question about the wireless transfer, do modules that are producing items automatically send them to the large supply tank and then modules that need said items automatically take them from said tank? I am just trying to get this automatic transfer down to a T before attempting to make a manned base in career mode lol

[RoverDude]

Going back to my last question about the wireless transfer, do modules that are producing items automatically send them to the large supply tank and then modules that need said items automatically take them from said tank? I am just trying to get this automatic transfer down to a T before attempting to make a manned base in career mode lol

Depends. ConstructionParts do not flow, so they would not fill the tank automaticallty. Anything that flows will eventually overflow into one of the large supply huts (life support, materials, etc.)

Every tick, the storage huts are going to check and see if they have their minimum threshold (this is pretty light.. like, 1% or so of capacity). If it does not have it in that part, it will try to grab it from nearby vessels.

One thing on my list to test is to make sure this works properly with TAC-LS after really long (multi-year) warps. I have a plan B if it does not (basically an older version of ProxyLogistics that tied more directly into the generators). Will post something a lot more detailed later today/this eve after I run a test. This will consist of a stand-alone supply hut full of stuff, separated from another ship that needs LS and also has a supply hut, to make sure the resources flow properly when focus is lost for long time periods (it works fine when things are active).

- - - Updated - - -

Also looks like the walkthrough is going to be an eight to ten mission long epic

[crimsonknight3]

Depends. ConstructionParts do not flow, so they would not fill the tank automaticallty. Anything that flows will eventually overflow into one of the large supply huts (life support, materials, etc.)

Every tick, the storage huts are going to check and see if they have their minimum threshold (this is pretty light.. like, 1% or so of capacity). If it does not have it in that part, it will try to grab it from nearby vessels.

One thing on my list to test is to make sure this works properly with TAC-LS after really long (multi-year) warps. I have a plan B if it does not (basically an older version of ProxyLogistics that tied more directly into the generators). Will post something a lot more detailed later today/this eve after I run a test. This will consist of a stand-alone supply hut full of stuff, separated from another ship that needs LS and also has a supply hut, to make sure the resources flow properly when focus is lost for long time periods (it works fine when things are active).

- - - Updated - - -

Also looks like the walkthrough is going to be an eight to ten mission long epic

So maybe Ill attach Kas links to all the modules, build a rover purely for transfering construction parts and kas attach the rover to any module that needs them.

Once the wiki pages/tutorial is updated I don't mind proof-reading and advising perhaps on ease of use/understanding

[smunisto]

I'll be changing MKS once TAC-LS finalizes on the new units as well

Shame. Unfortunately this may not happen anytime soon, as Taranis mentioned he will not be available in the coming months(or atleast that is what I remember).

I would look into transforming units to liters and kg, but I guess your resource amounts in MKS are predefined and have other resources with dependencies on them, so a simple conversion of 1 unit of water to xxx units of water might break other things in MKS.

Seems like I will have to postpone the MKS expansion in my save.

[RoverDude]

Shame. Unfortunately this may not happen anytime soon, as Taranis mentioned he will not be available in the coming months(or atleast that is what I remember).

I would look into transforming units to liters and kg, but I guess your resource amounts in MKS are predefined and have other resources with dependencies on them, so a simple conversion of 1 unit of water to xxx units of water might break other things in MKS.

Seems like I will have to postpone the MKS expansion in my save.

If there's an accepted community patch for this let me know and I have no problem including it as an alternate configuratiuon.

(Or, to go one step further, make it an MKS dependency if it is a De Facto config)

[RoverDude]

FYI - on a positive note, I just executed the following test.

Ship 1: Colony Hub + Supply Hut with six Kerbals. One day of life support.

Ship 2: Supply Hut with 1500 units each of food and oxygen.

Warped out and fast forwarded about 100 days - it showed the main ship being out of resources for over 90 days (there was a small amount transferred by ProxyLogistics when I had focus before doing the time warp)

Upon return, TAC-LS caught up, and all Kerbals are alive. 17 units of all resources left in ship 1, and ship 2 was drained down to 885 of each.

So Proxy Logistics is working perfectly even when operating on rails and well past the point where Kerbals would normally die.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh - and the generator governer is now in. If turned on, it limits efficiency to 100% so you don't accidentally drain your power making punch cards or something silly.

[Vim Razz]

The PDU can operate at 50% capacity (basically the same as about 10 RTG's) without crew and without it's generator active.

Hopefully, this bit of information will finally bring my spreadsheet in-line with observations. The discrepancy had been really bugging me.

3. I can add an option to enable a 'Governor' that caps modules at 100% to aid in managing power consumption.

Something like this or a thrust-limiter style toggle/tweekable would be very useful.

I managed to get my toe-hold Duna colony functioning last night by sending my two stupidest kerbals for the job, but doing so causes efficiency headaches in developing the "year two" follow-up mission. (and no, airlocking them is not an option. They're my pioneers!)

Edited to add:

Oh - and the generator governer is now in. If turned on, it limits efficiency to 100% so you don't accidentally drain your power making punch cards or something silly.

Thanks! That should help quite a lot with the issues I've been having. Edited May 9, 2014 by Vim Razz

[RoverDude]

Something like this or a thrust-limiter style toggle/tweekable would be very useful.

Will add that as a future enhancement. Side note - airlocking is always an option

[Boamere]

EEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!

I cannot contain my amazement, as you jut saw.

In your opinion what's wrong with curse? (I voted against it by the way XD)

Edit: disregard this question, I just remembered what happened to minecraft

Edited May 9, 2014 by Boamere

[smunisto]

If there's an accepted community patch for this let me know and I have no problem including it as an alternate configuratiuon.

(Or, to go one step further, make it an MKS dependency if it is a De Facto config)

There actually is. User Coolbeer created such cfg files. They are a few, but the conversion itself is made using MM v.2.x.x's math functions. He is also defining the consumption rates in another file.

This is the only thing for conversion of TACLS to liters and kg. Coolbeer has made a great job of it and as far as I know - everyone who is using a conversion is using this one, since it's the only community patch available

I would appreciate it if you can give your opinion on whether it's possible to include an alternative MKS dl which would work with this TACLS patch.

[RoverDude]

There actually is. User Coolbeer created such cfg files. They are a few, but the conversion itself is made using MM v.2.x.x's math functions. He is also defining the consumption rates in another file.

This is the only thing for conversion of TACLS to liters and kg. Coolbeer has made a great job of it and as far as I know - everyone who is using a conversion is using this one, since it's the only community patch available

I would appreciate it if you can give your opinion on whether it's possible to include an alternative MKS dl which would work with this TACLS patch.

I have no problem at all supporting a secondary download. If you can give me a direct link to Coolbeer's stuff I will plug it in tonight.

[smunisto]

I have no problem at all supporting a secondary download. If you can give me a direct link to Coolbeer's stuff I will plug it in tonight.

Oh..it seems I forgot to add the link to the previous post ^^

Here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec/page25?p=1069843#post1069843

[ExplorerKlatt]

This looks like a really interesting mod. Just one suggestion: add links to Kethane and TACLS release threads so people DL'ing your mod don't have to search the forums to find the dependencies your mod has.

[RoverDude]

This looks like a really interesting mod. Just one suggestion: add links to Kethane and TACLS release threads so people DL'ing your mod don't have to search the forums to find the dependencies your mod has.

Sure, makes sense

[RoverDude]

RED SCARY UPDATE

Two models had to chage.

The Jumbo tubs used in StorageHut_01 - 03 are now narrower so that they fit in the Cargo Transportations Solutions parts (which are awesome for transporting MKS components). This will not break stuff, but it will look weird.

The docking port had a major change.

- It is now radially attachable

- The strengths are slightly tweaked (It's still prettty aggressive, but it's made to work even if your Kerbal is just pushing bits around),

- It is now KAS Grabbable!

- It had it's center point redone to support KAS/Radial attachment

The last bit will cause Bad Things to happen if you grab them. Don't grab them on a base where you don't want to see exploding docking ports.

(Sorry for the changes, just doing another complete shakedown and trying to clear any remaining friction points).

[Garibaldi2257]

So, having concluded 7 station and 4 base tests, I've found no major bugs (my computer seems to ignore most bugs other people run across, so that may not be helpful to you) and the only thing I found with the bases was the power consumption. a base on minmus after the new power consumption rates were executed worked just fine, the mun base still had power issues till I dropped a 2nd pdu. The largest station I had running was 1MM kerbin orbit with over 700 parts and 25 kerbals and it worked great. I'd say all thats left are any bugfixes from other people and final tweaks.

[RoverDude]

So, having concluded 7 station and 4 base tests, I've found no major bugs (my computer seems to ignore most bugs other people run across, so that may not be helpful to you) and the only thing I found with the bases was the power consumption. a base on minmus after the new power consumption rates were executed worked just fine, the mun base still had power issues till I dropped a 2nd pdu. The largest station I had running was 1MM kerbin orbit with over 700 parts and 25 kerbals and it worked great. I'd say all thats left are any bugfixes from other people and final tweaks.

Excellent - Just finished some final Proxy Logistics tweaks on my end, but overall it's looking pretty solid, so I think this may actually be released this week.

[smunisto]

I checked your part cfgs and it seems to me I can't do it alone to be honest. If I simply slap Coolbeer's cfgs on your parts this will unbalance your mod due to the vastly different quantities of oxygen, food and water.

[RoverDude]

No worries - my plan is to have a separate download that rebalances all of the configs appropriately, I just need to play with his configs and make sure I break nothing

[smunisto]

Now, I know I will sound like a greedy *******, but...

Any ETA on that? When you finalize the mod or sooner?

[Garibaldi2257]

the number of launches that station took was amazing, I think it was close to 50. not sure how I had the patience for it. although it was easier than the 65MM orbit I call it Extreme Kerbin Orbit.